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Allegiance and deathmages


Lord Krell

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Allegiance and deathmages,

Hi all,

I started to play AoS death faction half a year ago. still dabbeling around between factions trying to find the setup right for me..

Recently i bought a lot of FE and currently trying that out.

My question is, will adding a necromancer to your flesh eater court army break allegiance ?

regards,

Lord Krell

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2 minutes ago, Grimnaud said:

But FEC doesn't have their own Allegiance traits or items yet, so who cares? Unless you really want to use Horrors as a battle line unit, adding a Necromancer will be a big benefit to a FEC army.

You hit the soft spot.. i actually like the Horrors, i field 2 units of 6 and a unit of ghouls as battlelines and their courtiers for ress..

with attendants at Court battallion rolls and a ghoul king present, it Works alright.. not in every battle setup tho.

 

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30 minutes ago, Lord Krell said:

Alright, thank you...

Follow up question, Deathmages like the Necromancer, Heinrich kemmler, Mortis Engine can then only be deployed in a setup with death allegiance ?

If you use them with FEC then you'd be running a grand alliance death army.

Deathmages can't be their own allegiance atm, they have no battleline units.

So you would be using the death allegiance abilities (which are quite strong in a horde army setting, which thematically matches Deathmages).

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1 hour ago, Ashtyn said:

So you would be using the death allegiance abilities (which are quite strong in a horde army setting, which thematically matches Deathmages).

Which are, incidentally, the only allegiance ability the Flesh-Eater Courts have access to anyway. Kind of the same thing as Stormcasts with a Hurricanum, or Chaos mixing and matching. Until they give all the subfactions proper allegiance abilities, and not only the most recent releases, adding in all sorts of Grand Alliance-shenanigans is literally no penalty except the possible exception of battleline selection choke.

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see this is why i think they should scrap the whole "taking one model of a different faction breaks that alligiance" thing.

I think that simply your alligiance but be represented by your general and your battleline. for instance i would take a Deathrattle army.

with a Wight king as my general.

Skeles as battleline.

and some necromancers and stuff.

My alligiance would be deathrattle. But only my deathrattle units would benefit from any allgiance abilities.

 

would encourage the use of more creative army combos

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I think an important aspect of this is the fact that Death has been significantly less developed than the other Grand Alliances. Taking a Necromancer in a Deathrattle is hardly the same as taking a Celestial Hurricanum in a Stormcast army - while the former is fluffy and more or less mandatory, the latter is neither (and may be considered somewhat cheesy). What KHHaunts proposes might work in Death as it is now, but would not work as well in other Grand Alliances.

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8 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

To be fair, as it stands Death is probably the only GA that needs the entire GA to function. If you're not assembling your army from several subfactions, it'll probably get rekt.

Yup, I said it many times I can't remember who exactly came up with this idea but considering how GW are doing the factions the only way to do it with Death would be possibly to make each battletome center on a Mortarch and their forces.

Fluff wise they still fight the same a vampire would not sire a whole army of vampires(The head vampire would not see the end of the week since all the kids will be gunning for his spot) they make the point in their section they use both the undead and vampires like how it was in vampire counts.

Plus necromancers and zombies being their own faction makes no sense. My tinfoil hat theory is the reason why we haven't seen another death battletome yet is because GW simply don't know how to handle them. All the books show them fighting how we all know them to fight using the various factions of undead animating them with magic. 

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Well I put a few ideas on a page with warscrolls, but here's the gist of some of the rest:

Nighthaunt:

- Roll the Mortis Engine into here,
- The Shade: a Bravery-debuff unit that's fragile, but synergises nicely with Banshees and the like. Visually it'd look similar to a Cairn Wraith, but ragged and unarmed, as if it's a wisp of a spirit,
- Revenant King: A decent General archetype. Hits fairly hard, brings Magic and can be insanely durable if things go right. Damage output is mediocre. Can rez 1 slain Nighthaunt model a turn via his Command Ability, which I thought would be good. I modelled this for my own Vampire Lord with Wings conversion,
- Vengeful Legions: Another Death Battleline. These would be very high-end, and a great tarpit. With Geisthields and Mystic Shield in Cover they could hold a unit down nicely, and they're a good template to be buffed. They'd look like ghostly Empire Militia as actual models,
- Will O'Wisp: Haven't made a Warscroll for this yet, but it'd be a fragile single model unit that would have some sort of Bravery-based Beguile test that would manipulate enemy movement. Comboed with the Shade above, and Banshees, it could be a brutal combo that puppeteers the enemy,

