What do you think of Duardin in AoS?

[Veterannoob]

It may not sound like it but moving instead of 3 is HUGE:) As a longtime dwarf player/collector all I wanted in 8th was options (and a big double-kit) so the vanguard runes were nice. In AoS my Fyreslayers are back into the spot of needing long charges to propel across the board or the smiter to tunnel a unit. Hopefully all duardin get another movement option.

[fartsocks]

10 hours ago, Paul Buckler said:

Quarrelers + runepriest + ungrim with the range boost are very nasty

Ungrim's command ability (+1 to hit and to wound) only applies during the combat phase i.e. not the shooting phase, so can't be used by the quarrelers I don't think.

[hobgoblinclub]

2 minutes ago, fartsocks said:

Ungrim's command ability (+1 to hit and to wound) only applies during the combat phase i.e. not the shooting phase, so can't be used by the quarrelers I don't think.

This is sadly correct. 

[Darth Alec]

Played my first game with the duardin in a while. All warriors, with some thunderers, Gryos and heroes (small game). Thing to note; putting Gyrocopters in teh second rank of a combat unit is devastating. You can easily score 20-odd attacks with it. On a 3+/4+/-1, that is really solid. Only works against large enemy units, but it will do damage to most of them. Just don't bother against Seraphon.

Dwarf Warriors in terrain are surprisingly tanky. 4+ rerolling is a solid save.  Especially for a reasonably cheap unit that isn't terrible in combat. They aren't good, mind. But in a reasonable comp I think they have a place in bulking out our armies.

Thunderers are decent. 16" range is just not long enough to be great, nor is hitting on 4's. I'll likely be packing mine in units of 20+ from now on. That -1 rend is super helpful though. Squishy in combat.

Dragon Slayer is a beast against Monsters. D3x2 damage per attack (using the great axe version)? Amazing. My guy did 6 wounds on a Stegadon. He's super squishy, slow, and no big threat against non-monsters, but for the right price he's worth it both for target saturation and threat range.  

[Paul Buckler]

1 hour ago, fartsocks said:

Ungrim's command ability (+1 to hit and to wound) only applies during the combat phase i.e. not the shooting phase, so can't be used by the quarrelers I don't think.

******, ah well it sounded good to start with

 

 

[Veterannoob]

Glad to hear that Alex, the batreps I've found on YouTube duardin games have been quite boring for me persoanlly, no offense to anyone who made them or enjoys them

[amysrevenge]

Played a game with these guys last night. I added in one Lord Celestant on Dracoth just to mix it up a bit with something to do, and it was pretty fun. Lucked out to be playing a battleplan where I had to defend an objective, I suppose, but it still went quite well.

[UrbanJesus]

Used an unforged the other night against chaos, the new rules where he does double damage to units with the Chaos keyword is insane, he took down most of the enemy on his own before he fell.

[Darth Alec]

On ‎06‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 7:54 PM, Veterannoob said:

Glad to hear that Alex, the batreps I've found on YouTube duardin games have been quite boring for me persoanlly, no offense to anyone who made them or enjoys them

I can see that. It's not like Duardin are the most dynamic guys around. Move 4, no great infantry and lots of solid shooting roots them to the ground. From the batreps I've watched, it's also a lot of "Belegar + Hammerers + Rune Lord + Warmachine cluster". That's not a super interesting army to watch. Where are the slayers? The Miners? The Gyrocopters/Bombers? There's a lot more to them than a lot of people use.

 

On ‎06‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:58 PM, UrbanJesus said:

Used an unforged the other night against chaos, the new rules where he does double damage to units with the Chaos keyword is insane, he took down most of the enemy on his own before he fell.

That is a brutal rule. I've been using the Dragon Slayer. Did 6 wounds with a single attack last game. He's not great, what with not having a save and being move 4". But he can kill a lot when he gets into the right spot!

