WSDdeloach Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 It's not though. "They merge to become a SINGLE unit" so if it's now 30 models.. Then it's a unit of 30 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 That section about max size of unit is just under reinforcements. It doesn't apply when you're not actually adding new models or units to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anangrywalrus Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Anyone knows what happens to the banners. i.e, if I gave 3 units of 20 all with banners and they merge do I roll for each standered or per unit to regain models. I believe its per unit, but I just want to be 100 percent on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ademo Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Yeh warscroll states: roll if the unit contains 'any' standards. So regardless of number of banners in the unit just 1d6Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I belive that most consider that when these units combine they become technically become a new unit. Therefore the starting size can increase. As for going over 60? i think 60 as a limit is very fair so i havent looked into it in to much detail. However this would mean that unit size caps dont apply to any unit brought into the game after the setup phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Two or more zombie units can merge in matched play, but you can not go above 60 zombies according to the last faq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 29 minutes ago, Razorfate said: Two or more zombie units can merge in matched play, but you can not go above 60 zombies according to the last faq. There you go then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I know this is an old thread but I've been looking into Shambling Horde and I'm getting really confused. The information just seems so conflicting. The GHB errata states: Q: The Pitched Battle rules say that I have to include a certain number of Battleline units in my army. If I include them on the roster, can I choose to merge them into a single large unit when I set up? A: No. Pretty straightforward. Basically, this means that a massive benefit of zombies (e.g. taking 3x20 and then merging) is completely nerfed out of the game. A pretty harsh decision considering they're really not the best unit in the game at 60 models and definitely not at 10-30. Going by this, when can you use Shambling Horde then? The rules for reinforcements imply that you can’t summon (using reinforcement points) and then combine with a unit already on the table. The only way I can think is that zombies aren’t taken as battleline and you can then really go to town with the ability… but this just seems ridiculous and costly as you would have to take skellies for battleline. However, the Death errata states: Q: Can I use the Zombies’ Shambling Horde ability to create a unit that is larger than the normal maximum unit size for a Zombie unit in a Pitched Battle? Does it cost reinforcement points to use the ability? A: No to both. The way this is written and answered, it implies that Shambling Horde can be used but you can't exceed 60 models. If you couldn’t use the ability (as stated by the GHB errata) the answer to this question would be along the lines of “you can’t use Shambling Horde so the other questions are irrelevant.” There's no mention here if these zombies are battleline or not though. Unless I’m missing something here this just seems silly and should be addressed with a new Death battletome or GHB2. For now, I think I’m just going to bow to house rules… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I know this is an old thread but I've been looking into Shambling Horde and I'm getting really confused. The information just seems so conflicting. The GHB errata states: Q: The Pitched Battle rules say that I have to include a certain number of Battleline units in my army. If I include them on the roster, can I choose to merge them into a single large unit when I set up? A: No. Pretty straightforward. Basically, this means that a massive benefit of zombies (e.g. taking 3x20 and then merging) is completely nerfed out of the game. A pretty harsh decision considering they're really not the best unit in the game at 60 models and definitely not at 10-30. Going by this, when can you use Shambling Horde then? The rules for reinforcements imply that you can’t summon (using reinforcement points) and then combine with a unit already on the table. The only way I can think is that zombies aren’t taken as battleline and you can then really go to town with the ability… but this just seems ridiculous and costly as you would have to take skellies for battleline. However, the Death errata states: Q: Can I use the Zombies’ Shambling Horde ability to create a unit that is larger than the normal maximum unit size for a Zombie unit in a Pitched Battle? Does it cost reinforcement points to use the ability? A: No to both. The way this is written and answered, it implies that Shambling Horde can be used but you can't exceed 60 models. If you couldn’t use the ability (as stated by the GHB errata) the answer to this question would be along the lines of “you can’t use Shambling Horde so the other questions are irrelevant.” There's no mention here if these zombies are battleline or not though. Unless I’m missing something here this just seems silly and should be addressed with a new Death battletome or GHB2. For now, I think I’m just going to bow to house rules… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I know this is an old thread but I've been looking into Shambling Horde and I'm getting really confused. The information just seems so conflicting. The GHB errata states: Q: The Pitched Battle rules say that I have to include a certain number of Battleline units in my army. If I include them on the roster, can I choose to merge them into a single large unit when I set up? A: No. Pretty straightforward. Basically, this means that a massive benefit of zombies (e.g. taking 3x20 and then merging) is completely nerfed out of the game. A pretty harsh decision considering they're really not the best unit in the game at 60 models and definitely not at 10-30. Going by this, when can you use Shambling Horde then? The rules for reinforcements imply that you can’t summon (using reinforcement points) and then combine with a unit already on the table. The only way I can think is that zombies aren’t taken as battleline and you can then really go to town with the ability… but this just seems ridiculous and costly as you would have to take skellies for battleline. However, the Death errata states: Q: Can I use the Zombies’ Shambling Horde ability to create a unit that is larger than the normal maximum unit size for a Zombie unit in a Pitched Battle? Does it cost reinforcement points to use the ability? A: No to both. The way this is written and answered, it implies that Shambling Horde can be used but you can't exceed 60 models. If you couldn’t use the ability (as stated by the GHB errata) the answer to this question would be along the lines of “you can’t use Shambling Horde so the other questions are irrelevant.” There's no mention here if these zombies are battleline or not though. Unless I’m missing something here this just seems silly and should be addressed with a new Death battletome or GHB2. For now, I think I’m just going to bow to house rules… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Hmmm... for some reason that posted multiple times. