Nico Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 They increased the new undercosted one. The Familiars aren't a huge buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Nico said: They increased the new undercosted one. The Familiars aren't a huge buff. +1 to cast for free is a solid buff. +4 wounds is also not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 The opponent - not you - gets to choose whether to kill the Familiars or put the wounds on the GS! Will almost always put wounds on the GS itself unless they are worried about the armour debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssharkus Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Olmdebil said: Btw why is the gaunt summoner with familars the Same Cost then the gaunt summoner with out familiars? The one without familiars can have a disc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 i think if you want to summon balewind , familiars are better choice .. familiars give you more sustain. if you dont summon it disc is better for mobility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 There are 3 gs, right? 1+2 have the same spell, but with 1 you get the familiars for free. 3 is with disc, but has a different spell (not the good one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePie Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 So i was thinking about starting a tzeentch army, and after some thinking this is what ive come up with. Allegiance: Tzeentch Lord of Change (300) -Wellspring of Arcane Might Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount (140) -General -Paradoxical Shield -Soulburn Ogroid Thaumathurge (160) The Blue Scribes (120) Gaunt Summoner (120) Gaunt Summoner (120) 10 Kairic Acolytes (100) 10 Kairic Acolytes (100) 10 Kairic Acolytes (100) 10 Chaos Knights (320) 2 Chaos Chariots (160) 2 Chaos Chariots (160) Fatesworn Warband (100) Total 2000/2000 From what ive seen, since gaunt summoners are both mortal and demon, they get one spell from both schools each. So the plan is to have one advance up and use treachorous bond and infernal flames while the other uses bolt of tzeentch and glimpse the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, ThePie said: So i was thinking about starting a tzeentch army, and after some thinking this is what ive come up with. Allegiance: Tzeentch Lord of Change (300) -Wellspring of Arcane Might Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount (140) -General -Paradoxical Shield -Soulburn Ogroid Thaumathurge (160) The Blue Scribes (120) Gaunt Summoner (120) Gaunt Summoner (120) 10 Kairic Acolytes (100) 10 Kairic Acolytes (100) 10 Kairic Acolytes (100) 10 Chaos Knights (320) 2 Chaos Chariots (160) 2 Chaos Chariots (160) Fatesworn Warband (100) Total 2000/2000 From what ive seen, since gaunt summoners are both mortal and demon, they get one spell from both schools each. So the plan is to have one advance up and use treachorous bond and infernal flames while the other uses bolt of tzeentch and glimpse the future. Faction: Grand Alliance Chaos it appears. You're short bodies for battleline if you get a mission that requires large blocks of troops. In small numbers the Acolytes are challenged... not horrible, but they work better at shooting, and being in larger blocks helps. What are the other roles in your Army, and how do the pieces fit together? It seems to be a "run "cheap" battleline and take a bunch of heroes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePie Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 53 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said: Faction: Grand Alliance Chaos it appears. You're short bodies for battleline if you get a mission that requires large blocks of troops. In small numbers the Acolytes are challenged... not horrible, but they work better at shooting, and being in larger blocks helps. What are the other roles in your Army, and how do the pieces fit together? It seems to be a "run "cheap" battleline and take a bunch of heroes". Since the chaos knights, chariots and chaos lord can take mark of tzeentch, they count as tzeentch units so i can run allegiance tzeentch, no? And yes, i run cheap battleline who will mainly shoot at range and protect heroes. Main punch comes from all my magic and my chaos knights/chariots + chaos lord. Having all everything at atleast -1 rend is a huge benefit for just 100 pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 You only get one spell for each Gaunt Summoner, but you can pick it from either lore. Check out page 73 in the DoT book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePie Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 28 minutes ago, Solaris said: You only get one spell for each Gaunt Summoner, but you can pick it from either lore. Check out page 73 in the DoT book. Hmm really? Shame, thought it would work since lore of fate/change said EACH mortal/daemon gets a spell. Well, i guess i can just either make a gaunt summoner my general with arch sorcerer, or replace him with an herald (though having an backup source of infernal flames and being able to generate more destinty dice is nice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratso Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Not sure if this question has been asked yet. Allies can not be used as battleline, that has been made clear, can an allied unit be a general though? I run a pure mortal tzeentch army with all bar 3 units being within the slaves to darkness sub faction. The three Allie units are th gaunt summoner, blue