Jump to content

Let's chat Fyreslayers


Nico

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

I know very little about Fyreslayers, but is the Auric Runemaster really worth the buff he gives an enemy unit (potentially artillery that's never gonna see combat) to get battleline Aurics with when you could just fill the battleline slot with another unit of five Vulkites for the exact same cost as the Runemaster and use them as chaff/redirectors/character guards/whatever?

I am not sure. Have never use him, but I have him painted so I have to give him a try him.

I think he is ****** but he have some things going for him compared to 5 vulkites (which is also ******).

In escalation because he makes the aurics battle line you could tunnel them to middle of the board turn one and just shoot everthing that arrives. Theory hammer.

Vulcano call could potentially be very good. For example place the aurics in a terrain that is "deadly" could make them a bit more safe from flying superheroes. Or deny the enemy moving close to some other terrain maybe sylvaneth woods.

He also dont need to run forward and I dont think the opponents would put that much effort in killing him so he might be an ok choice for general to hand out inspiring presence.

But I dont know, have to try him.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 943
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Quote

Seeing Carl doing so well with only three units, (I thought that could be a problem in some scenarios so I have always had four units in my lists), this is my theory hammer fyreslayers net list right now. I hope to try it next week in for example the blood and glory battleplan to see if it could work with four objectives.

Auric Runemaster (80) (To get Auric Battleline)
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Battlesmith (100) (To stay with the non tunneling vulkites)
Battlesmith (100) ( To run up the board together with the magmadroth in the direction of the tunneling force)

Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400) (Tunneling)
Auric Hearthguard x 25 (500) (Tunneling)

With good deplyment and placement of the tunneling force I think it could be both very tough to destroy and very hard hitting.

This is a good variant of my list above. The good thing about the Runesmiter on Magmadroth is that it can run forward with its 20 inch buff bubble (which you can technically trigger at any time - surprisingly) and do the breath attack (since it's not a ranged weapon). 

The downside of it, is that it's 7 drops.

I'm pondering whether I can paint another 10/15 Hearthguard Berserkers to make Lords of the Lodge feel viable (replacing the reliable charge Vulkites with the unreliable charge plus double pile in and attack gamble of the Hearthguard. 

The obvious Allegiance ability would be to give Runesmiters the ability to tunnel two units instead of one (although annoyingly that wouldn't work with the Battlesmith who has to be around in the hero phase). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

I know very little about Fyreslayers, but is the Auric Runemaster really worth the buff he gives an enemy unit (potentially artillery that's never gonna see combat) to get battleline Aurics with when you could just fill the battleline slot with another unit of five Vulkites for the exact same cost as the Runemaster and use them as chaff/redirectors/character guards/whatever?

I originally saw him as being worth negative points for the reason you point out. Utterly horrific on something like Alarielle or Gordrakk or a Necrosphinx!!! 

I had to amend my lists when it was kindly pointed out that it is the Runesmaster and not the Runesmiter which makes Aurics battleline.

He does however add a lot of value against Sylvaneth. If he can make a large piece of scenery quasi-deadly (even a piece of terrain that is already deadly! You could then make it dangerous for the enemy to try to dislodge some Aurics from it.

Lightbulb just went off. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Nico said:

I originally saw him as being worth negative points for the reason you point out. Utterly horrific on something like Alarielle or Gordrakk or a Necrosphinx!!! 

He does however add a lot of value against Sylvaneth. If he can make a large piece of scenery quasi-deadly (even a piece of terrain that is already deadly! You could then make it suicidal for the enemy to try to dislodge some Aurics from it. Lightbulb just went off. 

I'd love to see people deal with an Ironbark Sylvaneth list with two Runemasters in it and as many tricks as possible enabling the Sylvaneth to summon woods for the dwarfs to set fire to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Nico said:

I had to amend my lists when it was kindly pointed out that it is the Runesmaster and not the Runesmiter which makes Aurics battleline.

The naming schemes in some of the Battletomes are just atrocious and Fyreslayers are a prime example. All of their stuff sounds exactly the same, which doesn't help when it also all looks the same. It's a whole book of full of Branchwraith and Branchwych equivalents.

That being said, I love the wildfire army concept with Sylvaneth and Runemasters. I toyed with the idea of using SC Heraldors once but the only way to jam one into Sylvaneth allegiance is with Winterleaf, which I didn't really rate as a combo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

The naming schemes in some of the Battletomes are just atrocious and Fyreslayers are a prime example. All of their stuff sounds exactly the same, which doesn't help when it also all looks the same. It's a whole book of full of Branchwraith and Branchwych equivalents.

That being said, I love the wildfire army concept with Sylvaneth and Runemasters. I toyed with the idea of using SC Heraldors once but the only way to jam one into Sylvaneth allegiance is with Winterleaf, which I didn't really rate as a combo.

Thanks for the sympathy. What threw me off is that the hero in the Forge Brethren is the Runesmiter! You're exactly right.

