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Tom Loyn

Events UK: London's Calling 1-2 April 2017

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On 07/03/2017 at 9:19 AM, davidslv said:

Hi Tom,

I'll try my best to attend, would be awesome to practice before actually going to the tournament. What time (roughly) do people normally appear and stay on Wednesdays?

Also, I would like to know what are the painting requirements, I'm quite worried that I might not have all my models painted and I know people have been trying to imply some minimum acceptable standards to participate in tournaments. Right now I only have about 16 models painted and at least 30 more to go.

 

On 07/03/2017 at 9:43 AM, TheInsideMan said:

The pack says minimum of 3 different colours required.

Hi David, 

3 colours minimum is required, people attending will ideally want to play against painted armies.  What are you planning to bring?  Khorne?  Several members of the club have khorne armies (myself included!) so if you want to borrow some bits that may well be possible :) 

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Hi @Tom Loyn

I just wanted to be sure I was doing everything correct, it seems I am.

I'm planning to bring Khorne indeed. I think I have all the models I need. I'm in the painting process at the moment and some are still to arrive (hopefully by Friday). I believe I'll have the necessary time to assemble and paint. I'll keep the list a secret - but I can guarantee there's nothing exaggerated.

Thanks for offering,

David

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12 hours ago, davidslv said:

Hi @Tom Loyn

I just wanted to be sure I was doing everything correct, it seems I am.

I'm planning to bring Khorne indeed. I think I have all the models I need. I'm in the painting process at the moment and some are still to arrive (hopefully by Friday). I believe I'll have the necessary time to assemble and paint. I'll keep the list a secret - but I can guarantee there's nothing exaggerated.

Thanks for offering,

David

Well if you need to borrow any skullcrushers (3), slaughter priest (1) or Chaos Warriors (30), just shout. They're not all painted but I could easily get them done by the tournament. Also have spare blood secrators, blood stoker and mighty lord of Khorne all painted.

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3 hours ago, Gitli said:

Well if you need to borrow any skullcrushers (3), slaughter priest (1) or Chaos Warriors (30), just shout. They're not all painted but I could easily get them done by the tournament. Also have spare blood secrators, blood stoker and mighty lord of Khorne all painted.

I might be interested in borrowing 30 blood warriors for this mate.

 

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1 hour ago, Sehryth7 said:

I might be interested in borrowing 30 blood warriors for this mate.

 

It is just chaos warriors rather than blood warriors. But if you want to borrow them you're welcome to. 

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7 hours ago, Gitli said:

It is just chaos warriors rather than blood warriors. But if you want to borrow them you're welcome to. 

Nice!  I also have 10 blood warriors, 60 odd bloodletters, 10 Wrathmongers and some assorted characters.

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9 hours ago, Lauderon said:

Hi,

Just sent the payment through. Looking forward to trying my first tournament!

 

Ben

That's great, Ben!  Looking forward to meeting you.  What's your second name?

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11 hours ago, Tom Loyn said:

That's great, Ben!  Looking forward to meeting you.  What's your second name?

Hi Tom, it's Ben Murphy. It will be good to meet some more local people that play.  

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FAQs for London's Calling 2017
We're going to apply the following FAQs at London's Calling 2017. These FAQs supplement and add to the official GW FAQs (the December ones with the Magenta amendments on them); and the House Rules of the SCGT pack. Most of these are clarifications of specific rules, particularly new rules from the latest Battletomes, rather than changes to core mechanics which would have broader effects. They have been developed independently from the SCGT pack to address issues that are frequently discussed on TGA. The TOs at the SCGT may decide the answers differently. We've done a fair number of practice games on the DoT side of things in particular (stretching back to my Fatesworn Warband of summer 2016) and a lot of theoryhammering.
 
We would welcome any feedback on these FAQ answers (from attendees or otherwise) both before and after the event. We may make further tweaks to these prior to the event.
 
Stormcast Eternals
Q: Can I use pointed Battalions in the General's Handbook (e.g. Warrior Brotherhood, Skyborne Slayers, Wardens of the Realmgate) even though they are not on the Stormcast Eternals Battletome?
 
A: Yes.
 
Q: Is the Baleful Realmgate included within the cost of the Wardens of the Realmgate?
 
A: Yes (please note that this was ruled the same way at The Warlords and Heat One).
 
Q: Do Aetherwings have the option of using Watchful Guardians to make a charge?
 