scribe and Fatemaster (380 pts,) However I use the fatemaster as the general. All StD units in the army have mark of Tzeentch. Legal or not legal list in matched play for a 2000pt list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilby Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 15 hours ago, Ratso said: Not sure if this question has been asked yet. Allies can not be used as battleline, that has been made clear, can an allied unit be a general though? I run a pure mortal tzeentch army with all bar 3 units being within the slaves to darkness sub faction. The three Allie units are th gaunt summoner, blue scribe and Fatemaster (380 pts,) However I use the fatemaster as the general. All StD units in the army have mark of Tzeentch. Legal or not legal list in matched play for a 2000pt list? You don't even have to worry about allies if all the StD are all marked as Tzeentch then you can take the Tzeentch allegiance if all models have that keyword (any marked marauders and warriors would count towards battleline) and you can have any of the heroes as your general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 obviously check with TO's but anyone seeing any foreseeable issues of running Magnus the red as a LOC? just so its something different than two birds that look the same (obviously making the magnus WYSIWYG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whorable Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Josh said: obviously check with TO's but anyone seeing any foreseeable issues of running Magnus the red as a LOC? just so its something different than two birds that look the same (obviously making the magnus WYSIWYG) I've often wondered about things such as this. This proxy in particular to me is great because I'm not a huge fan of the LoC model. I mean it's a beautiful model to be sure but it's just not my style I guess. It would be nice and I think really good for the hobby if there was some universal standard TO's went by for rules and matters such as these. Like for example if they could set a general guideline for conversions/proxies that was SOMEWHAT liberal but kept it from getting out of hand, that all TO's more or less abide. Perhaps some kind of third party organizer that would (and I know this is a scary word) monopolize the competitive scene. They could keep track of player stats, player points, meta statistics, etc. this latter statement similar to "em-tee-gee terp 8" I know there's things like this out there, but unless I'm mistaken it hasn't become really a standard norm. It would make things easier for the TO because essentially it would be akin to a restaurant franchise where all the decisions are made already. Anyways, I'm not trying to digress too far from the topic and I apologize if I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whorable Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 On 9/6/2017 at 11:42 AM, Olmdebil said: Asking again cause im working on some liste atm Idea is to Run an fatesworn tzeench list with alot of chaos warrior (1x27 1x9 atleast) Can il bring sayl the faithless as an allie to use his New spell to bring some mobility to my force? Thanks On 9/6/2017 at 11:53 AM, decker_cky said: Nothing allows Sayl to be taken as an ally under any circumstance unless GW FAQs how allies work. I'm wondering why this doesn't work. Sayl is an StD unit and StD units may be allied with DoT. If your concern is that it's Nurgle (which obviously the one faction that can't be taken with StD) Sayl as far as I can tell doesn't have the Nurgle keyword as per https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-tamurkhans-horde.pdf. Is there something else that I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, Whorable said: I'm wondering why this doesn't work. Sayl is an StD unit and StD units may be allied with DoT. If your concern is that it's Nurgle (which obviously the one faction that can't be taken with StD) Sayl as far as I can tell doesn't have the Nurgle keyword as per https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-tamurkhans-horde.pdf. Is there something else that I'm missing? Sayl is not part of the Slaves to Darkness Faction and the Desciples of Tzeentch Faction can only ally with Factions. Instead Sayl is part of the Tamurkhan's Horde Faction. This would mean he can in fact not be chosen as an Ally. There are many more examples of this being an oddity within the game right now. GH2017 does not clarify what the difference is between Factions and Allegiances but there most certainly is a difference based on the rules we do have for Allegiances and Factions & Allies. What it boils down to is that Allied rules are not explained well enough to see the intend behind the design. For example we also do not now how Battalions now interact with Allied point options or how Battalions now interact with Allegiance choices that do not have Allies. Though there are many more questions and they basically all revolve around Faction and Allies vs Allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whorable Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Killax said: Sayl is not part of the Slaves to Darkness Faction and the Desciples of Tzeentch Faction can only ally with Factions. Instead Sayl is part of the Tamurkhan's Horde Faction. GH2017 does not clarify what the difference is between Factions and Allegiances but there most certainly is a difference based on the rules we do have for Allegiances and Factions & Allies. What it boils down to is that Allied rules are not explained well