I think the cheeky Stormcast unit to put in with Winterleaf Sylvaneth are Tempestors for mortal wound pew pew and the automatic (like the Screaming Skull Catapult - it only needs to attack not hit) -1 to hit debuff. Or the Prime - just to mess with their minds.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Nico said:

 

The downside of it, is that it's 7 drops.

Yes that is a problem. I think you have to assume you get to go first in every mission except maybe 3 places of power and prepare to get double turned or hold off the tunneling for one turn.

But Carl did also have 7 drops and it is hard to get around it. You have to build the list around both forge bretheren and lord of the lodge and that makes them expensive and you still have maybe 4 or 5 drops so you still lose to a lot of new battletome lists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's better to talk in terms of waves and units than drops, since they are different concepts for escalation.

For the purpose of waves, all units count (as far as I can tell), so Fanatics, Skulkers, Runesmiter and the tunneled unit. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It might get you closer to the magical 10 units which gives you waves of 4, 4, 2. My Mostly Grots II list was 11 units, which is still good.

If you were 4, 4, 2, then you could choose Vulkites, Vulkites, Vulkites and a Runesmiter as wave one, you could deploy Vulkites and Vulkites on the board (two drops), then Runemiter plus Vulkites tunneled (as your third drop) - so 3 total. This might help you secure the choice of turn.

Similarly, if you were 4, 4, 2 but all your 3 battleline units and one other unit were in a battalion (which doesn't require that all the units deploy at once), then you could deploy the 4 units as a single drop. In the next wave, any other units that were part of the battalion would have to be dropped one at a time (see the rules introducing Battalions in most Battletomes). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok but in my case having 9 units i would need to drop for example like this

Turn 1

25 vulkites

25 vulkites

25 Aurics

Turn 2

Runesmiter on magmadroth

Battlesmith

Runesmiter

Turn 3

Battlesmith

Runesmiter

Runemaster

Still a 1300pt first drop but if I could tunnel them it could in theory be very hard for the opponent to get on to the table. ?

It's the two units of 15 vulkites or one 25 unit and a runemaster to get Auric Battleline question.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you can do is deploy the Vulkites (say) into tunneling (on the basis that the Runesmiter will be deployed into tunneling with them the next wave). So Battleround 2 they can pop up. I would write this down that he will be with that unit (Schrodinger's Runesmiter) (you cannot switch it around). You can still pop units into the Celestial Realm etc. so this should still work.  

I would suggest avoiding a 9 unit army - I think I'm right in saying it's the worst possible number.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Nico said:

What you can do is deploy the Vulkites (say) into tunneling (on the basis that the Runesmiter will be deployed into tunneling with them the next wave). So Battleround 2 they can pop up. I would write this down that he will be with that unit (Schrodinger's Runesmiter) (you cannot switch it around). You can still pop units into the Celestial Realm etc. so this should still work.  

I would suggest avoiding a 9 unit army - I think I'm right in saying it's the worst possible number.

I agree that 9 is the worst but I cant think of a way to get around that.

Maybe that is what Carl did. He also has 9 units. I got curious when he was doing well and looked at his twitter feed to see his army and someone was cursing him for blocking the reinforcements. Not something to do in a friendly game but could be good to know if you are up against lets say some grots and 3 thundertusks and a frostlord. ☺️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he did it against Tomb Kings. I'm a TK player too.

Someone did it against Russ Veal too. 

That Battleplan should be amended so that in the fourth battleround - everything remaining comes on irrespective of the enemy units. Or the equivalent. Then there would be a reasonable risk reward in playing to block the second and third wave.

It's not fun for either player and it is literally an autowin in some match-ups. Also you cost yourself kill points if you do do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/11/2016 at 2:14 PM, Nico said:

I originally saw him as being worth negative points for the reason you point out. Utterly horrific on something like Alarielle or Gordrakk or a Necrosphinx!!! 

I had to amend my lists when it was kindly pointed out that it is the Runesmaster and not the Runesmiter which makes Aurics battleline.

He does however add a lot of value against Sylvaneth. If he can make a large piece of scenery quasi-deadly (even a piece of terrain that is already deadly! You could then make it dangerous for the enemy to try to dislodge some Aurics from it.

Lightbulb just went off. 

Glad there is some point to him because it's such a cool model 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
27 minutes ago, Louzi said:

hey guys,

 

what is he source for the opinion, that you may buff 3x with the forge brethren? Iam arguing with a guy because of this...

What's His argument? It is not a spell so it is no rule of one.

Or is it if you do all three buffs on the same unit? Then RAW it's yes IMO but some might houserule stacking of abillities but that is a house rule. 

Or is it that it's written "a unit" can do this. That is not the same as "one unit" in any warscroll I can think of, it's a unit with this abillity can use it, in this case three units. For example a unit in this battalion can be deployed in the sky etc..

I have a hard time figuring out his arguments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Facebook page (as I recall) ruled that "a" means "any" in the context of the Gnarlroot Battalion. It is fundamentally ambiguous.

It's also a staggeringly poor Battalion if it doesn't allow more than one unit to do it. It's severely limited by the requirements of (1) being near a Runesmiter; (2) it happening in the hero phase (so before popping up with a Runesmiter and a unit of anything); and (3) it disappearing when the target unit charges. Thus it's purely defensive in nature and only really helps the bunker strategy, not the alpha strike strategy.

