ElectricPaladin Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 As I understand it, the (surviving) gods of the Mortal Realms are: Sigmar - Celestial Gorkamorka - Beasts Grimnir (Sorta?) - Fire Gurgni - Metal Teclis & Tyrion - Light Alarielle - Life Nagash - Death Malekith - Darkness And then you have the four and a half Ruinous Powers: Khorne Nurgle Tzeentch The Horned Rat Slaanesh My question is, what are their relative power levels? Not their ability to wage war, their personal power? If you put Nagash and Sigmar in a room, who would come out? What about any of the mortal gods and the Ruinous Powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstedt Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 If Gordrakk is indeed made from a small fragment of the knucklebone of Gorkamorka, think how strong Gorkamorka themselves would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead4Life Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Nagash for sure; everything dies! The master of entropy will be the last entity left when the universe fizzles out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braggoth Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 From what I've read, Gorkamorka and Sigmar are on par, they've had contest hitting each other with THE Warhammer for fun, and have eating contests and stuff (one drank the ocean, the other ate a mountain... lol?) So I guess that these two are the best for their own allegiance. Nagash is the best for Death (duh...), as for the chaos I'd say Tzeentch, he has the power to control and bend people and gods to his will. Four way tie between the four? I don't know, I have limited knowledge on the lore, so I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrAiKo Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 My question is why are some gods able to be represented in miniature form and some aren't (eg. they use avatars such as Greater Daemons)? Will we see a Sigmar mini? As for power level, how does Skarbrand fare against Alarielle or Nagash in game? If he gives either of them a run for their money, then can we assume Khorne would deal with them in a similar fashion to how he dealth with Skarbrand? (i.e. rekt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 2 hours ago, BrAiKo said: Will we see a Sigmar mini? I doubt it. But he does have his own chosen champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Several lore wise truth. Sigmar is almost even against Archaon. They fought for several times face to face but Sigmar is not really overwhelming in anyway. Actually with power from the four Archaon really pushed Sigmar back and made him feel deseparate and throw away his hammer as last effort. Sigmar and Gorkamorka fought for 12 days and they are at same level. They crashed a mountain to pieces during this fight. Though I doubt the drink ocean and eat mountain fluff is really true... Nagash got crashed by Archaon in a lightning strike battle and one to one duel. Sigmar isn't really that immense. In Bladestorm series story Sigmar viewed his host inside Sigmaron. As discribed, he sit-on the throne and normal Stromcast only need to slightly raise their head to meet his eyes. Seems like he has a similar size as Archaon or Alarielle. Alarielle killed one or two Bloodthirsts with some effort but clearly she overpowered those great deamons of chaos. In fluff and Godbeast, seems like the original god beasts like Dracotheon/ mother of Salamandar are as powerful as those gods. Grimnir died fighting one of them does mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlzee Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 In one of the stories, a large Host of Khorne Daemons including several Bloodthirsters have besieged a Heavily Magical race of Giants. They have no luck in breaking the magical defences until Khorne himself comes down and steps on the thing. Breaking all the magical defences etc. He is then so mad at his Bloodthirster General he bounds it to the place to return every night in a violent rage of destruction. The Chaos Gods are clearly more powerful than any of the other Gods by a long way, they just have trouble manifesting in the mortal realms. Khorne is currently the Chaos God in Ascendancy, and is the strongest. But with the Return of Sigmar and the Stormcast I believe he is losing his power. Perhaps Tzeentch will come into Ascendancy? As is the way with the Chaos Gods, when one gets too strong the others usually band together to take him down. Which is part of the Reason Chaos never really get a 'complete' win. There are several suggestions in the books that Archaon is on he's way to Godhood, or atleast Demi-Godhood. Which makes sense, as he hates all the Chaos Gods, and is of equal power to Sigmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 It's gotta be between chaos, they're literally fighting all the time, even when allied for a common cause they'd rather see it fail than let the others become stronger. I may be wrong with this as I read it a while ago. khorne has 8 tiers of 8 bloodthirsters, each blood thirster is essentially a unit captain who controls 8 bloodthirsters. So that's 8^2 8 times per tier. That's a lot of bloodthirsters, each comes with an army. If khorne sent them all to fight, he would most certainly win. And skarbrand, the strongest of all bloodthirsters didn't even scratch khorne armour, khorne is immune to magic so good luck fighting him in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Business (the true source of it all in this case) Their existence is a result of the need