Let's chat Fyreslayers

[Nico]

The Liche Priest is definitely the weak link.

The Tomb King is pretty tough if he has a shield and is in cover.

A Necromancer is pretty tough though.

If they have a Tomb Herald then that needs to die asap, but is easy to kill.

If Royal Warsphinx - better to go for Settra....

[Andreas]

Forgot the second 6++ ward on Setra. IF you manage to charge one of the runesmiters within 5" on him 25 Aurics would average 8,33 so a lot of risk. You probably kill 4 knights hmm.

But how about Bloodbound. If you splitt the attacks on the bloodsecrators you average 5,5 wounds on each. (If not in cover so the stars must allign to be able to try that.) Is it worth the risk or should you go for a large unit.

And how about Sylvaneth?

[Nico]

Bloodbound are really interesting due to the immune to Battleshock Mechanic. 

One option is to take the first turn and shoot off either the Bloodsecrators or shoot big holes in units and let Battleshock do the rest. Wrathmongers are another key target. If they have the Bloodletter bomb, then shoot them instead or have the Vulkites wreck them - Kill 19 and the rest should pop.

This is particularly true if the Vulkites can make a charge into Blood Warriors - drop mortal wounds on them and smash them dead before they have Bloodsecrators buffs. The Vulkites could then put a lot of their attacks into a unit of Bloodreavers and try to kill like 15 of them and have Battleshock do the rest.

Ideally have the Aurics shoot the Kurnoths (no rerollable saves, no -1 to hit). Then slam the Vulkites into a Treelord Ancient or Dryads for the 5 mortal wounds of impact hits. The -1 to hit is brutal.

[Lordneylon]

Dear Nico and Andreas,

Taking into consideration your TWO proposed lists of 500 points, how would you increase them to 1000 points.

LIST 1:

Auric Runefather (100)
- General
- Artefact : Obstinate Blade
- Command Trait : Legendary Fighter
Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe & Fyresteel Throwing Axes

Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe

Hearthguard Berzerkers x 5 (100)
- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe

LIST 2:

Auric Runemaster (80)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 20 (320)
- War Pick Slingshield & Throwing Axes
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes

Thanks a lot!

 

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Lordneylon said:

Dear Nico and Andreas,

Taking into consideration your TWO proposed lists of 500 points, how would you increase them to 1000 points.

LIST 2:

Auric Runemaster (80)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 20 (320)
- War Pick Slingshield & Throwing Axes
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes

Thanks a lot!

 

The strongest 1000pt possible IMO:

Auric Runemaster (80)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 20 (320) (Tunneling)
Auric Hearthguard x 20 (400) (Tunneling)
 

Something more reasonable to buy:

Auric Runemaster (80)
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400)
Auric Hearthguard x 15 (300)
maybe switch 5 Auric Hearthguards for a battlesmith or a runesmiter (that you convert with bits from the magmadroth kit or if you have a doomseeker from the silvertower that you can run as a runesmiter).

 

Then this is the 1500pt list.

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
Battlesmith (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 20 (320) (Tunneling)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 15 (240)
Auric Hearthguard x 20 (400) (Tunneling)

And this is the 2000pt list. 

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
Battlesmith (100)
Battlesmith (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400) (Tunneling)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 15 (240)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 15 (240)
Auric Hearthguard x 25 (500) (Tunneling)

 

[Nico]

I would suggest:

LEADERS
Auric Runefather (100)

- General
- Artefact : Obstinate Blade
- Command Trait : Legendary Fighter

Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe & Fyresteel Throwing Axes

Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe & Fyresteel Throwing Axes

UNITS
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 5 (100)

- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe

Hearthguard Berzerkers x 5 (100)

- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe
Auric Hearthguard x 25 (500)

- Magmapike & Throwing Axes

WOUNDS: 51 TOTAL POINTS: 1000 / 2000 

[Andreas]

8 minutes ago, Nico said:

I would suggest:

LEADERS
Auric Runefather (100)

- General
- Artefact : Obstinate Blade
- Command Trait : Legendary Fighter

Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe & Fyresteel Throwing Axes

Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe & Fyresteel Throwing Axes

UNITS
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 5 (100)

- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe

Hearthguard Berzerkers x 5 (100)

- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe
Auric Hearthguard x 25 (500)

- Magmapike & Throwing Axes

WOUNDS: 51 TOTAL POINTS: 1000 / 2000 

Haha this is filth but I like it.  25 Aurics in a 1000pt game, if you get the double turn I am not sure what list that could withstand that shooting.

Have you submitted your blood & glory lists? After the deadline please give them to us here.  And please win the event for us. 

[Liam]

Hey,

Been reading the thread and you've come to some of the same conclussions as myself regarding where the gems in the list are (Runesmiter on Magma) but we have differing opinions on how the army plays. You seem to favour this tunneling approach which to me seems to be asking for trouble as you've splitting your force up where in my experience (~20 games) the strength of the army lies in it's togetherness.

