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Multiple Small Units vs One Large Unit


BrAiKo

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I've been wondering whether to use multiple minimum sized units vs combining into a single large unit, and there seems to be a fair bit to take into account.  The thing that sparked my interest was actually the release of the fimirach noble (unit champion) for individual sale from forgeworld, and realised that optimum points usage would surely be taking multiple units of 3 troops, each comprised of champ and command groups (rendering regular warriors redundant).  But is this the whole story?   Certainly some units may benefit more at one end of the spectrum than the other.  I was hoping people could add their thoughts to the points I've come up with so far...

EDIT: Updated for GHB2017

 

THE CASE FOR MINIMUM/SMALL UNIT SIZE (MULTIPLE SMALL UNITS)

1.  Flexible deployment/movement.  Multiple separate units can obviously operate independently and can therefore deploy separately, move differently as dictated by the battle and hold different objectives.  This is an obvious tactical benefit, though for the remainder of the comparison we should consider the multiple-small-units option as if they were deployed side-by-side (similarly to how the models would be positioned were it a single large unit) for an even more direct comparison.

2.  Maximum champion saturation.    Multiple units means multiple unit champions, and at no extra point cost in matched play over regular troops.  This usually means a free extra attack per group of minimum unit size troops, or some other similar benefit such as + to hit.

3.  Battleshock resistance.   Just got smashed in a combat and are about to lose a whole bunch of models to battleshock?  Not such a big deal if there's less models remaining in the unit than you would have otherwise had to remove if the unit were larger.   

4.  Battleline requirement.  If the unit is battleline, core tax is more easily achieved with smaller units.

5.  Distribution of attacks/wounds suffered.  Imagine two small units in combat side by side against a broad-fronted larger enemy unit.  If your two small units were in fact a single unit, all wounds suffered would be directed to the same units/model and casualties would be removed as normal.  Now, as two units, half of the enemy can attack each of your units.  As such you may find that each unit will suffer wounds, though due to the split attacks, neither will be enough to trigger a nasty battleshock result.  Additionally, units that replenish (especially undead) can potentially have more troops brought back per turn if multiple small units have each sustained casualties.  Further, for multi-wound models (eg. monstrous infantry), the split wounds suffered means less casualties may be removed.  This is particularly important with my fimir example, because models could heal wounds each turn.  

6.  Efficient in combat.  Once in in combat, smaller units are likely to have all models involved.  Larger units run the risk of having loose models that are out of range and cannot contribute to damage.  This is further exacerbated if the large unit has large bases.

7.  Mixed Arms.  Multiple small units can allow for a mix of weapon options, allowing for a punchy front line and a back line with reach.  For example, a unit of 5 Brutes with Choppas with a unit of 5 Brutes with Gore-Hackas behind.

8.  Blood Tithe.  If you're a Khorne player you want units to die.  Multiple small units means more units dying.  Conversely if you are frequently against Khorne players, you may want to keep your units large.

9.  Resistant to 'Every Model' effects.  Gaunt Summoners, bloodwrack medusae, plagueclaw catapults and friends love targeting single large units, as you roll for damage per model rather than for the unit as a whole.  MSU prevents having juicy targets against these foes.

 

THE CASE FOR LARGE UNIT SIZE

1.  Massive regiments.  New in the GHB2017, this could be the most compelling reason yet to maximise the size of your units.  Many infantry units (usually melee) have received a decent-to-amazing points reduction when the maximum unit size is taken.  Also important is that massive units can trump objectives over a greater number of enemy models from mulitple smaller units in some scenarios.

2.  'Threshold' abilities.  These are the abilities that are added to your unit for having a model count of 20+ or 30+ miniatures.  These are usually quite powerful and often add further survivability or more damage output.  In combination with the above massive regiment discount, some units become amazing at maximum size (eg. Bloodletters, Tzaangors, Skeletons).

3.  Bravery.  Similar to above, larger units have additional bravery for every 10 models. 

4.  Targeted Buffs.  Single units can be buffed with spells such as mystic shield and other abilities.  If only one of multiple units can be targeted, this presents the enemy with opportunity to focus on the non-buffed unit, making your buffs ineffective.

5.  Large footprint for ranged effects/buffs.  A large unit means you are more likely to be in range of 'bubble' effects (totems etc) or friendly spells.  This can also be more easily achieved by large units by having leftover models trailing behind the main mass of troops to ensure you remain in range of the bubble.

6.  Density of attacks.  If positioned such that multiple 'ranks' can attack, larger units can focus more attacks in a smaller area.

7.  Early attacks.  If selected first (or early) in the combat round, a large unit can get all its attacks done before they are hit back and take casualties.  Smaller units in combat simultaneously means some troops will be hit before having a chance to attack.

8.  More easily replenished.  Large units are not as easily wiped out.  This can be important for units that can replenish (especially undead) where they need remaining troops alive to gain the benefit. 

9.  Finishing deployment first.  Less units means you are more likely to be the first player to finish deploying and thus decide first turn priority.