for stories that fuel novels that support and perhaps drive the production and sale of lots of little models to us. In that sense, there needs to be armies, not just solo agents of unstoppable destruction. One God cannot be all powerful or even directly interfere. But what about Avatars? Well when we are given an Avatar it's function is to be awesome but also to be played with. It must therefore be somewhat game balanced. This has the effect of skewing any comparable power in the fluff. "Alarielle may be strong as X in the fluff but last Wednesday Sven and Tom fought it out and Alarielle lost her last wound to a skeleton archer. Khorne is obviously stronger." This isn't a valid comparison where an avatar model is concerned. It's handicapped and it is just business. They're cool though, I want to see more but I would argue that the Avatars are much watered down versions of anything they represent. To the extent that they can be ignored for this thread (though maybe someone has other good points that counter that). Narrative (the mind-candy sold to us to make the business taste sweeter) The Gods in AoS are a good and evil pantheon. I would imagine that a pantheon is just more colourful and fun and allows for a greater range of variety in their mortal followers. All checkboxes for building a wargame business. Godhood is a flexible concept in this pantheon. There have been elevations and descensions as mortals, demi-gods and gods moved from WHFB lore to AoS lore. Old lore, lore from an old system doesn't count at all. Right now everything is magnified through an awesome 80s rock metal magnifying glass. Warhammer turned to 11. Maybe. Then the question of relative power; I feel it's all about their works. Like the Greek pantheon (and it really works for the business reasons above too) you don't pit them one on one, it's more a comparison of their works. As their works wax and wane you can measure their power, if you really want to. Like Gaiman's 'American Gods' I would argue that the works of the gods in the realms is a reflection of their power. If they're making a big scene in the realms they are in fact more powerful. So in your local club you might have mostly Stormcast players who win lots and in your club Sigmar is supreme. The top dog. But the lore is the way GW sees things. Which is why the lore is super interesting and useful here. In the lore things change so power levels change but right now we're looking at, a top 3 of (forgive me lack of lore knowledge here) roughly: 1. Khorne (descending fast). 2. Sigmar (ascending fast). 3. Probably Archaon as he represents all Chaos gods but is his own agent. 4. Rest of Chaos pantheon topped by Nurgle. That's just my feeling. Sigmar is going to take joint top spot until we see some other interesting model releases that drive new works represented as lovely novels and stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Long time ago back to Sigmar launch, I was about to write an article on how heaviliy Latin and old Greece culture impacts their art and background. I can show a picture showing 'possible version of the collossos Rhodes'. This is a serious staff historical fans put up not designed for AoS. BUt just see how this image fits in Stormcast Eternity. GW pick ancient Greece for many reasons, but I guess the main reason will be 'there are so many fantacy lore coming from middle age'. The old WFB was deeply into mid-age with some flavor of Renassence, but still that is not really unique and doesn't give you too much freedom to differenciate. GW was also troubled by the fact that historical mini manufacture can bring an easy & cheap replacement for their products. The real middle age knight mini really have no difference compare with those in WFB! However, the ancient greece theme is quite special and not that widely used by others. Do you really see any models in the market that can easily replace Stormcast without looking wired? If the art is deeply influenced by ancient Greece, i am not surprised by a pantheon in the game. So talking about the gods in Pantheon, you can also look into Greece Myth to find some insprition. - All the gods in Greece Myth have frequent interaction with human beings even without Avatar. - They are not the only power in the universe. Olympia had problem with Titans and other monsters. In AoS gods also have problems with magic beasts or some very strong native races. - They are powerful but not that powerful like from a different dimension. If a human hero is strong enough, they can impress the gods, or even bring damage to gods and become demi-gods themselves. In AoS it's the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 So, it sounds like what we're saying is... Khorne --> Top god, his power is in ascendancy, though it may be waning. Nurgle --> Runner up, with enough power to take Ghyran. Tzeentch --> Still one of the big four, but not particularly powerful. Doesn't seem to be on the verge of taking any Realms the way Nurgle or Khorne have. Sigmar --> Powerful enough that his avatar is in the same league as some of the other gods in person (ie. Nagash, Alarielle), and his power is on the rise. Gorkamorka --> Also not represented on the tabletop, but their avatar is also a best. Also we have legends that place him roughly on par with Sigmar, but as they aren't doing anything nearly as impressive as the Stormcast, they must have a little less power. Nagash --> Very powerful. I'm inclined to put him here because his incarnation in the game is one of the best. Tyrion/Teclis --> We have very little data on the brother