A: Yes. This rule allows for a move in the start of your opponent's charge phase. Interpreted purposively this can be a charge but doesn't need to be a charge (you can but need not end the move within 3" of an enemy model). For simplicity's sake, any buffs to charge moves (e.g. reroll charge rolls) will affect any move using Watchful Guardians. If your opponent has any ability that activates at the start of the charge phase (e.g. Fanatics), then the opponent can choose the order in which these "simultaneous" abilities take place, as it is necessarily the opponent's turn (see the Hints and Tips in each Battletome).
 
Q: How does the Shockbolt Bow (D6 wound rolls on a hit) work with the Vanguard Wing battalion's Bearers of the Storm ability (6 or higher to hit "make two wound rolls rather than one"); and the prayer Bless Weapons (6 or more to hit generates another attack)?
 
A: If you roll a 6+ to hit, then the initial attack will cause D6+1 wound rolls (so the abilities do synergise but by addition, rather than multiplication - so it's not 2D6 wound rolls). Furthermore, you will also get to roll an additional attack with the Shockbolt Bow (which would lead to another D6 wound rolls if it hits). 
 
It's worth noting that the Lord Celestant's Furious Retribution Command Ability only works in the combat phase. 
 
Sylvaneth
Q: How does the Tanglethorn Thicket ability of Kurnoth Hunters work?
 
A: Tanglethorn Thicket can be activated at the start of any charge phase and lasts until the end of that turn! This means that it never works during any shooting phase (as shooting phase precedes the charge phase). Furthermore, as it happens at the start of the charge phase - the Kurnoth Hunters can never charge after using Tanglethorn Thicket (as a charge is a type of move - see the FAQ for The Rules - the table of types of move in magenta text).
 
Q: How does the core rule "re-rolls happen before modifiers to the roll (if any) are applied." interact with rerolling failed saves from Tanglethorn Thicket?

A: The reroll can only happen before the modifier takes place - so you must decide whether to reroll the failed saves on the basis of the unmodified rolls.  
The difficulty is that you cannot say whether the save would be successful until after the modifier has been applied. This means that - irrespective of the rend, cover, mystic shield or other modifiers) - only natural rolls of 1, 2 or 3 can be "failed" saves (as a 4+ is a "successful" save).
 
In practical terms:
 
  • As the rule is discretionary (not mandatory), if the Kurnoth Hunters are in cover against rend "-", then you can choose not to reroll a natural roll of 3 (as you know that you will pass the save once the modifier (cover) is applied.
  • The situation where the result differs from the oversimplified "3+ rerollable save" is against rend. If the Kurnoth Hunters are in cover but against -2 rend, then the modifier is -2+1= -1. Here, a natural roll of 4 cannot be rerolled (as it's not a "failed" save - see above). However, once the modifiers are applied, the 4 becomes a 3 and hence that save does indeed fail. 
  • This is a small nerf to Kurnoth Hunters as it makes them more susceptible to rend. However, it is also an application of the core rules. 
  • See below regarding the Paradoxical Shield. 
 
Moonclan Grots
Q: Does each unit of Fanatics need to be deployed as a "drop"? What is the effect of the FAQ answer on including several independent units of Fanatics within one unit of Moonclan Grots?
 
A: Yes - each unit has to be deployed as a drop.
 
Our understanding is that the purpose of the FAQ answer was to stop players deploying a unit of (say) 6 Fanatics within one host unit of Moonclan Grots and then releasing the Fanatic models individually as ones or twos - in order to reduce the number of drops on the army and gain an unfair advantage of flexibility (as small units being to block charges in the opponent's turn or as large units for offence in the Moonclan player's turn).
 
Hence, you can still deploy (say) a unit of 6 Fanatics and a unit of 2 Fanatics within one host unit of Moonclan Grots (which would be two drops - three if you include the host unit of Moonclan Grots) and choose to release one Fanatic unit but not the other at the start of any charge phase (or you could choose to release both).
 
Disciples of Tzeentch
Q: If a Warscroll is a Wizard and has Mortal and Daemon can I take a spell from both the Lore of Fate and the Lore of Change?
 
A: No - you can choose one spell total from either the Lore of Fate or the Lore of Change (not both).
 
Q: Is "Flamer"/"Flamers" a keyword both times that it appears in the text of The Exalted Conflagration (rather than a unit name, i.e. intended to refer to Flamers of Tzeentch - a unit name)? 
 
A: Yes. It is a keyword both times (despite not being in bold - this appears to be a typo). 

Q: How do Changehost swaps work? 

A: You can swap different pairs of units, so a given unit can be in two or more different pairs of unit (provided that the exact pair is not swapped twice or more).

