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Why the hate on alternate game systems?


Lord marcus

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I'm seeking friendly discussion about the relationship between AoS and other games.

I've seen a lot of anger and bashing of other game systems, particularly Kings of war. Why is this?

 

Is it because their hard rank and flank gamers still exist and are using age of Sigmar models in thier games? Or something else?

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3 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

I haven't really seen those threads so I couldn't say.  I do know that the folks who stuck with AoS day 1 suffered through a large amount of antagonism from WHFB and KoW players/converters.  

I was not referencing overt threads, but singular posts in various discussions across tga

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It's a pendulum, when aos was released players got so much hate all over websites like this popped up and become safe havens, now it's proven to be far more popular than they claimed it would be, and in most places over taking 40k in popularity people who play it feel more open about voicing their opinions back towards those who hated on them.

 

It doesn't solve anything but it's hard to help.

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1 minute ago, daedalus81 said:

I haven't really seen those threads so I couldn't say.  I do know that the folks who stuck with AoS day 1 suffered through a large amount of antagonism from WHFB and KoW players/converters.  

This. I don't think it's helpful for this thread to devolve into "they started it!" The fact is, though, that a lot of folks who played WHFB reacted to AoS with incredible vitriol without even giving it a try, and a lot of us who have come to really enjoy AoS are frustrated with that.

Also... at the risk of starting up an argument, I think that WHFB suffered from a broken base. If you don't want to follow the link, that means that the fan community was deeply divided, a "civil war" (or in this case, a seemingly endless series of skirmishes) if you will. My experience of the WHFB community is also that it was competitive to the point that nobody cared about other kinds of play (I was once literally laughed at for suggesting a narrative campaign). The atmosphere of elitism and high-powered play made the game - already quite complex and with a high bar to entry - very hard to get into.

I gotta tell you... sometimes I think that GW knew exactly what they were doing when they blew up the old world and radically changed the system. I think they were trying to break away from their own fanbase and develop a new one.

Anyway... that's the history. Lots of vitriol from an already deeply divided community.

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1 minute ago, Arkiham said:

It's a pendulum, when aos was released players got so much hate all over websites like this popped up and become safe havens, now it's proven to be far more popular than they claimed it would be, and in most places over taking 40k in popularity people who play it feel more open about voicing their opinions back towards those who hated on them.

 

It doesn't solve anything but it's hard to help.

In my community wedidnt hate on those who decided to play AoS, just the game itself. Personally I'm all for playing whatever you want to play, but that's not going to stop me from bemoaning the loss of rank n flank warhammer fantasy.

 

Hence why I switched to the only real rank n flank alternative at the time, kow.

 

2 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

This. I don't think it's helpful for this thread to devolve into "they started it!" The fact is, though, that a lot of folks who played WHFB reacted to AoS with incredible vitriol without even giving it a try, and a lot of us who have come to really enjoy AoS are frustrated with that.

Also... at the risk of starting up an argument, I think that WHFB suffered from a broken base. If you don't want to follow the link, that means that the fan community was deeply divided, a "civil war" (or in this case, a seemingly endless series of skirmishes) if you will. My experience of the WHFB community is also that it was competitive to the point that nobody cared about other kinds of play (I was once literally laughed at for suggesting a narrative campaign). The atmosphere of elitism and high-powered play made the game - already quite complex and with a high bar to entry - very hard to get into.

I gotta tell you... sometimes I think that GW knew exactly what they were doing when they blew up the old world and radically changed the system. I think they were trying to break away from their own fanbase and develop a new one.

Anyway... that's the history. Lots of vitriol from an already deeply divided community.

See, I would be the one to help you organize that narrative campaign. We actually just ran one in our local shop for kings of war. 

 

I do agree the percentage of competitive WHFB players was high. And most of them tend to be generally unwelcoming to a fault.

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I honestly was of the notion that people who play AoS are usually more open minded, due to the fact most of us had to give change a chance and a lot of the rest of us came from different systems in between the transition. 

Kings of war seems ok I just am not a fan of the models myself

 

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1 minute ago, Mohojoe said:

I honestly was of the notion that people who play AoS are usually more open minded, due to the fact most of us had to give change a chance and a lot of the rest of us came from different systems in between the transition. 

Kings of war seems ok I just am not a fan of the models myself

 

See but that's the beauty of kings. It's rank n flank but you can use any models you want provided they are on the correct footprint.