 

This is the list I plan on playing this Thursday;

  Leaders
Auric Runefather (100)
- General
- Trait: Strategic Genius
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
- Latch axe
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
- Latch axe
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Battlesmith (100)
- None
Battlesmith (100)
- None

Units
Vulkite Berzerkers x 30 (480)
- Handaxes & Throwing Axes
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
- Throwing Axes & Broadaxe
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes


Battalions
Forge Brethren (80)


Total: 2000/2000

 

 It's a very together army, using dual Battlesmiths along with a closenit army of shooting firepower and a solid line to get the job done. The ability to use two command skills I've really been enjoying over the reckless trait (which didn't really synergise with the FB Formation) as you can give the General his pretend 4+ward along with a bubble of 5" pile in (more useful than I expected) and still have IP up on the big unit. The biggest strength though I've found is generally the amount of dice you can roll vs things which put themselves too far forward. Being able to unload a small bucket worth of shots, all re-rolling to wound really does get the job done.

 

[Andreas]

6 minutes ago, Liam said:

Hey,

Been reading the thread and you've come to some of the same conclussions as myself regarding where the gems in the list are (Runesmiter on Magma) but we have differing opinions on how the army plays. You seem to favour this tunneling approach which to me seems to be asking for trouble as you've splitting your force up where in my experience (~20 games) the strength of the army lies in it's togetherness.

I believe there are two ways to play fyreslayers and even if I favour the tunneling approach I think your list is good example on the other approach, maximize fyreslayers thoughness. 

I still think that some tunneling Aurics would make you list a little bit stronger just to be able to put some damage where you need it or try to capture an objective on the opponents side. ?

[Nico]

Quote

Leaders
Auric Runefather (100)
- General
- Trait: Strategic Genius
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
- Latch axe
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
- Latch axe
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Battlesmith (100)
- None
Battlesmith (100)
- None

Units
Vulkite Berzerkers x 30 (480)
- Handaxes & Throwing Axes
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
- Throwing Axes & Poleaxe
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
- Throwing Axes & Broadaxe
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
- Magmapike & Throwing Axes


Battalions
Forge Brethren (80)


Total: 2000/2000

 

 It's a very together army, using dual Battlesmiths along with a closenit army of shooting firepower and a solid line to get the job done. The ability to use two command skills I've really been enjoying over the reckless trait (which didn't really synergise with the FB Formation) as you can give the General his pretend 4+ward along with a bubble of 5" pile in (more useful than I expected) and still have IP up on the big unit. The biggest strength though I've found is generally the amount of dice you can roll vs things which put themselves too far forward. Being able to unload a small bucket worth of shots, all re-rolling to wound really does get the job done.

 

I think you'll do fairly well with this list. The Battlesmith is so good that I've even considered tunneling him up near the alpha strikers (although he wouldn't be able to use his banner until the next turn).

The problem here is the slowness of this army. I just don't see any way you can reliably get a major on Blood & Glory. Unless your opponent is a melee army and runs headlong into you like a muppet, with sequential waves breaking off your rock and then you waddle over to their objective on the final turn. This will not happen very often.

The other big problem is the Auric Hearthguard - they are a staggeringly squishy and juicy target (basically like Tree Revenants). With their bad range they are going to get shot off by any enemy pew pew. The Battlesmith will give them a rerollable save, but frankly it might be worth the enemy player taking turn one, aiming to shoot 4 models off each unit (before they get the rerollable saves), then hoping the last one pops from Battleshock. This would be doable with say 2-3 units of Kurnoth Hunters or 2 Units of Judicators. At 20 points per wound, it will be hideous (Arrer Boyz are 5 points per wound). 

[Nico]

Quote

I still think that some tunneling Aurics would make you list a little bit stronger just to be able to put some damage where you need it or try to capture an objective on the opponents side. ?

Yeah - or you can keep them back a few turns - wait for the enemy to overcommit and then either smash up his weaker area with the Aurics or hit his stronger area with your main force and the Aurics as well.

[Andreas]

Could look like this. ?

Auric Runefather (100)
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
Battlesmith (100)
Battlesmith (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400)
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)

Auric Hearthguard x 15 (300) Tunneling

Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
Auric Hearthguard x 5 (100)
Forge Brethren (80)

[Liam]

Problem is it only leaves you with a single re-roll bubble and the one leading the tunneling party can't use his on the turn he's up.

I can see where you're coming from though. I think I might have to try it at some point.

[Andreas]

True. The idea is to either if the opponent overextend go for an objective in the opponent deployment zone (and the threat might make the opponent hold back more units than he wants to be able deal with this) or you just pop up and use them to counterattack when the opponent have crashed into your lines. In this case you use "the grand awakening" to give them the reroll when they arrive. This I think would play simulary to your list but with a little bit stronger hammer (that he cant kill at range) for the counterattack.

Edit: Next turn you lose the reroll bubble but you still got two rerolls to hand out.

