Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[N_Watson]

1 minute ago, Deathawaits101 said:

Wonder what the list are?

What lists are you wondering about? 

[Deathawaits101]

35 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

What lists are you wondering about? 

The first two tzeentch list

[N_Watson]

The first one was @hobgoblinclub who just posted above and the 2nd one was Tzaangor Shaman, gaunt Summoner, 30 tzaangor, 15 skyfires, 10 pink horrors, 10 marauders, 20 brimstones. 

 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, hobgoblinclub said:

I've had a great time running a mix of daemons and Arcanites since the book came out. Snagged first place at the Howling at the weekend with this list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy 
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner (120)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
30 x Tzaangors (450)
- 12x Savage Greatblade
- 18x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc(160)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1830 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

Suprisingly, I ended up not summoning my balewind at all! 

Thats actually similar to a list i was thinking minus the enlightened. That list did well then? 

[Deathawaits101]

Was thinking of a list like this for up coming tournament. 

LOC - general 

Fateweaver

Tzaangor Shaman 

Gaunt Summoner 

10x Maurauders 

10x Maurauders 

10x Maurauders 

6x Skyfires 

6x Skyfires 

Vortex.

 

Or 

Fateweaver 

Gaunt Summoner 

Tzaangor Shaman - general 

10x Maurauders 

10x Maurauders 

10x Maurauders 

9x Skyfires 

9x Skyfires 

[Olincay]

I dont see many list with this fella in them, from what i can tell he's the only real combat hero we have. Any particular reason for him not being fielded more often? 

[Tasman]

3 hours ago, Olincay said:

I dont see many list with this fella in them, from what i can tell he's the only real combat hero we have. Any particular reason for him not being fielded more often? 

I don't know. Maybe the 160 pt cost? He's a beast in cc, but with only one spell he's kind of a point sink. I LIKE this guy and still have a hard time working him into my lists.

Nice paint job btw.

[Nico]

I took one to #BLACKOUT. He did ok, even after rolling a couple of untimely double ones.

http://www.tga.community/blogs/entry/1119-kairos-and-fatesworn-friends-go-to-blackout/

[Solaris]

@hobgoblinclub That's almost identical to the list that I am running in a Swedish tournament this upcoming weekend. The differences are that I have inverted the number of Enlightened and Skyfires and brought a horde of Horrors from the get go instead of having a reinforcement pool. I'm a fan of huge amounts of screens  Since I have limited experience playing Tzeentch (1 game, haha), do you have any tips on how to run the army? Any tough matchups? Anything in particular to look out for?

[N_Watson]

@hobgoblinclub I was also at the Howling, but never got a chance to chat to you. Congrats on taking the event. I was there with a now redundant changehost (faq wording of swap at start of hero phase only brought to my attention on the Tuesday before the event, after list submission...) 

Also curious to hear how your games went and what you would change etc. 

[AverageBoss]

7 hours ago, Olincay said:

I dont see many list with this fella in them, from what i can tell he's the only real combat hero we have. Any particular reason for him not being fielded more often? 

I run him quite often. He hits hard in combat, is pretty durable, and has an easier to cast Bolt of Tzeentch (of course I tend to roll 1s on that D6 roll). Great Arcanite hero to stick with foot Tzaangors imo, while the Shaman and Skyfires do their thing. You can give a unit of Pink Horrors the spell to give him an extra horn attack at the start of the game to make him a bit better in combat. The list I have been running since GHB17:
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 4x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 8x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
30 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

 

[Deathawaits101]

@N_Watson

How did you feel Changehost did? 

Or will do in the current Meta ( Not that there is one yet) But how do you think it will stand? 

 

[Malakithe]

13 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I run him quite often. He hits hard in combat, is pretty durable, and has an easier to cast Bolt of Tzeentch (of course I tend to roll 1s on that D6 roll). Great Arcanite hero to stick with foot Tzaangors imo, while the Shaman and Skyfires do their thing. You can give a unit of Pink Horrors the spell to give him an extra horn attack at the start of the game to make him a bit better in combat. The list I have been running since GHB17:
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 4x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 8x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
30 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

 

Haha im working on something similar...still refining it

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Gaunt Summoner (120)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- General
- Artefact: Wicked Shard 
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
30 x Tzaangors (450)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
Units
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
Total: 2000/2000
 

[Malakithe]

Made some changes

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form 
- Artefact: Phantasmal Weapons 
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
Lord Of Change (300)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Gaunt Summoner (120)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
30 x Tzaangors (450)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Units
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
Total: 2000/2000
 

[Cookiez]

15 hours ago, N_Watson said:

now redundant changehost

How, in your opinion, Changehost is redundant? It took 2nd place at Blackout with 5 majors.

I see it that way, that ok, it got nerfed hard, but right now, with poorly written scenarios you can win basically in the first turn in, like, 3 or 4 of them. Add mortal wound output delivered with surgical precision with nearly auto-cast spells (Herald alone can do 2d6 + d3 on  36", rolling and re-rolling with 3 dices (ok, once per game, but still) with +1 or +2, if you use LoC command ability), add versatility, resilience from splitting, low drop amount and you get the best competitive DoT list you can make.

The only downside is the pillow punch it tend to deliver in shooting and combat, but hey, you take 9 Skyfires if you want to to erase a unit or two per turn.