If you have sufficient units in the Battalion (9, 18 etc.) for multiple swaps in the hero phase, then each swap is an independent ability; and there is no requirement to do the swaps simultaneously or one after another. 

Q: Can I use Changehost swaps to swap a Lord of Change or other wizard with another Hero Wizard in the Changehost battalion which is on the upper platform of a Balewind Vortex?

A: No.

While very inventive, this is just going to provoke controversy.

The same would apply to Skitterleap. 

Q: How can I deploy The Changeling?

The wording as regards timing is ambiguous (it doesn't say "after set-up is complete" for example, which would be a defined point in the core rules).

We've interpreted this as requiring that the Changeling deploy as a "drop" as normal along with your other units (rather than deploying after set-up is complete).

The wording as regards location is also ambiguous.

We've interpreted this as allowing The Changeling to deploy in the enemy territory (rather than only in the deployment zone as specified by the Battleplan).

Please note that the first ruling is a nerf to The Changeling while the latter is a buff to The Changeling - the overall effect is broadly neutral. However, the opponent cannot simply bubble wrap the Changeling with chaff models during deployment as a trivial counter.

The first sentence of Arch-Deceiver is optional ("you can set up"), so you can still deploy the Changeling in your own deployment zone as specified by the Battleplan instead (and the rest of the Arch Deceiver rule applies as normal, i.e. enemy units will still treat it as part of their army).

Q: Are Mortal Wounds considered to be "damage" e.g. for the purposes of substituting a Destiny Dice for a "Damage roll" or for adding up the damage inflicted by a unit of Bloodletters attacking a Stonehorn in melee before halving?

Yes.

Q: Assuming that you have the available reinforcement points is it mandatory to use Split and Split Again? 

A: No. In general, the use of any rule that requires reinforcement points is at the discretion of the player (other examples include Neferata's Mortarch of Blood ability.

Q: In Matched play, how do I deal with "undersized" units (e.g. when creating 6 Blue Horrors from using Split from 3 Pink Horrors or when I summon 2 D6 Dryads)?

A: On the basis of "you get what you pay for" and to avoid excessive bookkeeping, when a new unit is created using such rules - you must decide how many reinforcement points you are subtracting from your pool. The points subtracted then determine the maximum size of the unit. You can top up the number of models to that maximum size even if the unit was summoned/set up initially below that size.

For example, a Branchwraith can summon a unit of 8 Dryads after the player decides to subtract 120 points from the pool of reinforcement points. A Gnarlroot Wizard can then top up the unit by D3 models using Verdurous Harmony. However, if the result is that 3 models are added, then only 2 can be added as the player has only paid for 10 models (not 20 or 30).

After 3 Pink Horrors die in the shooting phase, a player can subtract 50 points for a unit of 10 Blue Horrors, but only gets to deploy 6 models at the end of that phase. If 4 more Pink Horrors die in the Combat Phase, the player can top up the 6 Blues to 10 models (but not more) without paying reinforcement points (as normal); and optionally create another unit of 10 Blue Horrors (for a further 50 points), but only gets to deploy 4 models.

If 8 Blue Horrors die on the combat phase, then the player can choose to spend 40, 80 or 120 points for a unit of 10, 20 or 30 Brimstone Horrors, but only gets to deploy 8 models at the end of that phase (in all 3 cases). These can then be topped up subsequently to the maximum size paid for (i.e. 10, 20 or 30).

Q: Is a summoned Wizard a "Wizard in a Tzeentch Army" and hence entitled to choose a spell from the appropriate Lore?

A: Yes.

Q: Can I choose to deploy a unit of 10 Chaos Warriors as 9 models within the Fatesworn Warband even though the minimum unit size of the unit in the General's Handbook is 10 models?

A: No.

Q: How does the core rule "re-rolls happen before modifiers to the roll (if any) are applied." interact with rerolling successful saves from the Paradoxical Shield?

A: The reroll can only happen before the modifier takes place - so you must (it's mandatory) reroll the successful saves on the basis of the unmodified rolls.

The difficulty is that you cannot say whether the save would be successful until after the modifier has been applied. This means that for a 4+ save - irrespective of the +2 to save modifier from Paradoxical Shield, rend, cover, mystic shield or other modifiers) - only natural rolls of 4, 5 and 6 can be "successful" saves (as a 4+ is a "successful" save) - these must be rerolled. Meanwhile, natural rolls of 2 or 3 aren't "successful" saves and don't have to  
 
A few notes by way of explanation (bearing the name of the shield in mind):
 
  • "If this was interpreted literally for a 4+ save, then it would lead to the absurdity (and literally a paradox) that rolls of 2 and 3 would be unsuccessful saves, so they wouldn't be saved, but then you would add 2, so they would then be successful (which is a paradox or a contradiction as the saves are both successful and not successful)."
  • "On reflection, maybe that was what they intended. I'm starting to doubt myself - damn you Kairos - sowing doubts in frail mortal minds!" 
  • "the point here may be that it really is intended to cause a paradox/mess with your minds, as that's very Tzeentchy."  