 

Personally I'll use AoS for small skirmishes/ narrative battles.

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As many others, I have seen a lot of, at times quite nasty, vitriol from thos who stuck with whfb and those who went to alternate rank and file systems.

Clearly, that is absolutely no reason at all to react with hate or vitriol of our own. My reaction to such attacks tends to be to point out that and why I prefer AoS and then respectfully bow out of the discussion (easy, as I have yet to get an answer to such posts).

I do, however, have to admit, as someone who is really taken with AoS and wants it to succeed, to have this community as a sort of safespace.

To those who remain with whfb or some alternative system, I wish a good time. The phenomenom is hardly new, when I was looking for wargamers and roleplayers among personal aquaintances at uni, almost all played old/outdated editions exclusively in closed groups with the people they had picked up gaming with in schooltimes.

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1 minute ago, Rogue Explorator said:

As many others, I have seen a lot of, at times quite nasty, vitriol from thos who stuck with whfb and those who went to alternate rank and file systems.

Clearly, that is absolutely no reason at all to react with hate or vitriol of our own. My reaction to such attacks tends to be to point out that and why I prefer AoS and then respectfully bow out of the discussion (easy, as I have yet to get an answer to such posts).

I do, however, have to admit, as someone who is really taken with AoS and wants it to succeed, to have this community as a sort of safespace.

To those who remain with whfb or some alternative system, I wish a good time. The phenomenom is hardly new, when I was looking for wargamers and roleplayers among personal aquaintances at uni, almost all played old/outdated editions exclusively in closed groups with the people they had picked up gaming with in schooltimes.

Your points are dignified and well spoken, sir. 

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Well, as others have said this forum has become kind of a safe haven for AoS players. With all the nerd rage over AoS it feels important for us to keep the AoS colors flying.

Because of that I think that coming on to an AoS forum/"safe haven" and wanting to primary talk about other (non AoS-related) games will be met with ... a lack of interest, at the very least. Mind you, there are plenty of wargaming forums that strives to engage a wider community. This is an AoS forum first and foremost.

Got to ask though; "hate" on alternate game systems? I did a search and in the name of science another one regarding your subject and came up with... nada. Zero. The most "hateful" discussion I could find was a post about Mantic models being lousy. 

Which kind of gets me wondering about the real intention behind a thread like this. 

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People get fanboyish about their hobby. Alot of people who disliked GW's business practices jumped over to KoW. Mantic is a different beast altogether (rollercoaster miniature quality levels aside). Naturally the haters who really buy into Mantic will clash will GW loyalists.

Please note I am a big Kings of War fan (less so Mantic) and a growing AoS fan. I'm not passing judgement on any viewpoint. Personally I think the new trilogy of Fantasy systems (AoS, KoW and T9A) should ensure healthy active communities that aren't hating on each other.

In fact AoS and KoW have got a lot in common - simplified rules with hidden depth and active community participation in balancing. They also both allow new levels of creativity in terms of modelling and setting.

It's ironic there is disdain for AoS on the basis of the basic rules from KoW when it's simplified itself.

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It's hard to point you toward where you can see the vitriol, since the site that had most of it (Warseer.com) pretty much kicked the bucket once or twice this year. The site's attendance went up at the start of the End Times, rose through that whole schpeal, exploded around two Christmases ago (Wow, it's nearly the two year rumor anniversary), and climaxed at the release of AoS. 

It's important to remember that AoS wasn't a good game on release. We can argue this in another thread, but there wasn't the General's Handbook, no points, and some really corny rules (like having a mustache). Everyone was upset at a lack of points ("I get to place all 40,000 points of my collection on the table? Sarcastic WooHoo!"). A lot were upset with the game moving from a rank and flank, a lot were upset with a lack of any "Look Out Sir" save, a lot were upset with the setting being dumped for what we have now (I'm in this camp, and if you keep reading, I'll question how anybody who was in this camp went to The 9th Age). A lot of people didn't like Stormcast (Dubbed "Sigmarines", and I didn't early either).

Combine those facts with internet anonymity and general sarcasm and there were a lot of horrible things said. Worse yet, a lot of people said these things without even playing the game. There would be significantly less frustration if we had the GH on day one.

