Let's chat Grotz and Moonclan

[Deathawaits101]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:54 AM, Donal said:

@Skabnoze Where did you see my list? I'll take a photo later & share

Congrats on the top 10 finish!

 

[novakai]

My completed painted Moonclan army so far

 

Got to paint more Goblins soon.

[novakai]

Grot faction focus up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/03/3rd-june-faction-focus-grotsgw-homepage-post-3/

[Skabnoze]

Wow, that faction focus was fairly awful.  It said there was an unspecified point discount for all trolls and giants are 10 points cheaper...

It is a bit sad to confirm that neither of the command abilities is changing at all.  I hope that when/if there is a Moonclan battletome that they alter those command abilities because they are really not very great.  

“Stab them good” is a fun ability but right now there is pretty much very little synergy with it.    Grots have a bonus to wound in large units and that is it.  The command ability is fairly good but Moonclan just has little ability to make it really dangerous.

”Even More Boingy” is flat out awful.  It is an aura, and that is really the only good thing you can say about it.  The bonus movement to most units is so negligible that who cares?  Rerolling movement and run for squig hoppers is ok but still quite meh.  It does not work for Manglers or Colossal squigs random movement - and it does not even work for the Warboss himself since he does not have the Squig Hopper keyword (at least not currently).  

All squig units aside from normal cave squigs have an ability that triggers on a charge roll of doubles.  I like the idea of this, but I don’t like the execution because it triggers so infrequently that you are fairly safe forgetting that the ability exists for any of these units.  Best case you have a 1/6 chance to trigger those abilities, but that assumes that a charge roll of 2, 4, or 6 will be successful.  Most likely you are looking at a 1/8 or a 1/12 to get those abilities to trigger.  These remind me of the crit system in Warmachine - which was an awful rule system.  These abilities and effects are neat, and I don’t mind the triggering being random - my issue is with the frequency.  Cool rules that rarely ever trigger might as well just not exist.

I was really hoping that the “more boingy” command ability would be altered so that it either causes those squig charge abilities to trigger or so that it makes the odds much higher.  For example, change it so that it effects all squig units and lets you roll 3d6 to charge or 3d6 and pick the 2 dice you want.

Oh well, I can still hope that they put some thought into these units and abilities when the battletome comes out.  I am a bit disappointed in the faction focus but not really surprised.  Goblins have never been good other than for a brief period by accident.  It’s not like I have been playing with them for so many years because they win all the time.  But what disappoints me right now with grots, Moonclan in particular, is that the fun rules very rarely trigger and there is little synergy available to make them trigger.  Rules are only fun if you can use them.

[kenshin620]

At the GW HQ

"Psst boss, what do we do with all of these 6th edition and older models?"

"Make them nearly unplayable so we have a underperfoming sales quota. Then we can finally have a reason for stop making the models!"

 

I mean I have basically no hope gitmobs are getting anything, and I think they're deliberate using smoke and mirrors to obscure Moonclan from getting anything to "prepare" for their eventual update 6 or so months from now.

[Thostos]

I look at it this way,,if they were giving them more substantial changes now,then that would indicate that a tome for grots/greenskins in any shape or form was much further off.Im seeing this as indication that they may indeed have a tome coming before years out..possibly before summers out.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I'm excited for the points reductions for Troggoths and Gargants, some of my favorite models. I think if you expected warscroll updates than you were setting yourself up for disappointment. Pretty much all of the faction focus articles have been light in content.

I really don't expect any big Moonclan updates until the battletome. The current plastic stuff is already good ruleswise, and I'm guessing that GW won't make any warscroll updates to finecast models. Wouldn't mind Fanatics going down in points however.

[Skabnoze]

39 minutes ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

I'm excited for the points reductions for Troggoths and Gargants, some of my favorite models. I think if you expected warscroll updates than you were setting yourself up for disappointment. Pretty much all of the faction focus articles have been light in content.

I really don't expect any big Moonclan updates until the battletome. The current plastic stuff is already good ruleswise, and I'm guessing that GW won't make any warscroll updates to finecast models. Wouldn't mind Fanatics going down in points however.

