Let's chat Skaven tactics

[Sheriff]

23 minutes ago, Riavan said:

I don't get why they break skaven apart like this but seraphon is fine?

Crazy isn't it. Huge list for them to pick from. Surely could have split into skinks and crocodiles or something. 

[Cerlin]

They either need to expand all the factions they split or just bring them back as a family.

In Would love to see Racial books that give ability to the races that are somewhere between the order, chaos, destruction, death levels and the specific factions in power but let me bring these old friends together.

This would help skaven and aelfs alot 

I also thought that perhaps they could make verminous units be like slaves of darkness that can choose another skaven warbands keyword instead.  This makes thematic sense because they were not a faction in the world that was, but instead the foot troops for all factions. This would be a small change that would allow us all to use our clanrats, stormvermin, and warlords again in with the other fun units.

[Flood]

1 hour ago, Cerlin said:

They either need to expand all the factions they split or just bring them back as a family.

In Would love to see Racial books that give ability to the races that are somewhere between the order, chaos, destruction, death levels and the specific factions in power but let me bring these old friends together.

This would help skaven and aelfs alot.

I very much agree! I was surprised and baffled to see that skaven were split up. Thematically it makes some sense, and i get what they are getting at. All these clans fight and hate each other, each thinking they are the best. But all skaven fight and hate each other and would stab their friend in the back for a little snort of warpstorm, and especially a promotion in rank. What difference would it make that they fight alongside other clans? More people to stab in the back and a less likely chance of getting stabbed in the back. 

Honestly I can't really bring myself to play a single skaven faction. Even skryre alone isn't my cup of tea, as I love to mix in verminlords, hellpits, etc etc. The new alliance ability allows this to an extent but greatly limited. Heck you can't even ally thanquol boneripper in and hes a giant stormfiend with skryre warpfire projectors. 

Due to this, I essentially just run a "mixed chaos" list, but it's more accurately mixed skaven. Especially now that sayl is out of the mix, it's reallt just skaven. I think skaven should get a bonus for fielding only skaven and no other chaos, and then get a bigger bonus for staying within an allegiance. 

Maybe a good idea would be to have "Skaven allegiance" as a whole, and additionally sub faction allegiance like "skryre alllegiance". E.g. a generalized skaven allegiance should have artefacts and abilities slightly weaker than a more specific skryre or pestilence allegience. 

This wouldn't at all be hard to do, since all skaven already have the skaven keyword (with exception to the verminlords). They can easily make skaven allegiance with clanrat battleline. You would then take verminlords as allies and not break skaven allegiance. 

[Kugane]

3 hours ago, Flood said:

I very much agree! I was surprised and baffled to see that skaven were split up. Thematically it makes some sense, and i get what they are getting at. All these clans fight and hate each other, each thinking they are the best. But all skaven fight and hate each other and would stab their friend in the back for a little snort of warpstorm, and especially a promotion in rank. What difference would it make that they fight alongside other clans? More people to stab in the back and a less likely chance of getting stabbed in the back. 

Honestly I can't really bring myself to play a single skaven faction. Even skryre alone isn't my cup of tea, as I love to mix in verminlords, hellpits, etc etc. The new alliance ability allows this to an extent but greatly limited. Heck you can't even ally thanquol boneripper in and hes a giant stormfiend with skryre warpfire projectors. 

Due to this, I essentially just run a "mixed chaos" list, but it's more accurately mixed skaven. Especially now that sayl is out of the mix, it's reallt just skaven. I think skaven should get a bonus for fielding only skaven and no other chaos, and then get a bigger bonus for staying within an allegiance. 

Maybe a good idea would be to have "Skaven allegiance" as a whole, and additionally sub faction allegiance like "skryre alllegiance". E.g. a generalized skaven allegiance should have artefacts and abilities slightly weaker than a more specific skryre or pestilence allegience. 

This wouldn't at all be hard to do, since all skaven already have the skaven keyword (with exception to the verminlords). They can easily make skaven allegiance with clanrat battleline. You would then take verminlords as allies and not break skaven allegiance. 

What did they change about Sayl?

[Flood]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

What did they change about Sayl?

