AaronWilson Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 It looks like I'll be heading down to the Throne of Skulls in October at WHW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 What's this about horrors splitting differently now? I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boelimaa Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 it's described in the GHB 2018 under Tzeentch. I cant post it sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilby Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Urauloth said: What's this about horrors splitting differently now? I can't find it. It's described very accurately in the second post down on page 97 of this thread. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cyclop Owl Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Blue Scribe 140 1 Curseling 160 1 Gaunt Summoner 180 1 Ogroid Thaumaturge 180 1 Magister 140 1 Herald of Tzeentch 140 --- 10 Pink Horrors 200 10 Pink Horrors 200 10 Pink Horrors 200 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 --- Soulsnare Shackles 20 Umbral Spellportal 60 Æthervoid pendulum 40 I'm not aiming for a meta-breaking list here, but I'm trying to build something that has as few weaknesses as possible. Here's my train of thoughts: - 30 Pink horrors, just because it's fantastic value (and, you know, casters) - 40 Kairic Acolytes to weather the first charge and strategically block the path towards wizards. - Blue Scribes for a caster heavy army. - 1 Curseling to dispell/recast the enemy's endless spells (in priority) and generally be rather reactive. - 1 Gaunt Summoner. Because, it's still as powerful as ever. - 1 Ogroid to help the front line, and to tarpit with extra pink horrors. - 1 Magister to slow down with Chaos Spawn - 1 Herald of Tzeentch, to get pink fire and to increase chance of casting combos. - Umbral Spellportal just makes sense at this point. - Soulsnare Shackles to level the playing field. Nobody in that army has a high movement, and positioning might get tricky right in the first couple of turns. Please, you know, Ironjawz. - Aethervoid Pendulum. More mortal wounds please, and a potential table control tool. Obviously the portal is a massive combo with pretty much every spell in that list, whether it's Shackles or Pendulum, but also Infernal Flames, Pink Fire or Fold Reality. One interesting way to fully control the board vs aggro armies is Spellportal, then cast Shackles through; finally, cast the Pendulum in a direction that would make the opponent face the choice between mortal wounds and positiong. The pink horrors themselves represent 150 wounds, with a total of about 225. In terms of Blue Points and Brimstone points, I think we're sorted - if the list works the way it's designed, these would replace the dying Acolytes in the later turns. Finally, that's 11 spells attempted minimum per turn, with the possibility of getting a few more through the Herald, the Magister and the Curseling. Could this work, or would it lack some steam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsc Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Is there any way to take a realmgate with your army? Would be nice for a gaunt summoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 If Fatesworn Warband is the way to go do people think a LoC is still worth it? You're not using the Command ability on all the mortal and for the same price you could get 2 GS, Or another mortal wizard & a unit of horrors for a potential of 4 more spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: If Fatesworn Warband is the way to go do people think a LoC is still worth it? You're not using the Command ability on all the mortal and for the same price you could get 2 GS, Or another mortal wizard & a unit of horrors for a potential of 4 more spells. He has a good signature spell, the spell steal on unbound and the high dice double is very strong. For only spell count, the LoC is weak but he has a lot of utility. And I'm not sure how you will get 4 spells with horrors + mortal Wizard when you most likely have used every two spell Wizards you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Well a Curseling can cast two spells + A free Arcane bolt in FSWB + Pink Horror spell. His signature spell is solid but he's a massive point drop at 380. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Ah, okay. I thought the Curseling Ogroid and Gaunt Summoner are more or less save picks for the FSWB. That's why I implied that you would have taken all of them by the time to decide for the LoC/Kairos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cyclop Owl Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Is FSWB even that good? I mean, arcane bolt is not a great spell ATM and there are other ways to cast a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, The Cyclop Owl said: Is FSWB even that good? I mean, arcane bolt is not a great spell ATM and there are other ways to cast a lot. The big help has been the rend and the ability to get an extra save at the cost of a model or two. We don't get access to a lot of rend and it can be a massive pain in the backside without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cyclop Owl Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, CyderPirate said: The big help has been the rend and the ability to get an extra save at the cost of a model or two. We don't get access to a lot of rend and it can be a massive pain in the backside without it. Well, it forces you to remove 1 model (aka 1 wound) from all of your battlelines, so I'd say the value gain on the 6+ invuln save is minimal at best. As for the rend, apart from Ogroid and Tzaangors - who are not being discussed as part of these lists - I don't see what unit actually wants to get to close combat. Tzeentch is designed to ignore armour by casting a dozen of DXs of mortal wound each turn, so I wouldn't care about it too much. Don't get me wrong, I know there were interesting marauder lists in the past, but with their point increase I don't think we'll see those anymore, and when I'm comparing the FSWB lists that are suggested here to the list that I posted, I'm struggling to see the advantage. That being said, a FSWB with a 30 Tzaangors blob and an Ogroid at its core could be fun, I'll play with the concept a little bit; but I really don't think it's the way to go for summoning, it's way too expensive for what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I woldn't run units of 9, Acolytes at 80 point with rend on there shooting isn't actually anything to snifff at. Arcane Bolt isn't a massive factor, but it is another spell per mortal hero each turn which means we can summon something in at the end of every movement phase. Certainly not saying it's the only way to play Tzeentch, but I think it's a reliable way of getting 15ish spells a turn, as well as having a good spread of heroes & battleline troops for objectives as well as heavy MW output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 hours ago, The Cyclop Owl said: Blue Scribe 140 1 Curseling 160 1 Gaunt Summoner 180 1 Ogroid Thaumaturge 180 1 Magister 140 1 Herald of