[hobgoblinclub]

2 hours ago, Darth Alec said:

He's not great, what with not having a save and being move 4". But he can kill a lot when he gets into the right spot!

This has been dwarfs for years and years.  I'd hoped that the duardin might have something more about them.  Throwing miners, gyros etc. at the table seems like a work-around of their limitations rather than a free choice (i.e. 'I like the models').  I really hope the next/proper duardin release sees more dynamic force with bit of pace to it.  More flyers, giant constructs, tunneling machines, transport trains.  Anything but more foot troops.  The 8th release was so disappointing.  We waited years and they gave us irondrakes.  Paf!  AoS is definitely the time to bring on the crazy.  There's so many cool ideas about.  Fingers crossed duardin get the same.

[Darth Alec]

Duardin definitely need something. Fluff was always their problem and their strength in the old editions. It didn't make sense for them to have anything fast. They were very constricted.

 

AoS fixes that. We could get drop-choppas, tunnelling machines, constructs, anything. The core of the dwarfen character seems to have transported over, but without the old-world restrictions. I expect to see something awesome in time. Until then, there are options/hotfixes. Miners and rangers give you strike abilities, whilst the artillery forces the enemy to move.

 

I've been enjoying the battles so far, even though they aren't very flexible. They feel dwarfy. That's the most important thing, IMO.

[hobgoblinclub]

Absolutely, and everything in AoS plays like it should. I just feel like the game has moved on, or at least I play it very differently, from 8th. I'd much rather put an army of 40 models down with all of the impressive toys, than an old school infantry army (I never thought I'd say that! AoS has done strange things to me).

[ChippyRick]

So i have been reading through the warscrolls and writing lists. Since discussing here i really like the idea of the Longbeards for their rule so i am trying to fit at least a small unit in my list for hopefully my first couple of games soon. With them in, adding a Lord as well as a Rune Lord, Belegar and Bugman seem to be how i will go to start. All the character options are cool though, so want to try the others out.

Have people used the Irondrakes much? There were in all my lists to start with, but are the unit i am considering dropping atm. 1-2 units of Hammers and a big unit of Quarrelers are where i am starting, then Longbeards and Irondrakes added to that. Irondrakes for the shooting are needed, but the command ability boost from the longbeards is so good. Cant wait to get a few games in, will update my thoughts after them.

[Nico]

Hopefully they get a 20 wound airship!

[Veterannoob]

4 hours ago, Nico said:

Hopefully they get a 20 wound airship!

By Grimnir's pendulous fiery balls, I hope so!

[mhsellwood]

I have played a number of games with the Duardin (about a dozen so far). In only one of the games have I fielded war machines and generally I have found the army to be a lot interesting than in 8th edition. For reference I have been playing Warhammer since 4th Edition, have only ever played Dwarves and really enjoyed 8th edition.

I have found that being able to move and shoot has made shooting units more flexible and this has made a gun line less predictable and static. This has also been helped by the increase of move -still slow but 4" is only 20% less than the average 5" and a fixed run is great. Fixed to hit and wound rolls as well as lower saves across the board has also made dealing with cavalry and monsters much easier for your basic blokes so you don't need to rely so heavily on your war machines to solve problems like heavy cavalry, monsters etc.

In general I also like the fact that I can field other units without too much trouble. My wife is building an empire army so I am really looking forward to chucking in some demigryphs and a Luminark (which buffs Order units so is a great faction choice). I also think Fyre Slayers rock so being able to put a few of them in with my little balls of iron and muscle is excellent.

Personally things I have found these great:

• Irondrakes. They are tough, their firepower is outstanding, they are excellent targets for buffs. Not great in fisticuffs but great in every other way.
• Dwarf Lord. Solid command ability and excellent damage dealing.
• Hammerers. So much damage, and basically battleshock immune.
• Runelords. Absolute toolbox unit.
• Longbeards. Good buffs, decent survivability but a little lacking in damage output.

