Let's Chat: Free Peoples

[Caffiends]

4 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Hello, first timer on this forum here and pretty new to AOS (and honestly only really dabbled a tiny amount of WFB at 7th and a bit of 8th). Just wondering if given the massive time and tech gap (or at least for the overlords) from old to new hammer if it is appropriate to use history models beyond late medieval/renaissance assuming playing in a non official model environment.

 

Obviously probably not anything beyond say the late 1700's, but do you think that stuff like Warlord's Pike and Shotte range would fit in? Or does that still look out of place? The only thing I can base my assumptions on is that one human picture from the Black Library novel.

From what I understand, free people's are based off of the Holy Roman Empire. 

They were inventive users of air and steam, and had an air rifle in use around the late 1700s early 1800s, so I'd guess around that period?

[kenshin620]

45 minutes ago, Caffiends said:

From what I understand, free people's are based off of the Holy Roman Empire. 

They were inventive users of air and steam, and had an air rifle in use around the late 1700s early 1800s, so I'd guess around that period?

Well I do know the origins of the original faction, The Empire, is late medieval/renaissance. So while using historical models from say the War of the Roses and the Italian Wars was essentially a perfect fit, anything time wise beyond that would look a tad odd (especially with far more advance gun technology like muskets).

 

Given the massive shift though from WFB to AoS, I was just wondering if it was aesthetically alright to use models from the time of the various conflicts in the 1600's like the Thirty Years War or the English Civil War. Some examples below.

[Aezeal]

22 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Well I do know the origins of the original faction, The Empire, is late medieval/renaissance. So while using historical models from say the War of the Roses and the Italian Wars was essentially a perfect fit, anything time wise beyond that would look a tad odd (especially with far more advance gun technology like muskets).

 

Given the massive shift though from WFB to AoS, I was just wondering if it was aesthetically alright to use models from the time of the various conflicts in the 1600's like the Thirty Years War or the English Civil War. Some examples below.

 I doubt the models will look that much out of place next  to regular empire guys if the size is correct (GW tends to make somewhat bulky models). The fact tech might be a bit more advanced that the guns free people have.. I'd not worry.. that steamtank is also not really fitting.. and you are in the same universe as the Kharadron Overlords....

[Jamopower]

I would say that the 30 years war stuff is even more spot on than the war of the roses stuff (which would be more suitable for Bretonnians). Especially as the free guild regiment rules (and the old empire rules) and army composition seem to be taken straight from the tactics of that era. You have the spearmen and the handgunners and even the bit more specialized stuff like pistoliers fit straight in.

 

The fun thing with free peoples in AoS is that you can fit anything from bronze age warriors up to the 30 years war stuff to both rules and to the fluff as there are suitably good variety for equipping your models, only non gunpowder cavalry are missing, and the fluff leaves a lot of room for the players own imagniation.

 

On the previous page the army photo from @Berdysz seems to have some historical models in it with the GW plastics.

[Chickenbits]

Got a rules question regarding the Freeguild regiment abillity, and the handgunner Stand and shoot Piper abillity.

I have a unit of Freeguild guard connected with 2 different handgunner units. The guard and handgunner 1 gets charged by 2 different units. The Stand and shoot abillity says that it triggers when the unit gets charged, while the regiment supporting fire triggers at the end of the charge phase.

Can I use the stand and shoot abillity to kill the unit charging the handgunner-unit, and then fire with them again by using the regiment supporting fire abillity? 

Also, can I use the second handgunner unit to support-kill the unit charging the first unit, and then use that unit (now free) to fire on the unit charging the freeguild guard?

 

Sorry if it's a bit confusing, just trying to wrap my head around how this works

[Caffiends]

2 hours ago, Chickenbits said:

Got a rules question regarding the Freeguild regiment abillity, and the handgunner Stand and shoot Piper abillity.

I have a unit of Freeguild guard connected with 2 different handgunner units. The guard and handgunner 1 gets charged by 2 different units. The Stand and shoot abillity says that it triggers when the unit gets charged, while the regiment supporting fire triggers at the end of the charge phase.