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightFire Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 49 minutes ago, lare2 said: I know this is an old thread but I've been looking into Shambling Horde and I'm getting really confused. The information just seems so conflicting. The GHB errata states: Q: The Pitched Battle rules say that I have to include a certain number of Battleline units in my army. If I include them on the roster, can I choose to merge them into a single large unit when I set up? A: No. Pretty straightforward. Basically, this means that a massive benefit of zombies (e.g. taking 3x20 and then merging) is completely nerfed out of the game. A pretty harsh decision considering they're really not the best unit in the game at 60 models and definitely not at 10-30. No, your misreading that. What it says is that you cant take 3x20 zombies in your army list as your battleline. Then at set-up, place one unit of 60. It is explicitly talking about set up, (which is a defined thing in the FAQs) not about merging during the game. The second FAQ answer applies (because shambling horde is fine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, KnightFire said: No, your misreading that. What it says is that you cant take 3x20 zombies in your army list as your battleline. Then at set-up, place one unit of 60. It is explicitly talking about set up, (which is a defined thing in the FAQs) not about merging during the game. The second FAQ answer applies (because shambling horde is fine). Ha! I completely missed that "set up" and its implications. You're a star - thank you! From the errata and FAQ then, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with taking 3x20 and then merging after set up. Looks like I need to buy more zombies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastdarkness Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 45 minutes ago, lare2 said: Ha! I completely missed that "set up" and its implications. You're a star - thank you! From the errata and FAQ then, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with taking 3x20 and then merging after set up. Looks like I need to buy more zombies! Yeah it can get a little confusing the wording some times. Now you only gotta worry about big bomb spells/abilitys that will wipe them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihoagland Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Yep. It's mostly so that you still have to deploy 3 units, not 1, for the purposes of determining who gets to decide on turn order. Knightfire is right, you can definitely combine them turn one, you just have to deploy all 3 right next to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 For a game with 'only' 4 pages of rules, figuring out how to play doesn't half give me a headache sometimes! Thanks for everyone helping to clear this up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastdarkness Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 minute ago, lare2 said: For a game with 'only' 4 pages of rules, figuring out how to play doesn't half give me a headache sometimes! Thanks for everyone helping to clear this up for me. Make sure you dont base them too flashy and use aggressive piling in(on top of each others bases) to really get as many attacks in as you can. Im switching many of my horde units(Im looking at you crypt ghouls) bases over too plain clear ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I'd first look into how your gaming group feels about base stacking... It's a no-no where I play and I believe many feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastdarkness Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 2:12 PM, Elmir said: I'd first look into how your gaming group feels about base stacking... It's a no-no where I play and I believe many feel the same way. Dont play with dioramas. Range is determined model to model not base to base. As soon as you do that people start baseing too large for advantages. (Even then there are a number of models whos actual base puts the model one inch away from all combat or more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, lastdarkness said: Dont play with dioramas. Range is determined model to model not base to base. As soon as you do that people start baseing too large for advantages. (Even then there are a number of models whos actual base puts the model one inch away from all combat or more) Do people still play measure to the model not base? I thought that had died out as a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastdarkness Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, stato said: Do people still play measure to the model not base? I thought that had died out as a thing Pesky Official Rules pop up when and where you least want them. I stack bases my self on my own units but I do repect others not wanting 20 Crypt Ghouls pushing all their mordheim tufts down. Way more controversial is pivoting and hopping(With Flying) on the pile in around units. Horde units gotta know all the info they can to work effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, lastdarkness said: Pesky Official Rules pop up when and where you least want them. I stack bases my self on my own units but I do repect others not wanting 20 Crypt Ghouls pushing all their mordheim tufts down. Way more controversial is pivoting and hopping(With Flying) on the pile in around units. Horde units gotta know all the info they can to work effectively. I know its an offical rule, but every tournament out there rules base2base, and pretty much most clubs too. Thats why this forum has a sticky on base sizes, to list the right sizes to use. Stacking and model2model is actually a massive boon for units on bigger bases, and they will often have less models but stronger attacks so getting that extra 1 into range has way more impact than 2 or 3 more ghouls. Anyway, this is the wrong place for this discussion and there are plenty of old threads on it from when GHB came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastdarkness Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, stato said: I know its an offical rule, but every tournament out there rules base2base, and pretty much most clubs too. Thats why this forum has a sticky on base sizes, to list the right sizes to use. Stacking and model2model is actually a massive boon for units on bigger bases, and they will often have less models but stronger attacks so getting that extra 1 into range has way more impact than 2 or 3 more ghouls. Anyway, this is the wrong place for this discussion and there are plenty of old threads on it from when GHB came out. Im hoping GHB2 addresses these issues a bit more. The problem with Hordes like zombies is getting more then 4 or 5 attacking at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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