He can now only use his spell on slaves to darkness, and its no longer a fly, its now a teleport, and the entire unit must be in range of his spell, so you can't congaline. Also, his 3d6 spell once per game is gone. You should check out his warscroll. Hes also 120 pts now instead of 160 but substantially less good. Seems ok for slaves to darkness but not what he was for chaos grand alliance as a whole. 

His new spell...

Sayl can use his dark arts to enshroud himself or his allies in a dark vortex of magical power and transport them across the battlefield like a shadow across the sun. Traitor’s Mist has a casting value of 7. If successfully cast, pick a friendly Slaves to Darkness unit wholly within 15" of the caster. Remove the unit from the battlefield, and then set it up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. If you pick Sayl himself to be the target of this spell and Nightmaw is within 3" of him when the spell is cast, you can also remove Nightmaw from the battlefield and then set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is within 3" of Sayl the Faithless and more than 9" from any enemy models. Units moved in this manner cannot move in the following movement phase.

L

Quo

 

 

[Riavan]

Mixed skaven doesn't seem overpowered and would make people buy more units and models.

It's just a super weird business decision.

[Kramer]

15 hours ago, Cerlin said:

I also thought that perhaps they could make verminous units be like slaves of darkness that can choose another skaven warbands keyword instead.  This makes thematic sense because they were not a faction in the world that was, but instead the foot troops for all factions. This would be a small change that would allow us all to use our clanrats, stormvermin, and warlords again in with the other fun units.

Yeah that could work, but on the other hand... the whole set up of factions vs grand alliance really appeals to me. But it only works for me if the factions have a specific playstyle and feel. It should always be a difficult choice to go either grand alliance, meaning you get a better rounded army, or faction specific, meaning you get an army that lacks certain elements but capitalises certain strengths. 

That's why I always feel that when people claim, for example, that Khorne desperately needs some shooting to compensate the lack of magic it would just lead to very similar armies that will lose their different playstyles. I hope GW keeps true to their set-up. 

So I would rather see some abilities and traits for verminous than making them the core for every army. So every clan offers that choice. Going very specific with added traits and bonuses or grand alliance to fill in gaps in playstyle. For that reason, but will see in a month or two if that still holds true,  I don't like the allies rule. It takes away from that choice. But from a hobby side point of view I love it. For example my greek themed Slaanesh army can now bring minotaurs. How cool is that! 

[Kugane]

11 hours ago, Flood said:

He can now only use his spell on slaves to darkness, and its no longer a fly, its now a teleport, and the entire unit must be in range of his spell, so you can't congaline. Also, his 3d6 spell once per game is gone. You should check out his warscroll. Hes also 120 pts now instead of 160 but substantially less good. Seems ok for slaves to darkness but not what he was for chaos grand alliance as a whole. 

His new spell...

Sayl can use his dark arts to enshroud himself or his allies in a dark vortex of magical power and transport them across the battlefield like a shadow across the sun. Traitor’s Mist has a casting value of 7. If successfully cast, pick a friendly Slaves to Darkness unit wholly within 15" of the caster. Remove the unit from the battlefield, and then set it up anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. If you pick Sayl himself to be the target of this spell and Nightmaw is within 3" of him when the spell is cast, you can also remove Nightmaw from the battlefield and then set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is within 3" of Sayl the Faithless and more than 9" from any enemy models. Units moved in this manner cannot move in the following movement phase.

L

Quo

 

 

 

I see. I was looking in the wrong pdf it seems, the old rules for sayl were still up on the forgeworld site (through google). Thats a real shame, I just bought Sayl a while ago and didn't even get to put him together. Time to sell Sayl.

[Deathmaster Snikch]

I'm like the previous commenter in that I liked playing mixed Skaven, I don't like limiting myself to Skryre or Pestilens for different reasons (not wanting to paint an excessive amount of plague monks and not liking stormfiends [blasphemy I know])

 

What we need to be viable is the strength in numbers rule to be viable to ALL Skaven not just Pestilens or Skryre or we're pretty much not able to compete, we've been hit hard by the legacy warscroll changes to compendium which I'm also really disappointed about. A grey Seer is pretty much mandatory now for battleshock since we've lost the banner and his spell will be worth it now because of hordes being buffed

 