10.  Resistant to Area Effects.  Abilities and effects that target 'every unit in range' will have less targets and potentially cause less total casualties when you have few/large units (eg. vs Drycha Flitterfuries, Bastilodon snakes). 

 

I feel there is plenty of nuance to unit selection given all of the above.  Probably some key summary points would be:

- units with 'threshold' abilities will usually be better condensed into single large units, and with massive regiments discounts it becomes even more efficient to do so

- units that are resilient or aiming to be used for tanking or holding objectives are likely better in larger units, as they are more easily buffed defensively.

- units with small minimum troop numbers (eg monstrous infantry with multiple wounds such as fimir, ogres) will feel greater relative benefit from small units due to the champion saturation and distribution of wounds suffered as mentioned above, as well as having less whole models at risk of being removed to a bad battleshock result.

 

Please add your thoughts below, or any specific unit examples that you have come across.

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Good writeup.  I tend to favor small units, because not only for the reasons you said but it's also often easier to acquire; I absolutely hate having to buy multiple boxes to make a single unit, it feels like I'm being price gouged/ripped off but for whatever reason feels less like I'm being victimized if I buy a second box and get a full extra unit, so that is reason enough for me to prefer small units even when I can benefit from larger ones (e.g. Crypt Ghouls, since they get a bonus for 20+)

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On 10/16/2016 at 4:09 AM, MrCharisma said:

I'm in the large unit size camp. The large unit benefits in the Free Guild outweigh the Battle shock negatives. 

What units would you focus getting the bonus on? Line infantry? Ranged? I am building my guild list and still struggling with what the best composition is...

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59 minutes ago, Cerlin said:

What units would you focus getting the bonus on? Line infantry? Ranged? I am building my guild list and still struggling with what the best composition is...

For guilds I would always look at making any state troopers/ranged infantry big units, the buffs are immense.

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It might be interesting to pick a unit type and discuss some things on a case by case basis:  here's the first example that may not be as clear cut as I first thought.

Skeleton Warriors.

They have a 'threshold' ability where they make extra attacks at 20 and 30 models.  It seems that taking in units of 30-40 would be a no brainer if you have that many models.  However, the situation arose for me today where 2 small units of enemy skeletons were able to tarpit extremely well due to my single unit having to split attacks between them, and each unit then being able to replenish.  You might say that 2 units of 40 skeletons would be the best of both worlds, but this was a 1000pts game, so smaller numbers were required.

 It seems that even a single warscroll can have multiple different useful configurations depending on whether they have an offensive or defensive role in the army.  Anyone else have experience with/thoughts on the skeletons?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 19/10/2016 at 5:54 AM, Cerlin said:

What units would you focus getting the bonus on? Line infantry? Ranged? I am building my guild list and still struggling with what the best composition is...

Units like Crossbowmen are great as a large unit, with double shots. Add a Hurricanum and other buffs from a general and/or wizard then you'll have a high potent unit

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For Skeletons I personally prefer large units. Small ones are too easy to annihilate or render-irrelevant, and if you're running them in 10s they'll only get one attack each, which is piddly. If you've got 30, that suddenly becomes three attacks , and can go up to 4 per model if a Wight King or Vampire Lord is around to use their Command Ability. At that point they become pretty terrifying.

Also Zombies, our other Battleline, literally only function in massive squads. They start at 6+/6+, and gain +1 to each for every ten models, until 30.

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small zombie units are good for fill battle line and can serve  as a nice tax unit that can take objectives or otherwise gum up pile in moves defensively, while also providing some bubble wrap for anti teleportation strats.

Skells make nice small defensive units give them shield and sword and they can do abit of work, and can be a paint to remove as they require an over estimate of commitment.

 

This small units can also really effectively use retreat mechanics.

 

Large units are weak  battleshock in the same way they are strong. a unit of 10 zombies has 11 bravery, but a unit of 20 only has 12.  So if 2 units of 10 zombies each get charged by a unit and lose 5 models each they can't lose any models to battle shock., but a unit of 20 getting charged by 2 units taking away and lose 10 models they start losing models on a single roll of a 3+. 

 

I think armies like storm cast and other bigger base sides armies should be more MSU style while horde armies do abit better in bigger units as they can take advantage of multiple ranks of combat, and get nice wrap arounds. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Nice write up!  You really explain well the benefits and detriments of two different playstyles and army styles.

One additional thing I would like to point out is that there are some cases where more models are beneficial to Heroes or Monsters.  For example, the Weird-nob Shaman and Great Shaman.  They each get bonuses for having more of certain kinds of models around them (10+ and 20+ models, or 20+ models, respectively).  In those cases, the benefits of the larger unit can benefit not just themselves, but some other unit that can also provide further bonuses.  I'm sure there are other examples, but this is one that I know.

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I have been struggling with the same question myself so its great to see that you  list of positives and negatives is pretty much the same as what I was thinking. 