[Andreas]

So fyreslayers had a great showing at blood and glory. I watched the twitch stream on and off during the weekend and Carl Smith I think his name was came on 6th place with pure fyreslayers. That is really great when you see the competition, kuning ruk, clan skryre, thundertusk spam, flying stormfiends with warpfire projectors, Setra and all his snakes etc. you name it. It looked like this was his list:

Auric Runefather (100) (Tunneling)
Auric Runeson on Magmadroth (280)
Battlesmith (100)
Grimwrath Berzerker (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 30 (480) (Tunneling)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 20 (320)
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 20 (400)

Really interesting, I think there is a lot to discuss here. Runeson not Runesmiter on magmadroth, no Aurics, tunneling the Runefather (to get reckless close to the tunneling vulkites I think), one unit of 20 HB not two with 10 HB, a grimwrath etc.. A lot of interesting choices and it worked!

[Louzi]

It is a good idea to use the Runefather for Reckless and the 6" pile in. But I think, that the Runeson is a waste of points. And if the people are right and u can give 3x +1 to save with forge brethren, this is so good...so I would go:

Runefather

Runesmiter on Magmadroth (much better than Runeson)

Battlesmith

Grimwrath

Smiter

Smiter

30 Vulkites (with Axes, not Shield)

15 Auric Hearthguard and Forge Brethren (I think better than another 20 Vulkites)

2x 10 HB (because of battleline issues)

 

[Andreas]

44 minutes ago, Louzi said:

....

 

Yes in my head I think of lots of ways to improve his list. For example change the runeson to a runesmiter on magmadroth then skipp the grimwrath and add 10 vulkites more to the unit of 20 instead. You lose one hero but you gain another unit with 30 vulkites and great buffs from the runesmiter on magmadroth.

But you cant really argue with success!

[Malakithe]

Na Grimmy is a monster. That crazy ****** can fight anything and in the right situations is functionally immortal. 

[Double Misfire]

This is probably going to seem a little controversial, but Fyreslayers don't have any allegiance stuff yet so here goes:

I've been in awe of the resilience offered by Vulkites with shields coupled up with a Battlesmith since the Warlords stream and am way too lazy to paint up a couple of big units for myself. Has anyone thought about allying in some Ironweld/Dispossessed warmachines to soften the enemy up while forcing them towards your battleline, before mopping them up with a couple of very well armed, very hard to kill units while gyrocopters/miners/whatever hard to kill chaff you feel like sits on objectives in the style of a "traditional" dwarf list?

[Andreas]

3 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

This is probably going to seem a little controversial, but Fyreslayers don't have any allegiance stuff yet so here goes:

I've been in awe of the resilience offered by Vulkites with shields coupled up with a Battlesmith since the Warlords stream and am way too lazy to paint up a couple of big units for myself. Has anyone thought about allying in some Ironweld/Dispossessed warmachines to soften the enemy up while forcing them towards your battleline, before mopping them up with a couple of very well armed, very hard to kill units while gyrocopters/miners/whatever hard to kill chaff you feel like sits on objectives in the style of a "traditional" dwarf list?

I think the problem is that if you go for a tunneling list like Carl Smith, me or Nico it is very hard to find the points to add something else without significantly weakening the list.

But if you look at from another direction it might be worth adding 25 vulkites and a battlesmith to your existing 1500pt Order force to get to 2000pt and add a really tough anvil. 

I would love if some sylvaneth player does that within the Ironbark grove formation.

Or traditional duardin of course. ☺️

[Double Misfire]

Quite tempted to stop referring to them as "traditional" dwarfs and just clothed dwarfs instead. 

[Andreas]

9 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Quite tempted to stop referring to them as "traditional" dwarfs and just clothed dwarfs instead. 

Yeah, my guess is that within a year no one will talk about traditional dwarfs. It will be mohawk duardins or steampunk duardins with some people talking nostalgically about the dispossessed ones. ?

[Double Misfire]

Just now, Andreas said:

Yeah, my guess is that within a year no one will talk about traditional dwarfs. It will be mohawk duardins or steampunk duardins with some people talk nostalgically about the dispossessed ones. ?

I'm actually ok with this.

Spoiler

I've been secretly waiting for my dwarf army to become squats for the last 20 years.  

 

[Andreas]

Seeing Carl doing so well with only three units, (I thought that could be a problem in some scenarios so I have always had four units in my lists), this is my theory hammer fyreslayers net list right now. I hope to try it next week in for example the blood and glory battleplan to see if it could work with four objectives.

Auric Runemaster (80) (To get Auric Battleline)
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Auric Runesmiter (100)
Battlesmith (100) (To stay with the non tunneling vulkites)
Battlesmith (100) ( To run up the board together with the magmadroth in the direction of the tunneling force)

Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400)
Vulkite Berzerkers x 25 (400) (Tunneling)
Auric Hearthguard x 25 (500) (Tunneling)

With good deplyment and placement of the tunneling force I think it could be both very tough to destroy and very hard hitting.

[Double Misfire]

I know very little about Fyreslayers, but is the Auric Runemaster really worth the buff he gives an enemy unit (potentially artillery that's never gonna see combat) to get battleline Aurics with when you could just fill the battleline slot with another unit of five Vulkites for the exact same cost as the Runemaster and use them as chaff/redirectors/character guards/whatever?