Can I use the stand and shoot abillity to kill the unit charging the handgunner-unit, and then fire with them again by using the regiment supporting fire abillity? 

Also, can I use the second handgunner unit to support-kill the unit charging the first unit, and then use that unit (now free) to fire on the unit charging the freeguild guard?

 

Sorry if it's a bit confusing, just trying to wrap my head around how this works

So on the piper description, it says "once per turn, if an enemy unit ends its charge move within 3" of a unit that includes any pipers, they can signal their unit the stand and shoot"

The freeguild rule uses a state check at the end of the charge phase. This means that if the overwatch kills the charging unit wholesale, and there's nothing there at the end of the charge phase, the unit that overwatched can shoot as a part of the freeguild. 

This also works if when you kill models, you opponents removes models closest to the handgunners. Even if they didn't kill the whole unit, as long as there are no enemy models within 3" of the handgunners at the end of the charge phase, they can assist another unit

Also, the freeguild rules just says that when supporting they shoot as if it is the shooting phase. Unlike the stand and shoot rule, the freeguild rule doesn't specify a target

So if a squad of libs charge your guard, you can use your freeguild supporting shots to kill the Lord celesent in the back if you want to. 

Where as with stand as shoot, you specifically have to shoot the unit charging 

Does this help?

[Chickenbits]

6 minutes ago, Caffiends said:

 

Does this help?

That does indeed help! Thank you!

 

And while I agree that the wording does suggest that I can shoot at any target while supporting another unit, I feel like I'll be thrown out of the club if I try to do it  

[Caffiends]

51 minutes ago, Chickenbits said:

That does indeed help! Thank you!

 

And while I agree that the wording does suggest that I can shoot at any target while supporting another unit, I feel like I'll be thrown out of the club if I try to do it  

I like to think of it fluff wise as it still supporting the unit without hitting the charging unit. Like the handgunners shooting the general down the throw the ranks into disarray, or the crossbowman taking out the enemy shooters to allow the guard to focus more on fighting 

Game wise, I think it's intended play. It's been played this way at major tournaments and they've had six months to FAQ it out if it wasn't how they wanted it to be played

Besides, I'll take what I can get against khorne and nurgle and tzeench and Stormcast eternals (oh my!) ?

[someone2040]

Certainly they didn't Errata the rules otherwise in the latest update, so unless an update is coming in GHB2018 that changes our allegiance abilities I'm guessing it's intended functionality (or GW don't want to bother changing it because it's not OP).

It's definitely super useful though, especially on the Crossbows that have that little bit extra range and the Long Rifles on the Handgunners. For the regular Handgunners I quite frequently shoot what the Guard are in combat with anyway just because of the short range.

[Helmut]

Speaking of Great Company rules and Pipers...what are your thoughts regarding the interaction with target unit abilities that activate during the shooting phase? Fulminators for instance receive a +1 to save in the shooting phase. 

Regiment rules instruct missile units to shoot "as if it were the shooting phase", whereas Pipers simply states a unit may "shoot its missile weapon at the charging unit". Would you agree that Fulminators would only receive their ability buff if targeted by Gunners lending support? Thought it was worth bringing up wrt target selection. 

[Caffiends]

10 minutes ago, Helmut said:

Speaking of Great Company rules and Pipers...what are your thoughts regarding the interaction with target unit abilities that activate during the shooting phase? Fulminators for instance receive a +1 to save in the shooting phase. 

Regiment rules instruct missile units to shoot "as if it were the shooting phase", whereas Pipers simply states a unit may "shoot its missile weapon at the charging unit". Would you agree that Fulminators would only receive their ability buff if targeted by Gunners lending support? Thought it was worth bringing up wrt target selection. 