Kings of War had been there, Warhammer Fantasy's R&F rival. They stood to make bank as a community with the change to AoS. The Ninth Age team took all the community passion and turned it into The Ninth Age, and Kings of War dropped the ball. If those players are butthurt about AoS, they probably played WHF before, and remember the golden years. I wouldn't have a beef unless they're really being jerks.

T9A is where most of the competitive players went (In Europe anyway). I think it's a good game successor to Fantasy, but I have a personal grudge against their lack of making an open world-building community for non-artists. Go over to the forums, and my "Idea for the World" Thread still has the most replies, which I find disappointing, and the lack of fluff disturbs me more than the less-than-filling fluff I get from AoS.

Really, I don't have anything bad to say about KoW or T9A. They're their own fun little games. But as this is an AoS fan forum, I have some choice pieces of vitriol for anti-AoS players looking to talk smack about the game now. The past is the past. I'd rather talk about the now.

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22 minutes ago, Ratatatata said:

Well, as others have said this forum has become kind of a safe haven for AoS players. With all the nerd rage over AoS it feels important for us to keep the AoS colors flying.

Because of that I think that coming on to an AoS forum/"safe haven" and wanting to primary talk about other (non AoS-related) games will be met with ... a lack of interest, at the very least. Mind you, there are plenty of wargaming forums that strives to engage a wider community. This is an AoS forum first and foremost.

Got to ask though; "hate" on alternate game systems? I did a search and in the name of science another one regarding your subject and came up with... nada. Zero. The most "hateful" discussion I could find was a post about Mantic models being lousy. 

Which kind of gets me wondering about the real intention behind a thread like this. 

The comment about models being lousy yes, but if we take that from an AoS standpoint we take them out of context.

 

As to this thread, I wanted to have a serious discussion over why that nerdrage and anger exists. Nothing more. Yes I come to this forum as a primarily koW player, but I want to talk about connections first, and then see if I can stand the game for long enough to build an army specifically for it.

 

Also, to show off my paintjobs on AoS Miniatures.

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I don't see much hate from AoS players on other game systems. It's definitely not anywhere near proportional to the beating AoS and its fans took early on. I would understand some reflexive pushback. That said, playing console wars or whatever with hobbies is inherently extremely lame, and I would recommend not participating in it.

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3 hours ago, Lord marcus said:

I'm seeking friendly discussion about the relationship between AoS and other games.

I've seen a lot of anger and bashing of other game systems, particularly Kings of war. Why is this?

Is it because their hard rank and flank gamers still exist and are using age of Sigmar models in thier games? Or something else?

3

Personally, I don't have rage... I just want to move forward.

When AoS dropped, broke up my army into 4 sub-factions with little synergy and put me at a disadvantage in games where wound counts were the primary equaliser... I dropped my tools and went to skirmish games like Frostgrave, Necromunda, and Mordheim. 

I looked at 9th Age, KoW, 8th Ed WHFB and decided I wanted to wait until the community sorted itself out. I didn't want to learn multiple sets of rules and work 3x harder to find players of each game.

I've watched people in these games and realised that is isn't my game. I've played as The Empire since the late 90's and felt that these other games were just trying to re-create a lost feeling. 

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Just now, Lord marcus said:

Hate is a strong word. My apologies for using it. Pushback and bitterness, instead?

This thread aside, bar the occasional reference to models, I don´t think KoW or 9th or other games have been mentioned more then a handful of times since TGA started. Which might not surprise anyone as this is an AoS forum :) 

This being, to my knowledge, the only thread here about "hatred/pushback/bitterness" I still can't really understand the purpose of this thread.

If you are sincere I'd recommend you to start a thread about the connections you seek and/or go over to the painting forum and post some pictures.   We all love pictures of nicely painted models! 

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1 minute ago, Ratatatata said:

This thread aside, bar the occasional reference to models, I don´t think KoW or 9th or other games have been mentioned more then a handful of times since TGA started. Which might not surprise anyone as this is an AoS forum :) 

This being, to my knowledge, the only thread here about "hatred/pushback/bitterness" I still can't really understand the purpose of this thread.

If you are sincere I'd recommend you to start a thread about the connections you seek and/or go over to the painting forum and post some pictures.   We all love pictures of nicely painted models! 

This thread was to speak about the bitterness in general, not just on this forum. My wording was all over the place earlier. I see that now.

 

I will jump to the painting forums after I get home and snap some pics.

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