Deathrattle:

- Grave Rangers: Grave Guard with compound crossbows. A bit of ranged support on an elite unit,
- Bone Golems: Heavy infantry unit of amalgamated skeletons wielding heavy weapons. Fulfill the role of shock infantry with a bit of durability and regen,

Deadwalkers:

- Roll the Necromancer into here, rename it to something like "Craven Cults" to center it on the Necromancers and their retinues,
- Zombie Ogres: Big, tough, annoyingly-hard to kill. Have a habit of eating enemies whole, causing Mortal Wounds,
- Fleshknitter: A Necromancer-esque model who can resurrect slain models via a spell, or heal wounds on them,
- Roll the Terrorgheist and Zombie Dragon into here,

Soulblight:

- Vampiric Thralls: Trash infantry used to tarpit enemies. Vampire units can sacrifice some within a certain distance to heal a Wound,
- Blackblood Rangers: footmobile vampires with bows. Few but potent rangers with minor regen and healing wounds if they kill a model in CC. Their bows would have decent damage, but the arrows are designed to cause massive bleeding. Any unit that charges a model that takes a Wound from them gets to add +2" due to the scent of blood,
- Sanguine Swords: footmobile Blood Knights, basically. Sword and shield instead of lances, but effectively they'd be a nasty CC unit that would get a Bloodthirst bonus against wounded units, probably +1 to Wound or something,

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33 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Well I put a few ideas on a page with warscrolls, but here's the gist of some of the rest:

Nighthaunt:

- Roll the Mortis Engine into here,
- The Shade: a Bravery-debuff unit that's fragile, but synergises nicely with Banshees and the like. Visually it'd look similar to a Cairn Wraith, but ragged and unarmed, as if it's a wisp of a spirit,

Wow I would like a unit like that one death is lacking is synergies save FEC and even then you have to pay for some of their abilities to work. 

edit:Quite interesting I like the list I would also throw the dire wolves in with soulblight feels more I dunno "dracula" and perhaps the deathlord battletome can be filled with mixed formations for those who want a mixed army? 

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49 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

I feel the Dire Wolves add some much-needed speed to Deadwalkers though, plus they work fairly nicely with the Corpse Cart.

True, some part of me is kinda sad if GW separate the raising the dead aspect from vampires though since some of them are necromancers and their section they note they use the undead and sire nests of vampires.

Perhaps they might fuse the dead walkers together along with the necromancer? Zombie ogre's would be great though mannfred raises some in the audio drama.  

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44 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

They wouldn't be separating it though. You can still Summon in Zombies, etc without breaking Allegiance, and you could copy the Skeletons and Zombies across to the Soulblight section.

True perhaps I may do that with zombies, well that's if GW get's around to doing new ones since you can fuse together units of them, I feel skeletons are not worth it in low numbers.

Also summoning just seems like another "deep strike" at most you would just use it for objectives really. Eh that's just me. 

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@CoffeeGrunt Wow, I like all your ideas. I would collect and play each of those expanded factions. I am currently starting a 1,000 pt Nighthaunt list and once that's done I'll be deciding how to expand it to 2,000, stick pure Nighthaunt or mix and match.

I would like to see Deathlords expanded too with some cheaper units in there. I feel like Deathlords represent the new visual style they will be going for with future Death releases.

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On the one hand, these are some really nice ideas. On the other hand, Death is in a somewhat unique position right now, where most factions are incomplete on their own. An alternate approach to the one above would be to embrace this, to deliberately design subfactions that are incomplete as stand-alone armies, and to add in more cross-subfaction synergy elements. That way, Death would play as a mixed and matched faction, as opposed to the other Grand Alliances that are designed more for single-subfaction play.

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23 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

To be fair, as it stands Death is probably the only GA that needs the entire GA to function. If you're not assembling your army from several subfactions, it'll probably get rekt.

I think soulblight could function decently well as a standalone. Thats about it (other then FEC obviously)

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