What I would like to see is a Skaven Masterclan book with rules that 'Masterclan' allegiance can take any Skaven from any clans and any model with the Verminlord keyword. Then have different artefacts traits etc fit Eshin, Moulder etc 

 

But yeah - strength in numbers in the FAQ please! We need it 

[Kugane]

20 hours ago, Deathmaster Snikch said:

I'm like the previous commenter in that I liked playing mixed Skaven, I don't like limiting myself to Skryre or Pestilens for different reasons (not wanting to paint an excessive amount of plague monks and not liking stormfiends [blasphemy I know])

 

What we need to be viable is the strength in numbers rule to be viable to ALL Skaven not just Pestilens or Skryre or we're pretty much not able to compete, we've been hit hard by the legacy warscroll changes to compendium which I'm also really disappointed about. A grey Seer is pretty much mandatory now for battleshock since we've lost the banner and his spell will be worth it now because of hordes being buffed

 

What I would like to see is a Skaven Masterclan book with rules that 'Masterclan' allegiance can take any Skaven from any clans and any model with the Verminlord keyword. Then have different artefacts traits etc fit Eshin, Moulder etc 

 

But yeah - strength in numbers in the FAQ please! We need it 

I actually have no idea where to take my Skaven army now with the new rules (or any of my armies for that matter, they all kind of fell apart) and reached a stage where I'm pretty much unable to play age of sigmar at 2k points due to lack of models or stuff just not getting along anymore. I used to love my mixed skaven army, but now I can hardly build a list where everything fits together. I'm glad the Greyseer can finally see some use, because I love the model, but that's about it.. I think it was a horrible choice to exclude so many allegiances. They could at the very least have given every allegiance something to work with. Somehow the new handbook feels more like a rule book to push sales into new armies or being forced to take a break until they finally release some sort of battletome in a year or so.

[bRock_320]

I think it would be a great move to be able to give clanrats any of the major clan keywords. I like skryre but don't want to just use Acolytes for mass bodies.

Did verminus clawpack get updated with GH2017? It looks like its still 80 points in the App but I don't see it on the updated pitched battle profiles or in the skaven compendium.

Currently having fun taking the clawpack plus warbringer, arch warlock, a hellpit and stormfeinds.

[Kugane]

30 minutes ago, bRock_320 said:

I think it would be a great move to be able to give clanrats any of the major clan keywords. I like skryre but don't want to just use Acolytes for mass bodies.

Did verminus clawpack get updated with GH2017? It looks like its still 80 points in the App but I don't see it on the updated pitched battle profiles or in the skaven compendium.

Currently having fun taking the clawpack plus warbringer, arch warlock, a hellpit and stormfeinds.

I personally wouldn't mind picking up some acolytes if they weren't so expensive for what you get. I'm fine with paying more money for a cool army, but Acolytes sculpts don't fit in with other Skaven stuff in my opinion and need an update.

The verminus clawpack isnt anywhere to be found in the general's handbook as far I know, but it is still on the app. I'm not sure how that would work, considering that a bunch of units from that clawpack are now allies and no longer Verminus. Unless you run GA: Chaos I don't think its legal to take an Arch Warlock, hellpit and stormfiends alongside Verminus stuff, but I may be mistaken.

[bRock_320]

For now I'm just running my pure skaven army as GA: Chaos,  so I hope we get some verminus and clan attention in the near future.

[Kugane]

Just now, bRock_320 said:

For now I'm just running my pure skaven army as GA: Chaos,  so I hope we get some verminus and clan attention in the near future.

I am still waiting for Eshin support for a few years now. The fact they didn't include any battletome for Eshin has me hoping they'll get some new Nightrunners or something soon. In fact, I am hoping there are going to be a bit more stealthy units in general. I always love toying around with stealth units in Warhammer and such.

[bRock_320]

Eshin would be amazing and some stealth or extra movement options would be nice, especially for some of the newer objective based missions. 6'' move isn't too bad, but I'm finding my rats outpaced by a lot of armies I play against.

[Xanax Lot]

4 hours ago, Kugane said:

I personally wouldn't mind picking up some acolytes if they weren't so expensive for what you get. I'm fine with paying more money for a cool army, but Acolytes sculpts don't fit in with other Skaven stuff in my opinion and need an update.

