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Allegiance and deathmages


Lord Krell

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1 minute ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

If you can afford Blood Knights. :P

I will copy and paste another comment from user "MidasKiss" who has a great idea for that...

 

For the blood Knights, it seems like more people than not use the Dragon Blades for blood Knights. As for the others i will be interested to hear. I don't go to many tournaments yet, but the big things seem to be 1) right base size for the Warscroll, 2) right weapons/banners etc (WYSIWYG) for the Warscroll, and 3) distinguishable units that are easy enough to tell what's what once you have been told (even better if it could be figured out just generally).

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2 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Well, expanding each subfaction wouldn't really negate that, but currently a GA force is the only real way to play Death, unless you're FEC. Opening up more playstyles can hardly be a bad thing.

There is of course merit in this, but it is also a question of what you, as a player, are incentivized to play. This is done largely through army design, and I think it might be difficult to reward both single subfaction play and mixed play at the same time. I guess it could be done though. Currently single subfaction play is encouraged through Allegiance and strong Battleline options. I guess you could then promote mixed through strong cross-faction synergies (things like Settra+Spirit Hosts or SSC+Banshees)?

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On 12/16/2016 at 4:31 PM, CoffeeGrunt said:

My problem is that the only great cross-faction synergy I can think of involves buffing the To Hit rolls of Spirit Hosts or putting Settra in a Skeleton list. :/

Yes, I agree. I just think it would be good if they promoted cross-faction synergistic play for Death, rather than single-faction play. It would be a nice contrast to the other Grand Alliance.

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5 hours ago, Solaris said:

Yes, I agree. I just think it would be good if they promoted cross-faction synergistic play for Death, rather than single-faction play. It would be a Nice kontrast to the other Grand Alliance.

I like this idea, and in fairness we have some of the strongest allegiance abilities / items - but it needs more work still - either more generic battleline units or more battalions which enable you to include units from different factions e.g. VLoZD plus archai but retains deathlords allegiance.

Otherwise every death army will always include 3x10 fairly redundant zombies or skeletons

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  • 3 weeks later...

The dude on top the mortis engine is the same non necromancer on a corpse cart. They are just like grave digger dudes that protect a thing. In this case in side that cage is the remains of a powerful necromancer that is power the whole engine of souls geal.

Did i hear cross faction syngery??

My zombies get +1 attack each from my VL's command ability (doubling thier damage), and with VDM from a Necromancer i get to pile in and attack twice (quadrupling thier damage). 

Since i don't want them to die i take the infernal stanard (which recently i've come to... not love.... but just like having around??). The banner providing my legions of zombies with a 6+ save against death, which syngerizes realyl well with resurracting model via thier own personal banner.

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7 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Problem I have is that you can do all that with Skeletons, and they'll hit harder, but preferences vary. :)

It is indeed. Preference yes... but hit harder??? no...

 

Zombies do the most cost effective damage over a surface area.
 

VL command ability (+1 attack), Attacking twice with necromancer, +1 to hit with corpse cart. 50 zombies (cost less than then 40 skells we'll compare to, but the difference isn't giant). would put out (~200attacks). Hitting on 2+ wounding on 3+. 111 damage put out. You can get a unit as big as 60 getting all the buffs 60 dudes two layer think is a wall that stretchs up to 60" which is most of the board or can be focused abit more to take up a 30" surface area. 

for alittle more you could get 40 skels, buffed by a VL and Necromancer or you can throw in settra to buff multiple units. With VL+necromancer (using swords to show max damage, but spears allow you to do more damage in a smaller area) 40 guys 4 attack each twice at 3+ to hit 4+ to wound would give you 106 damage. or with spears (which most folks take)  is 80 damage.  Settra +necro is worse on a single unit getting one less attack per dude but hitting better is 50 damage is 100 damage with swords or spears are still 80. 

So damage per point zombies make it out on top and damage over a large area zombies do the most. Now spears do betting for more focus damage where you have to rank up and need to take advantage of all 3 ranks of attacks. But zombies are cool because they can go from being quite hard to take out being multiple small units of 10 each healing d6 wounds. Which makes targeting quite the pain or go all out kill with a nice alpha strike style surround. 