Arcanites, on the other hand, while hit like a freight train and definitely a top faction, have much more problems on the battlefield, like fragile heroes, which, once gone, turn your army into separate blobs not working together at all, or low saves and bravery all across the board. As I see it, Changehost is a more smoother experience, more scenario-oriented while the Arcanites army is a straightforward but synergy-oriented one but not that versatile and once the enemy feeds your big blobs, you can't push the scenario forward.

[N_Watson]

@Deathawaits101 l did ok with it at the event. The fact that you have to swap your units at the start of the hero phase seriously hampers it. The one game I lost at the even was against the 15 skyfire Tzeentch list. 

I think changehost can win games, but other Tzeentch builds can put out better results. 

1 hour ago, Cookiez said:

How, in your opinion, Changehost is redundant? It took 2nd place at Blackout with 5 majors.

I see it that way, that ok, it got nerfed hard, but right now, with poorly written scenarios you can win basically in the first turn in, like, 3 or 4 of them. Add mortal wound output delivered with surgical precision with nearly auto-cast spells (Herald alone can do 2d6 + d3 on  36", rolling and re-rolling with 3 dices (ok, once per game, but still) with +1 or +2, if you use LoC command ability), add versatility, resilience from splitting, low drop amount and you get the best competitive DoT list you can make.

The only downside is the pillow punch it tend to deliver in shooting and combat, but hey, you take 9 Skyfires if you want to to erase a unit or two per turn.

Arcanites, on the other hand, while hit like a freight train and definitely a top faction, have much more problems on the battlefield, like fragile heroes, which, once gone, turn your army into separate blobs not working together at all, or low saves and bravery all across the board. As I see it, Changehost is a more smoother experience, more scenario-oriented while the Arcanites army is a straightforward but synergy-oriented one but not that versatile and once the enemy feeds your big blobs, you can't push the scenario forward.

It's my understanding that the people playing changehost at Blackout were using the changehost swapping at any point in their hero phase. Not doing the swaps before casting any spells. I might be wrong. 

I'm not sure how it automatically wins scenarios. If you are referring to the one where you burn objectives, this was comped in our tournament pack to not burning before turn 3. 

The mortal wound output is pretty much the same as other Tzeentch builds. Everything you stated with the herald can be done outside of the changehost. ?

Horrors splitting can be just as good outside changehost as well. 

There was only a couple of occasions where swapping was beneficial to me and if I was running a non changehost list, I probably wouldn't have been in those situations in the first place.

The only benefit I see is that it is a good way to get low drops, but that's about it. And with Tzeentch, I don't feel you absolutely need to control that decision. 

Just my opinion anyway. 

[wanderingrogue]

Must admit im trying the ogroid, think it has legs

Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Trait: Illusionist 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
Sayl The Faithless (120)
- Allies
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Flails & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Flails & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- War flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- War flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Fatesworn Warband (100)

Reinforcement Points (220)

Total: 1980 / 2000

[Sigwarus]

Why are we still seeing people take the gaunt summoner when the one with familiars are clearly superior? Am I missing something? The disc one have a shorter range hasn't he? 

[Tasman]

I have to admit that's a question I've asked myself more than once.... perhaps it's the only one they own?

[Killamike]

I know I take the regular one so I can put him on the balewind. 

I've always thought his little attendants would stop me being able to place him on a balewind. 

[Tasman]

Not at all. The actual mini is from The Silver Tower and was supposed to be built with them on his base.

I just put them on the bale wind with him. No ones ever complained about it.

[TheOtherJosh]

14 hours ago, wanderingrogue said:

Must admit im trying the ogroid, think it has legs

Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Trait: Illusionist 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
Sayl The Faithless (120)
- Allies
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Flails & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Flails & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- War flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- War flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Fatesworn Warband (100)

Reinforcement Points (220)

Total: 1980 / 2000

How are you using both Sayl and still using Disciples as Allies?

Sayl is from the Pitched Battle Faction : Tamurkhan's Horde (which isn't on any Ally lists) which means you would need to be choosing from a "Grand Alliance:Chaos" Army ... which doesn't get Allies.

If you didn't take Sayl the list would be valid.

Does the Chaos Sorcerer Lord have mark of Tzeentch? 

[Killamike]

1 hour ago, Tasman said:

Not at all. The actual mini is from The Silver Tower and was supposed to be built with them on his base.

I just put them on the bale wind with him. No ones ever complained about it.

Yeah I don't think this is correct. 

Balewind says set the caster up on the top and push all other models 3" away. 

Gaunt summoner says set up the familiars within 1" of him. Essentially making them a unit. 

They were always meant to be on separate bases because events in silver tower summoned 1 of the familiars. 

At a tourney I would fully expect people to pull me up on that.

I am very open to being proven wrong as then I can take them and get +3 casting on my summoner. 

[N_Watson]

I don't see the reason for them to not be allowed on the Balewind. 

I have yet to see an argument for why you can't put a unit of pinks on a Balewind if you can fit them on it. 

It says to move all models more than 3 inches away "if possible to do so" and then place the caster up to. 

The caster is the warscroll. 

[Killamike]

Pinks are all wizards so I could see that being done. 

The gaunt summoner and chaos familiars warscroll always differentiates the models. 

The gaunt summoner is accompanied by 4 familiars. 

The gaunt summoner is a wizard and knows the following spells. 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I don't want to take this unit to an event and be told that my balewind can't be cast by summoner. And currently I'd agree with them.