I agree, although the price reduction of the Giant does not seem to be enough to really get excited about.  It is just 10 points and he was already pretty cheap.  I don’t know how the other points will end up, but with current costs a 10 point reduction does not mean anything for list building really.  Hopefully the troll cost reduction is significant enough to impact list building.

I was not expecting anything ground shattering with a faction focus, but I was expecting something.  It saddens me that the only changes of any type (even costs) in the grot faction focus were not for any of the grot allegiances at all but for the Gargants and Troggoth allegiances.  There was honestly nothing in this article that is really exciting for grots and that is a shame.

I really hope that this does not mean that GHB ‘18 does not include allegiance abilities for any of the grot allegiances.  That would be a real shame.  I was hoping for a teaser of that sort.

So far GW has done a great job with the faction focus articles leaving some exciting tidbits for the new edition.  It is a shame that they were not able to continue that trend with Beastclaw and Grots.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I agree that the fact that the spoilers not being Grot focused was odd, but I'm thinking that there will be quite a few additional adjustments in the next GHB. Certainly suggests that GW may be thinking that if you're Destruction and don't have a battletome, you're probably mixed Destruction.

 I have faith that when flying squigs are announced, all will be redeemed.

[Banglesprout]

The points reduction for giants does mean you can now take 3 as allies where before it was only possible to take two, so theres a new option to consider for list building of you weren't taking destruction allegiance.

Curious to hear the points reduction for trolls too, I love my river trolls, so would really like to see them get better!

[PlasticCraic]

6 minutes ago, Banglesprout said:

The points reduction for giants does mean you can now take 3 as allies where before it was only possible to take two, so theres a new option to consider for list building of you weren't taking destruction allegiance.

3 x 160 = 480 

So unless you're playing 2500 points you'd still be capped at 2?

Where it does help a bit is that virtually everything comes in multiples of 20 (only exceptions in the GA being Greenzkinz at 90 and 30x Ardboyz at 450 I believe?)

So in practical terms, a 10 point drop does click them down a full price point now and helps with list building in that way.  It's pretty thin but GW seems terrified of them being good!  I'd love to see them get some keywords.

[Skabnoze]

Bear in mind that I like giants and I think they are better than people give them credit for.  I already thought that they were well costed for  how offensive they are and so any price reduction is better.

But without seeing other point costs I still can’t tell if a 10 point cost reduction really makes any impact.

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

Bear in mind that I like giants and I think they are better than people give them credit for.  I already thought that they were well costed for  how offensive they are and so any price reduction is better.

But without seeing other point costs I still can’t tell if a 10 point cost reduction really makes any impact.

Aleguzzlers are beautifully disgusting models, but a 1/6 chance to go nowhere on a charge is just too bad.  I think they would be strong but not broken at 140.

Also, stuff 'em in the bag is one of the most thematic abilities out there.  I'd love to see it more frequently.

[Skabnoze]

I don’t disagree that it can suck to fall down rather than charge.  That said, if you can get into combat the giant punches pretty damn hard for his point cost until he is beat up.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah I think that's the thing.  He can be a real hard hitter at full pelt.  But the main issue I have with him is how rare that is in practice - his save is terrible and he degrades very quickly. 

Even a basic 5 Judicators will have him bleeding heavily before he gets into the fray.

I do run them in casual games but mainly for the love. 

I will never forget one game under the first GH where we had a chain reaction against me that my first Gargant died, fell into another who then also died, and in turn fell onto my Arachnarok and killed it. Timber -> Timber -> Splat!

[Banglesprout]

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

3 x 160 = 480 

So unless you're playing 2500 points you'd still be capped at 2?

... I have no idea what I was thinking.. Somehow in my mind it came to 380, it was late ok? ?

[Peter (Age of Miniatures)]

I too am mildly miffed about the lack of content. But correct me if I am wrong, but so far we have only had a faction focus for factions that have either a battletome or allegiance abilities in GH17. The one exception being the Grots. Hint on a battletome? And maybe not even Moonclan only, but all of the grots? 