Chaos

Q: I have painted Slambo and want to include him in my army, what can I do?
 
A: We of the South London Legion believe that one can never have too much Slambo. Slambo is so awesome that any Chaos army would welcome him with open axes. Accordingly Slambo can be included in any Chaos army (for his points cost) and can assume any allegiance - i.e. be taken without affecting/breaking allegiance (however, he does not gain any keywords during the game as a result). For example Slambo can be taken in a Tzeentch Allegiance army or a Moulder Allegiance army.
 
Q: Can I wear a Slambo outfit?
 
A: Yes.
 
Reinforcement Points

Q: Do I need to subtract reinforcement points from my pool in order to use Skarr Bloodwrath's The Slaughterborn, Vlad Von Carstein's Carstein Ring or the Flamespyre Phoenix? 

A: No.
 
The FAQ answer regarding the Ring of Immortality (subtracting reinforcement points for this) was a specific nerf to that ability, when it could readily have been stated as a general principle. These abilities (which aren't automatic - especially the 4+ for the Flamespyre Phoenix) are baked into the costs of these Warscrolls.
 
Q: If I dismiss a Balewind Vortex at the start of my hero phase using the Held Aloft ability, can I summon it back again later in the game (in a different position and optionally using a different Wizard casting the spell Summon Balewind Vortex) without subtracting an additional 100 reinforcement points from my pool?
 
Yes. You've already paid for it. The words "until it is summoned again" suggest that you can bring it back after dismissing it.
 
  • You still have to attempt to cast the Summon Balewind Vortex spell again when you summon it in the new position. 
  • You do not regain the reinforcement points when you dismiss the Balewind, so you cannot for example choose to dismiss the Balewind Vortex and then summon 10 Bloodletters instead using the same reinforcement points. The reinforcement points have been committed to the Balewind Vortex.  
  • If the Wizard on top of the upper platform is slain, then the Balewind Vortex is removed and your opponent is credited with kill points for killing the Balewind Vortex equal to the reinforcement points subtracted to summon it.

Allegiance

Q: How do I work out the Allegiance of my army?

A: It's basically a two step process: 

  1. List building: You write the list for the army on the basis of any Allegiance that you can satisfy.
  2. Choice of Allegiance pack: Then you pick the Allegiance pack based on any allegiance that you can satisfy.

Significantly you don't then redo step 1 after doing step 2. 

The best example is Ironjawz, who have no inherent Battleline units and no allegiance pack of their own. They build a list using the fact that some of their units become Battleline if you satisfy Ironjawz Allegiance. Then they choose the Destruction Allegiance pack (invariably) - this doesn't stop their Brutes from being Battleline.

Further important points:

  1. A unit within a Battalion can gain the Allegiance stamped on that Battalion.
  2. However, Battalions by themselves don't break allegiance, so "A Battalion can still be part of any allegiance that all its units have on their warscrolls." This is a new rule in the DoT book (page 95, point 4). 

A good example of point 2, is that 10 units (including at least one hero) with the Slaves to Darkness and Tzeentch keywords in the Everchosen Battalion the Fatesworn Warband satisfy the following 4 Allegiances: Chaos, Tzeentch, Slaves to Darkness and Everchosen. This means that you can take Knights and Marauder Cavalry as Battleline for list building purposes and still choose Tzeentch allegiance. 

Garrisoning Buildings

Q: Can I garrison a building if there is an enemy unit within 3" of that building or within 3" of my unit at the start of the movement phase (which is the only time when you can garrison according to the Warscroll for the Skull Keep)?

A: No to both questions.

Miscellaneous

Do First of the Mortarchs, the Balewind Vortex and the Astrolith Bearer affect all ranges of spells?

Yes - they affect unit-to-unit ranges, all models/units within a range from a unit type ranges; and any other types of ranges within a spell.

Slaying heroes/monsters with special weapons

Q: How do weapons which have a special rule if they "kill" an enemy hero/monster work given that the opponent has the right to allocate damage from your unit when you attack with multiple weapons (e.g. Mortarch of Blood, Archaon's Triple Headed Monstrosity and Gordrakk's Strength from Victory).