enough to see the intend behind the design. For example we also do not now how Battalions now interact with Allied point options or how Battalions now interact with Allegiance choices that do not have Allies. Thanks for clarifying that. You'd think with GW being such an old gaming company they'd be able to get these rules a little more clear and concise. You don't have these kinds of problems with MTG, why can't GW put that kind of effort into their product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Whorable said: Thanks for clarifying that. You'd think with GW being such an old gaming company they'd be able to get these rules a little more clear and concise. You don't have these kinds of problems with MTG, why can't GW put that kind of effort into their product? Well I think they have put a ton of effort into it. My issue with this problem in particular is that we see a design that matched that of the orginal AoS design (Allegiance is based on Keyword, simple and very clear, no mistake about it) and then we see design that deviates from it for whatever reason. Such as: - Why is Leader another sub-type when Hero is a Keyword that could be used to represent that aswell? - Why is Behemoth another sub-type when Monster is a Keyword that could be used to represent that aswell? - Why is Battleline not a Keyword? Or in other cases (mainly from a narrative standpoint) why is Battleline sometimes X and sometimes isn't? Leading to me questioning why it excists at all. Lastly Allies as a rule is added now and as a rule doesn't incorporate any Keyword inclusion to make a "check" for it, which in turn complicates things with 'Factions' much more as it ever needed to be. In essence I don't understand why GH2017 tries to deviate from the "Keyword system" while this system is actually one of the things they have created in a beautiful way. So basically there is a ton of effort but there are different designers with different mindsets. - One team seems to create the new AoS Warscrolls and content and does this with the Keyword system to continue to keep the game as broad as possible and playable for Open, Narrative and Matched play. - The GH2017 team, now more then ever, seems very focused on Matched play and adds rules that arn't Keyword based which in turn make intention behind their design very unclear because for whatever reason they really want to deviate from the orginal design by adding Leader, Behemoth, Artillery, Battleline, Faction and Allies concepts that when not attached to the Keyword rules do not work well. Back to Tzeentch though! This discussion has a 10+ page on the main Age of Sigmar discussion sub-forum and until the FAQ clears things up we simply can't predict the intend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flindt Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Killax said: Sayl is not part of the Slaves to Darkness Faction and the Desciples of Tzeentch Faction can only ally with Factions. Instead Sayl is part of the Tamurkhan's Horde Faction. This would mean he can in fact not be chosen as an Ally. There are many more examples of this being an oddity within the game right now. GH2017 does not clarify what the difference is between Factions and Allegiances but there most certainly is a difference based on the rules we do have for Allegiances and Factions & Allies. What it boils down to is that Allied rules are not explained well enough to see the intend behind the design. For example we also do not now how Battalions now interact with Allied point options or how Battalions now interact with Allegiance choices that do not have Allies. Though there are many more questions and they basically all revolve around Faction and Allies vs Allegiance. In that case it is strange that you are able to choose Sayl as an ally in Azyr then (along with monsters of Chaos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Azyr is a mess right now. Doesn't it still allow named compendium characters, all of which have been deleted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I think you are all interpreting too much in things. It reminds me of the stupid discussions about the bloodsecrator pre faq. Just ask yourself, what gw intends to do. Sayl has std keyword and therefor it is clear that he is std faction. For gods sake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Louzi said: I think you are all interpreting too much in things. It reminds me of the stupid discussions about the bloodsecrator pre faq. Just ask yourself, what gw intends to do. Sayl has std keyword and therefor it is clear that he is std faction. For gods sake... I'm totally cool with you using House-rules like that but that's currently your opinion not based on anything the GH2017 suggests. Desciples of Tzeentch is a Faction yet none of the units in the Faction have that Keyword. So what your currently suggesting isn't inline with how Factions currently work either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Random question what do people think about using the Magnus the Red model as a Lord of Change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Just now, Fulgrima said: Random question what do people think about using the Magnus the Red model as a Lord of Change? I think it's an excellent idea. He's an awesome model and more than a suitable appearance for a LoC. You might need to modify or work on his equipment as it may not match a chosen set of LoC weapons as WYSIWYG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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