[Sheriff]

There's still hope for improvement, but this teaser was concerning as it basically said nothing is changing other than allies points changing, not that grots need allies any way as we have no allegiance to pick anyway. 

Reasons for hope:

1. We have some decent command ability combos, unlike many armies. Not great, but decent enough to wipe out a third of someone's army in a turn. 
2. Fanatics - they are a big deal for preventing nasty opponent command ability wombo-combos, and then perfectly setting up for own counter combo. Not many armies can do this, and means we don't need a chaff-screen. 
3. Bravery is gunna be less of a big deal in 2nd edition, whereby a bravery 10 unit will get clobbered by a 3x command ability wombo combo and suffer a brutal battleshock test regardless. 
4. Turn 1 charge is now a thing for grots, and means we now tick a capability box that we never used to - could mean the difference between a win and a loss in some cases. 
5. Points cost reductions might be substantial (not including the gargant...), which in combination with turn 1 charges could be brutal, crippling an opponent's army before they can summon or fight back effectively.
6. Moonclan shaman is probably the cheapest source of +2 to cast in the game, and if the new spells are a big deal then this is good for us. 
7. Gordrakk. 
8. Getting desperate here but a grot soup tome might be a thing? They seem to be talking about grots generally, not just moonclan.
9. New artefacts/spells - too early to tell but there might be some specific item or spell that is particularly great for grots, enough to be a game-changer. 
10. This is pure guesswork but I reckon debuff lists might be good in 2nd edition, whereby -2 to hit could cripple opponents wombo-combos, and we have access to this stuff more easily than other factions. 

[Saiken]

Piggy Backing on your #8 !

That's exactly what it makes me feel like. It's kind of weird they decide to put Grots as a faction for the focus.
I bet we might get surprised, and it might not be only a Moonclan Battletome ?

My Spiderfang might finally see some painting ...

[mDaro]

I would prefer a "Grot" battletome to just a Moonclan. It would be much nicer (IMO) to have access to other things and still have synergy between the units without using allies.

Plus I've converted 20 Spider riders to night goblins and would love to run them in a non generic destruction list!

[mDaro]

 

[Skabnoze]

I don't discount a "soup" style book at some point, but I don't feel that GW is going to lump all grots into the same bucket.  If they make a Legions of Nagash style book then I get the feeling that it would most likely be for all of Destruction.  If they do decide to make a book for a subset of Destruction then I think they would split it as one for Orcs & Goblins and one for Ogres.

Now, if they do make an anthology style book then I would not be surprised to see an all-grot soup allegiance in that book.  But just watching how they have been managing releases for Age of Sigmar they have been doubling down hard on very specific themes.  Grots are all over the place when it comes to themes.  Moonclan does not visually or thematically fit in with Gitmob or Spiderfang.  Spiders thematically fit for caves, but the goblins themselves don't fit.  Not to mention they worship different aspects of Gorkamorka.  I think that if a battletome with moonclan stuff in it is on the horizon that it will be a full Moonclan book.  That just seems to be the direction that GW is moving in and they have been pretty consistent about that.

My feeling is that we will probably see a few Destruction Battletomes released for individual allegiances, or maybe a reiussue of an existing one, and some named characters added before we get an anthology soup tome.  It feels to me like they need to get some named Warbosses out across the factions (aside from Gordrakk) before  an anthology tome would really work.  Now, they could also possibly accomplish that by releasing those charcters in the anthology tome and an associated model release - I would not rule that out either.

[Saiken]

To be fair, I'd be very happy with any of these solution really

[Sheriff]

3 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

Moonclan does not visually or thematically fit in with Gitmob or Spiderfang.

u wot m8?

[Skabnoze]

Nothing against your army, but I still don’t think the aboriginal forest goblins visually fit with the hooded night goblins. Your army looks great and well painted, but I still feel that those two subfactions are both visually and thematically fairly different from each other.