Tzeentch 140 --- 10 Pink Horrors 200 10 Pink Horrors 200 10 Pink Horrors 200 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 10 Kairic Acolytes 80 --- Soulsnare Shackles 20 Umbral Spellportal 60 Æthervoid pendulum 40 I'm not aiming for a meta-breaking list here, but I'm trying to build something that has as few weaknesses as possible. Here's my train of thoughts: - 30 Pink horrors, just because it's fantastic value (and, you know, casters) - 40 Kairic Acolytes to weather the first charge and strategically block the path towards wizards. - Blue Scribes for a caster heavy army. - 1 Curseling to dispell/recast the enemy's endless spells (in priority) and generally be rather reactive. - 1 Gaunt Summoner. Because, it's still as powerful as ever. - 1 Ogroid to help the front line, and to tarpit with extra pink horrors. - 1 Magister to slow down with Chaos Spawn - 1 Herald of Tzeentch, to get pink fire and to increase chance of casting combos. - Umbral Spellportal just makes sense at this point. - Soulsnare Shackles to level the playing field. Nobody in that army has a high movement, and positioning might get tricky right in the first couple of turns. Please, you know, Ironjawz. - Aethervoid Pendulum. More mortal wounds please, and a potential table control tool. Obviously the portal is a massive combo with pretty much every spell in that list, whether it's Shackles or Pendulum, but also Infernal Flames, Pink Fire or Fold Reality. One interesting way to fully control the board vs aggro armies is Spellportal, then cast Shackles through; finally, cast the Pendulum in a direction that would make the opponent face the choice between mortal wounds and positiong. The pink horrors themselves represent 150 wounds, with a total of about 225. In terms of Blue Points and Brimstone points, I think we're sorted - if the list works the way it's designed, these would replace the dying Acolytes in the later turns. Finally, that's 11 spells attempted minimum per turn, with the possibility of getting a few more through the Herald, the Magister and the Curseling. Could this work, or would it lack some steam? Has it been confirmed that you can cast a endless spell through a portal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: Has it been confirmed that you can cast a endless spell through a portal? Well as the visibility and range is determined from the portal, there is nothing that suggests the opposite. So I guess it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cyclop Owl Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: Has it been confirmed that you can cast a endless spell through a portal? Miniwargaming have access to the Malign Sorcery kits and rules, and they've produced battle reports with endless spells going through portals. Not the most official confirmation, but whether on YT, Reddit, here and Dakkadakka there seems to be a strong consensus. As for FSWB, I feel like I need to read the actual rule text at this point, cause I seem to be confused over its effects (I had no idea the rend applied to missile weapons as well). Where can I find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, The Cyclop Owl said: As for FSWB, I feel like I need to read the actual rule text at this point, cause I seem to be confused over its effects (I had no idea the rend applied to missile weapons as well). Where can I find it? It's in the Everchosen Battletome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Yeah, all weapons from the FSWB get -1 rend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, AaronWIlson said: Yeah, all weapons from the FSWB get -1 rend. Well, all that had "-" get -1. Just as clarification for people who don't own the book and might be misslead. ( I guess you wanted to say that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofHokuto Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: I woldn't run units of 9, Acolytes at 80 point with rend on there shooting isn't actually anything to snifff at. Arcane Bolt isn't a massive factor, but it is another spell per mortal hero each turn which means we can summon something in at the end of every movement phase. Certainly not saying it's the only way to play Tzeentch, but I think it's a reliable way of getting 15ish spells a turn, as well as having a good spread of heroes & battleline troops for objectives as well as heavy MW output. Has the rule about battleline units being under strength not counting as battleline been changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Drib said: Well, all that had "-" get -1. Just as clarification for people who don't own the book and might be misslead. ( I guess you wanted to say that) Yeah sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 36 minutes ago, The Cyclop Owl said: Well, it forces you to remove 1 model (aka 1 wound) from all of your battlelines, so I'd say the value gain on the 6+ invuln save is minimal at best. As for the rend, apart from Ogroid and Tzaangors - who are not being discussed as part of these lists - I don't see what unit actually wants to get to close combat. Tzeentch is designed to ignore armour by casting a dozen of DXs of mortal wound each turn, so I wouldn't care about it too much. Don't get me wrong, I know there were interesting marauder lists in the past, but with their point increase I don't think we'll see those anymore, and when I'm comparing the FSWB lists that are suggested here to the list that I posted, I'm struggling to see the advantage. That being said, a FSWB with a 30 Tzaangors blob and an Ogroid at its core could be fun, I'll play with the concept a little bit; but I really don't think it's the way to go for summoning, it's way too expensive for what it does. Ah fair enough, I was just talking generally. I've only really used it with a mostly mortal force. I don't think all of the lists posted so far have been legal for FSWB as horrors and Tzaangors don't have the Mortal keyword. You don't have to drop the model, you just have the option to if you want. I'm not sure on the maths, but I think it works out as a net plus for certain units/sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Battleline rules will come with the GHB, but I guess it will be unchanged. The 6+ save should be ignored unless you have enough battlines or are planning to add 10 Chaos Warriors anyways. But their point costs are very high. And you will need 10 mortal Tzeentch units for the battalion which will already cost a good amount I plan to fill-up with Chaos Spawns to meet the requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Lord of Change - 380 Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch - 180 Magister - 140 Magister - 140 Magister - 140 Orgroid - 180 Curseling - 160 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Pink Horrors - 280 Spell Portal - 60 Fatesworn Warband - 160 This list has 80 points left, you can go for shackles & balewind. It's quite light on the ground, I'd be tempted to drop the LoC change into Blue Scribes + 10 More horrors, leaving you 40 more points for geminoids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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