The verminus clawpack isnt anywhere to be found in the general's handbook as far I know, but it is still on the app. I'm not sure how that would work, considering that a bunch of units from that clawpack are now allies and no longer Verminus. Unless you run GA: Chaos I don't think its legal to take an Arch Warlock, hellpit and stormfiends alongside Verminus stuff, but I may be mistaken.

Same here, I don't mind the rules but the minis are just awful, I saw some conversions on instagram that look great. its basically lardaron overlook bodies with shaven heads! they look so good. 

 

[Xanax Lot]

I am very disappointed on the verminous options we have now.

All of our named characters ( which had great command abilities ) are now gone and we have 5 units to choose from. the stormvermin are great but an army of just them and a vermin lord is not an army list I would like to play 

[Malakithe]

I like the idea of Skryre but i want to have a ton of clanrats too

[Kugane]

4 hours ago, Xanax Lot said:

Same here, I don't mind the rules but the minis are just awful, I saw some conversions on instagram that look great. its basically lardaron overlook bodies with shaven heads! they look so good. 

 

I am trying to find those "lardaron overlook" miniatures, but I can't find them on google, do you happen to have a link? I might end up doing some conversions at this rate.

[Xanax Lot]

3 hours ago, Kugane said:

I am trying to find those "lardaron overlook" miniatures, but I can't find them on google, do you happen to have a link? I might end up doing some conversions at this rate.

Hahahah the auto correct is my worst enemy, I meant KO.

 

[Kugane]

7 hours ago, Xanax Lot said:

Hahahah the auto correct is my worst enemy, I meant KO.

 

Dear great horned one, those are some awesome skaven! I think some adeptus mechanicus stuff from 40k would also fit in quite well with Skyre. I may shamelessly copy this design they made.

 

Here is some acolytes text straight of the GW website:

"On the battlefield Skryre Acolytes lurk between Skaven formations and await an opportunity to dart forward and lob their deadly missiles. "

"Lurking" between Skaven formations is now redefined to 60 acolytes trying to hide behind 6 stormfiends. 5 behind each leg.

[Deathmaster Snikch]

On 29/08/2017 at 10:38 PM, Kugane said:

I personally wouldn't mind picking up some acolytes if they weren't so expensive for what you get. I'm fine with paying more money for a cool army, but Acolytes sculpts don't fit in with other Skaven stuff in my opinion and need an update.

The verminus clawpack isnt anywhere to be found in the general's handbook as far I know, but it is still on the app. I'm not sure how that would work, considering that a bunch of units from that clawpack are now allies and no longer Verminus. Unless you run GA: Chaos I don't think its legal to take an Arch Warlock, hellpit and stormfiends alongside Verminus stuff, but I may be mistaken.

I converted mine out of plague monks and skitari parts, same for my Jezzails

The reason Skryre didn't make sense to me is the only plastic kit they have are stormfiends, a lot of the weapon teams you can't buy anymore or are plastic exclusive in the island of blood, meanwhile verminus have plastic kits for Verminlords clanrats and Stormvermin which still hold up. Just GW trying to ship stormfiends 

 

Verminus Clawpack like all compendium battalions no longer exists 

 

And I agree clanrats should have the keyword of every clan 

[Xanax Lot]

15 minutes ago, Deathmaster Snikch said:

I converted mine out of plague monks and skitari parts, same for my Jezzails

The reason Skryre didn't make sense to me is the only plastic kit they have are stormfiends, a lot of the weapon teams you can't buy anymore or are plastic exclusive in the island of blood, meanwhile verminus have plastic kits for Verminlords clanrats and Stormvermin which still hold up. Just GW trying to ship stormfiends 

 

Verminus Clawpack like all compendium battalions no longer exists 

 

And I agree clanrats should have the keyword of every clan 

I did the same for my jezzails although I messed up the basing 

 

[TheWilddog]

For my Skyre Acolytes I just cut up a couple of the Poison Globe Weapons Teams and stuck them on individual bases.  They are a little mono-pose but quick and easy.

[Xanax Lot]

55 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

For my Skyre Acolytes I just cut up a couple of the Poison Globe Weapons Teams and stuck them on individual bases.  They are a little mono-pose but quick and easy.

Jajjsja I did exactly the same! I also used the crew of the warplightning cannon as acolytes