I have played wargames forever but only been playing AoS for a few months so not that experienced but fro what I have learned so far its really usefull to have a flexible "Swiss army knife" list that has options to react to different opponents and battleplans. 

From that point of view I think you need both unit types in your list.

You may not be maximising the benefits but at least you ensure that you get ALL of them accross your army to some extent and you increase your options. It relies more on your skill as a player to use the right units for the right tasks instaed of just sitting back and hoping you optimised the stats/probabilities too so you will probably have more fun.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I have been considering this for a unit I am using for Pestilens which I think is a good candidate for MSU:

Plague Censer Bearers

  • Unit size is 5-20 and the only benefit they get for running a full unit is +2 bravery for 10+ models
  • They have no save and so can easily lose more than 10 models to shooting and battleshock (Bravery 5) and so could benefit greatly from the 'forcing your opponent to risk splitting attacks' aspect of MSU
  • In the Hero phase they have a 3" AoE bubble that does mortal wounds, the idea being that the front 5 models die in combat and the second rank are then free to pile in and survive until their next hero phase  (this one would rely on being charged though)
  • The Plaguesmog battalion allows 2+ units of them, so any number can become a single drop in deployment
  • The buffs available to them come in the form of being within 13" of a unit of monks and prayers de-buffing their targets  with Wither prayer Spam (+1 to wound cast on enemy unit) and so they don't lose out on that front.

I think that covers the list, though I may have missed some. I am looking for someone with more experience in the game to sanity check my thoughts really :)

 

 

 

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Death consideration - regen in small units is more effective if they survive. E.g. 3 x 5 blood knights potentially regen 3 models per turn, whereas 1 x 15 only regens one.

Similarly 1 x 40 skeletons regens 1d6 skeletons per turn, 4x10 skeletons regens 4d6 per turn. 

However the smaller units are more likely to get wiped out completely and therefore not regenerate at all

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I’m trying to figure out the best option for Brayherd troops here. I’m building 1000 points from the old Battalion box (plus the Warherd allies box, a Beastlord and a Bray-Shaman) and I’m waffling between a block of 20 Gors with shields or 10 each with shields and dual hand weapons. It doesn’t really feel like the Anarchy and Mayhem bonus will be worth it since they’ll lose that with their very first casualty, and while I haven’t done the mathhammer or played enough to have a sense for this yet, it seems like Battleshock will deplete a larger unit more than the meager Bravery bonus will help unless I take it well past 20.

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I just had another consideration for MSU versus fewer bigger units (which I hereby dub to be FBUs!) to think about: Blades of Khorne Blood Tithe points.  If my larger unit of 15 Brutes survives three rounds of combat, then that denies the Khorne player a Blood Tithe point until later in the game.  But if he wipes out the same number of models in three different units with 5 models each, then that's 3 Blood Tithe points.

And in that same vein, wouldn't a Blades of Khorne player want to have MSU for their army as that would buff up their Blood Tithe points pool?  Or do the benefits of the FBU outweigh the Blood Tithe?  Food for thought for the Khorne players.

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16 hours ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

I just had another consideration for MSU versus fewer bigger units (which I hereby dub to be FBUs!) to think about: Blades of Khorne Blood Tithe points.  If my larger unit of 15 Brutes survives three rounds of combat, then that denies the Khorne player a Blood Tithe point until later in the game.  But if he wipes out the same number of models in three different units with 5 models each, then that's 3 Blood Tithe points.

And in that same vein, wouldn't a Blades of Khorne player want to have MSU for their army as that would buff up their Blood Tithe points pool?  Or do the benefits of the FBU outweigh the Blood Tithe?  Food for thought for the Khorne players.

Depends on how you're playing your BoK army.  Blood Tithe is generally pretty situational but if you've that playstyle in mind you tend to stock up on MSU and some of the other abilities that grant you bonus Blood Tithe, if you're not then you tend to build your army "however".

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Nice topic!

I´d like to add that while beneficial spells work better on larger units there are several offensive spells which work better aganinst larger units as well. First and most prominent example being the Gaunt Summoners Spell. Same thing with some Warmashines getting bonuses against larger units.

As a SC-Player I genereally prefer MSU, especially combined with the lighntnig strike ability which lets me put those small units all over the board.

Chris

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/25/2017 at 5:52 PM, Primes said:

I´d like to add that while beneficial spells work better on larger units there are several offensive spells which work better aganinst larger units as well. First and most prominent example being the Gaunt Summoners Spell. Same thing with some Warmashines getting bonuses against larger units.

Agreed, Gaunt Summoner's, Bloodwrack Medusae and Plagueclaws love fighting hordes.  Though conversely there are also those spells/effects that hit every unit within a range (Drycha, Snakes-on-a-Don) so MSU would suffer in that scenario.

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I have the same dillema with spiderfang spider riders. 1 big blob gets better bravery and can get a single mystic shield, whereas 2-3 small units can be expendable and more mobile / not stuck in combat but at the expense of severe squishiness. 

Gunna try both options and see what works. 

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