Moreover is your opponent genuinely arguing that "Fyreslayers are overpowered"? Surely the debate ends in your favour at this point. :)  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1000pts -

RuneSmiter on Magmadroth

RuneSmiter

10 Auric Hearthguard

15 Vulkites with shields/picks

15 Vulkites with Double axes

 

First game as a dedicated Fyreslayer player. I was playing Sylvaneth which I know from a gaming perspective are more potent a faction but meh I love Duardin so im determined to make the best of the faction in spite of the deficiencies. One quick question, I have an unboxed 2nd Magmadroth, would you build it as a second Droth/Smiter or change it up with a father/son on top? Most games im probably only going to ever play with one - smiter on top anyway, after reading how poor these monsters are but just for fits and giggles let me know what you think regards the second magmadroths build.

 

I get the impression that I wouldn't be far off my strongest 2000pt list if I just took the 1000pt one above and doubled that?

 

@NICO your input on these threads is invaluable as always so many thanks for the time and effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, carrigher82 said:

1000pts -

RuneSmiter on Magmadroth

RuneSmiter

10 Auric Hearthguard

15 Vulkites with shields/picks

15 Vulkites with Double axes

 

First game as a dedicated Fyreslayer player. I was playing Sylvaneth which I know from a gaming perspective are more potent a faction but meh I love Duardin so im determined to make the best of the faction in spite of the deficiencies. One quick question, I have an unboxed 2nd Magmadroth, would you build it as a second Droth/Smiter or change it up with a father/son on top? Most games im probably only going to ever play with one - smiter on top anyway, after reading how poor these monsters are but just for fits and giggles let me know what you think regards the second magmadroths build.

 

I get the impression that I wouldn't be far off my strongest 2000pt list if I just took the 1000pt one above and doubled that?

 

@NICO your input on these threads is invaluable as always so many thanks for the time and effort.

My input.

It's hard to make a decent 1000pt list I cant really help you. But for 2000pt doubling your 1000pt list is probably quite good (for fyreslayers) but you need at least one battlesmiths in the list.

It think you should build a Runeson on magmadroth, he is fun in a softer game and you dont really need two Runesmiter on magmadroths in a strong list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need exactly one Runesmiter on Magmadroth and not 2 (I agree with the post above). This is because the reason why the Runesmiter is so good is that it can unleash its aoe buff whenever it likes (literally it doesn't even need to be in your hero phase) and it's an aura buff so provided that the Runesmiter can run (and still pew pew with its not a shooting attack) and get within 10" of your intended buffee, you can buff that unit even if it popped up in the movement phase (after you activated the ability in the hero phase). This is the only way to get the reroll wounds buff on a unit which you tunnel in.

After that, the Runesmiter on the Magmadroth and the foot Runesmiters can just keep up the reroll wounds buffs (manually) on your big blocks of troops.

Adding a second one would provide redundancy but little else. You should plan as to whether your opponent will be able to kill the first one in the first turn or not.

The Runefather on Magmadroth is hard to justify since his command ability is a bad version of the Battlesmith. Note that the Battlesmith can move while his buff aura is deployed (unlike the Bloodsecrator), but you don't get it if the enemy goes first (which is a possible weakspot, cf. a Chaos Warshrine which is always projecting that defensive aura or a Bloodshield). 

I've slowly come to the conclusion that (pending an allegiance pack), the answer may be to bring in a Wizard and use the Warrior Kinband battalion (since this will meet your battleline requirements) even though it's pretty meh. The Lords of the Lodge feels overcosted unless you're planning to bunker up. However, how do you then win on Take & Hold etc. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First game in and I successfully held the magmahold secure from the oncoming storm cast. 1500pts and the guys won a minor victory FOR GRIMNIR. (At the threshold battleplan)

I made a nice tunnel move taking out three retributors with starsoul maces, this up from behind attack opened up two battle fronts which slowed his advance. Made a huge mistake of bringing in ton of bezerkers and cultures onto decimators which was exactly what that unit thrives on...all in all I'm really pleased, nice buffs and the wards are a godsend, vulkites can become pretty tank!! I was worried reading all the naysayers and criticisms of these ginger duardin but one game in and I'm pretty impressed.

Also command ability seemed poor and I quickly realised my efforts here would be well spent on somehow gaining battle shock buffs...maybe dare i say even big standard inspiring presence would work well??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

I've slowly come to the conclusion that (pending an allegiance pack), the answer may be to bring in a Wizard and use the Warrior Kinband battalion (since this will meet your battleline requirements) even though it's pretty meh. The Lords of the Lodge feels overcosted unless you're planning to bunker up. However, how do you then win on Take & Hold etc. ?

Well in brief I won against @Tom Loyn for the first time ever (at the South London Legion). It was close, basically came down to an initiative roll and Battleplan suited me.

I would have to advise not sticking to allegiance with Fyreslayers until they get an allegiance pack. Shutting out access to Wizards is just painful.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...