gods of light, except that they beat up Slaanesh and haven't been through the wringer like Alarielle. So I'm putting them here - above Alarielle but below Nagash. If they get badass avatars and the suggestion that they're too powerful to be in the game, I'll move them up; if not. Malekith --> Probably on par with Tyrion and Teclis? Alarielle --> I'm putting her just above the Rat because - like I wrote before - the rat had reason to believe that his spell could transform or destroy her. The Horned Rat --> A young god and - like the gods of the Realms - formerly mortal. No direct conflicts to figure out his power relative to the others. However, we do know that he's powerful enough that he thought that a sorcery empowered by him and channeled through a lowly plague priest could bring down Alarielle, so unless he's completely stupid, he's got to be up there. Grugni --> He's willing to take on a subservient position to Sigmar, which implies that he's not that powerful on his own. Slaanesh --> Low enough down on the power scale that a pair of mortal gods could kick the tar out of him and probably not fully recovered, yet. Grimnir --> We have reason to believe that he's dead. While dead doesn't necessarily mean gone when you're a god, it does seriously limit your ability to get stuff done. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Not sure how we can say khornes power is getting weaker, with all this fighting happening surely he should be stronger, or at least sustaining power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Well, stormcast 'deaths' are no use to him surely. So instead of Khornate minions dying while slaughtering armies who bleed and give up skulls, Khornate minions are dying alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 12 minutes ago, Turragor said: Well, stormcast 'deaths' are no use to him surely. So instead of Khornate minions dying while slaughtering armies who bleed and give up skulls, Khornate minions are dying alone. He gains power from martial combat also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I always thought it was specifically blood and skulls. He and his followers are so focused on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I will even suggest we should not look at things like this... Thinking about Archaon who is strictly speaking not a god. But he can par against Sigmar (not avatar but Sigmar himself) in different battles. Also Grimnir killed by Mothers of Salamandar. While Zodiac beast claim to be one of the most powerful god beasts, but this monster got knocked back by mortal Stromcast host though at great cost. I think in the world of AoS, it is not like the gods are in another universe that mortal's cannot even reach, but really great mortal hero with some powerful relic might be able to compete with the god. Or, even in a really special case, powerful mortal army or host can overwhelm a god with numbers and bing him/her real damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 with regards to Archaons power. it mentions loosely with regards to sigmar and specifically with regards to Nagash. That they were both very worn down before taking on Archaon. Archaon only engaged Nagash in battle AFTER he exhausted him self battering Archaons armies black and blue. I think at the height of his power Nagash would have trounced archaon and have been more powerful then any save the chaos gods. Nagash is still a villain really and like most villains he loses through overconfidence.(Like the skaeven getting the better of him during the endtimes & even his original death at the hands of alcadizzar) I agree with the assesment that the ingame power of the gods cannot be compared to there fluff. Ive seen the a mortarch and a stardrake solo alarielle and win in game. Although im pretty sure she could reck them both in fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith01 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Greek gods are the best equivalent. They had a huge pantheon, interacted directly with mortals, fought each other and started / influenced mortal wars. Maybe Norse gods too. Don't know enough about Egyptian or Indian gods and nothing about the rest. Outside of the games and books that might be the best way to think about them. No God is all powerful and they are always struggling for superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 I don't agree that the power of the model should be ignored entirely. Or, rather, I think that the choice to make a model or not should be considered. Sigmar is clearly not just a coward and neither is it impossible for him to leave Azyr. He hasn't got a model because GW didn't want to make one. Why? What might that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Do also remember that in the old world nagash beats up a god with his fists and he was not even a god yet. All I know is that the chaos gods are above them all and in the case of slaanesh the only reason why it was captured is because tzeentch leaked it's location and malerion and Tyrion could capture slaanesh easily. Plus slaanesh was in the middle of devouring souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrAiKo Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 In the "Mighty Battles" book it has a passage stating that Nurgle, although generally third in power behind Khorne and Tzeentch, has the most fluctuation and can easily eclipse the others at times when plagues etc are at their most virulent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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