[ChippyRick]

That is good to hear. looking at the scrolls there is come great units/options and variety. Just missing an awesome cavalry unit, which maybe they will get in the future. From just the list writing, the speed/in game re-deployment does seem like the only issue. Will see once i have played a few games.

I have a list now with 30 Hammerers, 30 Quarrellers, 20 Irondrakes and 10 Lonbeards as the main units. added in 2 Gyrobombers and 4 characters (Belegar, Bugman, Dwarf Lord and Rune Lord) and that's my lot under Clash Comp at 20 pools. There is a decent amount of bodies but does still feel short of something.
I feel like i want 10 more Longbeards if i am honest, and maybe i dont need as many bodies in some of the other units, but games will tell.

Really want to add a monster / hard hitting cavalry unit but wouldnt know what to drop atm.

Looking forward to trying this list out, hoping next week.

[Veterannoob]

Good to hear. I want to use my irondrakes and Ironbreakers like usual because I love the models. Slayers aren't so much required given I have an army of those. But copters and especially my 2 bombers I want to use plus one or two of my 6 unique runesmith models. AoS has been a godsend:)

 

[Dave Fraser]

I took them to SCGT as a pure Duardin army with the pre-Order Alliance book units available. I basically shot 3 armies off the table and in the other 2 games I had a total grindfest vs nurgle where I was going down but had got up on objectives early in the game.  I got brutalised by a mixed chaos army where they outshot me (now gone up 16 pools under the new comp pack) and a seraphon army did me over with rippers & bastilidons in the mission where terrain blocked LoS so I couldn't get after the slann to stop the summoning (plus I got my drops wrong in that army).

Stuff which I used that I rated:

Flame cannon & Engineer - potential 2d6 mortal wounds - nothing else in the dwarf army has consistent access to mortal wounds.which you need against certain things.

Grudge thrower & engineer - not needing LoS lets you snipe characters with it, being able to pick a target to have rerolls for hit & wound is great (though worth noting it's when you deploy you declare the target so can be limited)

30 xbows buffed by Grim Burlockson & Runesmith and I was using the old formation which let it reroll 1's to hit.  26" range is what makes this unit work, you can get 60 shots on T1 and just delete a threat before your opponent can alpha strike you.  On the odd occasion I was able to use the dwarf lord ability to have +1 to wound as well which was brutal, but only 16" on that wasn't reliable.

Hammerers - were good but not amazing dunno if I just had a couple of bad games with them but they were prone to fluffing and not getting the damage out I expected.

Units that didn't impress me:

Thunderers - too short a range, if they're shooting they're usually getting charged

Warriors - next to no damage output and die fairly easily too

Longbeards - for the points difference at the time I'd probably just take hammerers but if you're running multiple models with command abilities that is likely to be a really valuable ability (I wasn't).

Flame cannon - Yes I know I have it in the 'I rated them' category but at the same time it's so variable that I'd only take it where I felt I had to have some mortal wounds otherwise I'd prefer spend the 19pts elsewhere.

Units I wish I'd taken but didn't because theme/painting

Slayers - you kill me and take mortal wounds on a unit which in SCGT pools was pretty cheap - yes please.  Assorted stat buffs for monsters/multiwound stuff is also good.

Cannon - looks like there is a good damage spike potential there, dunno if it's consistent enough but would have a use.

Ironbreakers 4+ rerollable should make good stay at home objective holding unit, I did find that units of 10-15 of the troops above were often not enough to contest objectives by the end of the game as a relatively small amount of shooting/damage would knock them down as most people have access to multiple wound hits so you go down fast.

So from looking through all that I basically have a load of units which all got dropped if you apply the SCGT legacy system from that comp.  So if they're not allowed I don't think I'd bother trying to run a Duardin army, if they are allowed then yes you can make a competitive force.