A: To avoid the opponent rigging this (choosing damage to another weapon as the final wound to allocate - assuming that this is even possible) or you having to roll attacks one at a time, if the weapon in question contributes any damage to the target hero/monster which then dies from the attacking unit's melee attacks (all in the course of the same pile in and attack), then the buff triggers. For Gordrakk, you can pick which of Smasha or Kunnin' gets the buff (not both weapons from a single slain hero).

Edited by Nico
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Q: Are Mortal Wounds considered to be "damage" e.g. for the purposes of substituting a Destiny Dice for a "Damage roll" or for adding up the damage inflicted by a unit of Bloodletters attacking a Stonehorn in melee before halving?

A: Yes.

Hi @Ben Johnson, sorry to pull you in, but the above question ("Can you use Destiny Dice for mortal wounds?")  is coming up all the time, and really needs an official answer, especially before AdeptiCon.

Edited by scrubyandwells
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I would like to add another question to the FAQ, regarding Skarr, when he dies, do bring him back to the table, do I need to pay for his cost again?

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Q: Are Mortal Wounds considered to be "damage" e.g. for the purposes of substituting a Destiny Dice for a "Damage roll" or for adding up the damage inflicted by a unit of Bloodletters attacking a Stonehorn in melee before halving?

A: Yes.

Hi @Ben Johnson, sorry to pull you in, but the above question ("Can you use Destiny Dice for mortal wounds?")  is coming up all the time, and really needs an official answer, especially before AdeptiCon.

Our practice games to date have led us to this answer (as well as what the author of the book said on the Livestream). Not a large sample of games yet, but so far we've found that Destiny Dice often allow for a powerful and reliable burst of damage turn one - particularly from Rob Bradley @Leonardas using his Changehost/The Hosts Duplicitous list. After that, the army becomes a lot weaker as the game goes on as one would expect. 

While 6 mortal wounds seems scary, it's the bread and butter of Mixed Destruction lists spamming Thundertusks. There are few counters to Thundertusks, whereas strong unbinding (e.g. Spellweavers, Liche Priests, Arkhan); Gryph Hounds (to limit swapping); and long range pew pew to take out the heroes are counters.  

If you get a cluster of 2s and 3s for Destiny Dice, then that can be very limiting. Interestingly when Rob took on Ben's Beastclaw plus Kunning Rukk Arrers list, he started really well with two 6s, two 5s and a 1 as Destiny Dice; and killed a Thundertusk turn one. Nevertheless, the game was very close (an initiative roll the other way would have swung it from a minor victory to Rob to a win for Ben).

Overall we didn't find the use of Destiny Dice for Mortal Wounds to be overpowered at 2,000 points. It might be a lot stronger at 1,000 or 500 points (LoC and 2 Battleline Units would be up there with the Battlebrew Arachnorok and 2 x 5 Spiders; and a lot weaker at 2,500 or more.

Edited by Nico

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I would like to add another question to the FAQ, regarding Skarr, when he dies, do bring him back to the table, do I need to pay for his cost again?

I've added this one to the list.  

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Battleplans for London's Calling 2017

London's Calling 2017 is a 5 game event. To ease the painting burden and to speed things up on the day, we've decided to run the SCGT Battleplans in order, while omitting Battleplan 5 ("Realm Gate Wars") - so

Day 1: Battleplans 1, 2, 3. 

Day 2: Battleplans 4 and 6.

You would not need to bring Realmgates on the day, but feel free to do so if you've painted them for SCGT already - you and your opponent may be happy to agree to add them as terrain. 

 

Edited by Nico

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

Battleplans for London's Calling 2017

London's Calling 2017 is a 5 game event. To ease the painting burden and to speed things up on the day, we've decided to run the SCGT Battleplans in order, while omitting Battleplan 5 ("Realm Gate Wars") - so

Day 1: Battleplans 1, 2, 3. 

Day 2: Battleplans 4 and 6.

You would not need to bring Realmgates on the day, but feel free to do so if you've painted them for SCGT already - you and your opponent may be happy to agree to add them as terrain. 

 

That's a good call on both decisions, 

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Should we make the FAQ a PDF and add it to the first post?

Also would be interesting to know how many are we and update the first post with the name of people that is attending the event.

I'm looking forward to play and meet new people :)

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If anyone is up for a practice game tomorrow afternoon/evening, then pop down to the South London Legion:

 

Edited by Nico

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Hey, is this still open for sign up? Wanted to make sure I got enough of my army painted before committing, ha!

Leo

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