As you say preference, but a bit off on the hitting harder bit.

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On 1/9/2017 at 7:09 PM, mmimzie said:

VL command ability (+1 attack), Attacking twice with necromancer, +1 to hit with corpse cart. 50 zombies (cost less than then 40 skells we'll compare to, but the difference isn't giant). would put out (~200attacks). Hitting on 2+ wounding on 3+. 111 damage put out. You can get a unit as big as 60 getting all the buffs 60 dudes two layer think is a wall that stretchs up to 60" which is most of the board or can be focused abit more to take up a 30" surface area. 

So every single zombie will get to attack, and none will die in-between their two attack activations? And there's no terrain to make running a huge, thin line of them difficult? Theoryhammer is one thing, but I've played both and Zombies are more fragile and also lose their strength incredibly-quickly.

If the Necromancer fails to cast, you lose 50% of your promised output. If a roaring shooting phase or counter-charge hits your Zombies and knocks them down to 20+ you're now at 3s and 4s, then worse and worse. Heaven help you if Battleshock comes around and you have to start taking fistfuls of them off the board. You may be able to charge your opponent's entire army with them, but that also means your opponent can charge their entire army into this one squad you've invested all your efforts into.

It's a nice combo, but it disassembles quickly.

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5 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

So every single zombie will get to attack, and none will die in-between their two attack activations? And there's no terrain to make running a huge, thin line of them difficult? Theoryhammer is one thing, but I've played both and Zombies are more fragile and also lose their strength incredibly-quickly.

If the Necromancer fails to cast, you lose 50% of your promised output. If a roaring shooting phase or counter-charge hits your Zombies and knocks them down to 20+ you're now at 3s and 4s, then worse and worse. Heaven help you if Battleshock comes around and you have to start taking fistfuls of them off the board. You may be able to charge your opponent's entire army with them, but that also means your opponent can charge their entire army into this one squad you've invested all your efforts into.

It's a nice combo, but it disassembles quickly.

Even with out piling in and attack twice the zombies do more than the skeletons because the skels only also come close with pile in and attacking twice as well. 

Been playin this list for months. Went against both skaven stormfield & friends and double brother storm cast and came out the other side.

Battle shock only ever effects the MSU units so it's really not that big a deal?? It's not like skeletons that are in blocks of 40 and if you lose half of them the unit will be pretty much wiping itself out. 

The MSU zombie units force attacks to divide themselves amongst multiple units so units either get over killed thus the opponent misses out on potential kills or units servive hanging on by a thread then i got something like 6d6 models back on my turn. 

As for your roaring shooting phase. This isn't a problem again because... it's MSU i don't lose a buff they aren't buffed yet. If i lose half my 90 zombies i still have enough to make a full strength zombie unit, and can summon more. Where the skeletons if you lose half... well there goes all your buffs for good.

As far as getting the dance off i mean sure if i fail it can be bad??? But it would suck just about as bad for skeletons as they'd also do half thier damage meaning zombies would still be more killy.  My list is buiilt to prevent this as much as possible geting +2 to cast base and i get basicly two attempts at the spells as 1 necromancer tries to cast Balewind Vortex first if he fails at that than essentially i get a reroll by have the other guy give it a try, if he gets vortex off than i get VDM off on a 3+. I know what your thinking "but, what if one of your necromancers die!!!" Well i have three.

Zombies cost 20 points less per 10 So simply put i get more zombies for less so sure they kill lots, but i have enough to spare. 

Also saying it's a nice combo but disassemble.... as is any combo ever??? My combo VS jsut a bunch of skeletons... if i ahve -1 rend your all skeleton plan falls pretty much in a garbage can. I don't know why people think i'm saying zombies are the pen ultimate. I'm merely saying they are pretty good and compete up there with many other units in the game power wise. But, I mean it's cool if you believe they are only just a "nice combo" that is quickly dealt with than you are free to your opinion.
 

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