That is sticking pure Duardin, I suspect mixing them in with some other Order forces you could get some really nice forces which have a good all round threat and the speed that the Duardin lacked (as noted by others above Gyros being WMs makes them largely irrelevant for SCGT scenarios).

 

Ohh I would add I avoided Stormcasts and Archaeon/nagash in my games.  Stormcasts would probably have done horrible things to me and the super characters I'd be reliant upon shooting them up with the xbows to whittle away and that's not overly reliable so would be a swingy game I suspect.

[Veterannoob]

Thanks for the report, Dave F, excellent to hear about the Duardin and I was specifically interested in their performance a SCGT. I was told only two guys had some Fyreslayers in their army but no solo-armies. Guess that just means it's finally time to go to the UK again or for SCGT.:)

For rebasing my own duardin back home my rough order will be infantry, hero, war machine to break up the monotony.

ironbreakers

rune lord

flame ca

irondrakes

slayer hero

bombers & copters, yadda yadda.

[Dave Fraser]

My full 150 was:

Lord, BSB, Runesmith, Dragonslayer, Bugman, Engineer, Grim Burloksson

2x10 Warriors, 3x10 Quarellers,1x10 Thunderers, 2x10 Longbeards, 4x5 Hammerers

2x1 Stone Throwers, 1x Flame Cannon, 1 x Bolt Thrower, 2x Gyrocopters

This unlocks both the Dwarf formations which were available under the PDF.  Every game I ran the one which was Lord, 2 x warriors, 1xLongbeards, 1xXbows, 1xThunderers, 1x Hammerers to get the reroll 1's to hit and pass all bravery tests on a 1-3 regardless of modifiers and I ended up never using the other one (only really there as would have allowed me to go first vs TK Settra alpha strike lists).

I ended up coming 53/125ish as I did poorly on the special missions, in part due to forgetting them in 2 games, and also in the 2 games I lost I got utterly battered. I drew one game where I killed 86/100 of his army and he got 4pools of mine due to 1 bit of good play by him and 1 error by my when I thought I had it all wrapped up too!

2 units never hit the table in the bolt thrower and the 2nd 10 Longbeards, everyone else got used at least once.

[Darth Alec]

Great breakdown. Thanks for the report.

 

To comment on it, I don't think you brought enough CC ability to use it. You would at best have 1 strong combat unit in the hammerers. And that's still just a 20 wound elite infantry unit with a 4+ save. Not very survivable. As far as combat goes, you simply didn't have the threat. An opponent could just pile everything he had on them, wipe them out, and leave your without any decent combat. Don't know if that's how things went for you, but as an opponent that's how I'd look at it. Pretty old-school gunline then, in a sense.  

Not sure if dropping warmachines for fighting ability would be the right choice.  It's not an easy decision. Only the hammerers have any real damage output, or Ironbreakers for good survivability. Them backed by Gyrocopters and quarrelers/thunderers, lord and runesmiths could be solid. That would be an incredibly tight formation though, and very prone to flanking.

[Dave Fraser]

I played in table 13 round 6, big loss dropped me to 53rd from memory.  Lowest table I played on was 19 I think. (130ish players, so 65 tables)

I was a little light in combat punch but most hammerers I could have brought was 30 under SCGT so sticking pure Duardin don't see where any other combat damage output would come from. 

[Darth Alec]

Wow. That's quite a drop. Must have been a lot of players doing really well in that last round. 

 

I guess that is a significant issue. None of the other CC units actually pack much of a punch. Not trying to be critical of you (you did much better than I did!). Just thinking out loud. Maybe the infantry is a bit overpriced. Not that it's terrible, but because the army as a whole lacks viable options. It might be that it's shooting or bust. Fyreslayers may even be necessary for a well-rounded force.

[Sete]

Lets see how the new duardin roll out.

I will add some fyreslayers to them.

I think we might see a re box with the Metal duardin release. But I secretly wish heavily armoured Dwarfs. Nothing weird like those forest elves