That's generally the way I would agree. Its a tricky one though. My personal thought process is three fold for these things

1. Does it make sense in fluff? 

The idea that fuminators knock aside ranged attacks apply here. However if they were charging it would make sense for them to be more susceptible to being shot because they'd be focusing on the charge

2. Does it make sense in rules? 

Fuminators are ment to make being hit with ranged attacks more difficult as intended play. Therefore it makes sense for them to get the extra save

3. If the other two don't line up, then do whatevers most charitable for your opponent.

Just like steelmanning when arguing with someone, making the game slightly harder for yourself and still winning is the better feeling for both you and your opponent. Everyone wants to use their models as they feel they should be used and at the end of the day it is just a game. Just check these things before the game I guess

[stato]

16 minutes ago, Helmut said:

Speaking of Great Company rules and Pipers...what are your thoughts regarding the interaction with target unit abilities that activate during the shooting phase? Fulminators for instance receive a +1 to save in the shooting phase. 

Regiment rules instruct missile units to shoot "as if it were the shooting phase", whereas Pipers simply states a unit may "shoot its missile weapon at the charging unit". Would you agree that Fulminators would only receive their ability buff if targeted by Gunners lending support? Thought it was worth bringing up wrt target selection. 

'As if it were the shooting phase' applies only the the unit doing the shooting, not the target. If the target ability is +1 save 'when being shot' thats different to '+1 save in the shooting phase'.

[Helmut]

Thanks for the replies Caffiends and Stato!

2 hours ago, Caffiends said:

 

Just like steelmanning when arguing with someone, making the game slightly harder for yourself and still winning is the better feeling for both you and your opponent. Everyone wants to use their models as they feel they should be used and at the end of the day it is just a game. Just check these things before the game I guess

You are totally right here. Playing through a tournament with a group of friends and there has been an incredible amount of time spent analysing and re-analysing the Great Company rules. Fact is that a blob of 30 Handgunners getting a free shot 2+|2+ is understandably scary, and deleting a unit that charged without understanding the consequence is fun for no-one.

Just checked the book though and the Great Company rules actually state "shoot as if it were their shooting phase, or charge as if it were their charge phase".  It is my opinion that this only places the unit lending support within the said phase. Will have to see what the group say! 

[Aezeal]

Wasn't there a ruling about sylvaneth abilities that abilities that mention a specific phase CANNOT be used if they can perform that action in another phase?

[Helmut]

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

Wasn't there a ruling about sylvaneth abilities that abilities that mention a specific phase CANNOT be used if they can perform that action in another phase?

You're completely right. Hidden within the movement FAQ! So no Steady aim bonus for the handgunners either which seems fair

[Josh]

@MrCharisma @someone2040 you both will be pleased, I played a little 1000 pt game on the weekend against FEC running the abattoir batallion

my list was; 

Allegiance: Free Peoples

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Stately War Banner
- Trait: Indomitable 
- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 
Battlemage (100)

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)

Total: 990 / 1000 

 

I have to say they are super strong with the new allegiance abilities, basically tabled him turn 3 lol, but obviously a good match up for me, super interesting with the great company ^^

[someone2040]

Nice work. Looks like a cool little list to play at 1k points.

Yeah, definitely a good matchup for Free Peoples unless they can get access to your General somehow.

[Caffiends]

35 minutes ago, Josh said:

@MrCharisma @someone2040 you both will be pleased, I played a little 1000 pt game on the weekend against FEC running the abattoir batallion

my list was; 

Allegiance: Free Peoples

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Stately War Banner
- Trait: Indomitable 
- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 
Battlemage (100)

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)

Total: 990 / 1000 

 

I have to say they are super strong with the new allegiance abilities, basically tabled him turn 3 lol, but obviously a good match up for me, super interesting with the great company ^^

Looks like a really good list at 1000!

I've got the problem of losing my general at 1000 being really painful, I played a game yesterday where my general got spelled off the board (nurgle unlimited range d3  mortal wounds is gross af) and the army pretty much crumbled from there 

I also find duality of death to be an insanely hard scenario at 1000 as well 

I've got a 1000 point tournament coming up and I'm not super sure what to do about my general getting moral wounded off the board 

 

[Josh]

Yep Duality is hard af for free people unless you're running griffons

i use to run a helstorm & no battlemage but i think the immune to battle shock spell is pretty OP with the +1 bravery aura too

[MrCharisma]

5 hours ago, Josh said:

Yep Duality is hard af for free people unless you're running griffons

i use to run a helstorm & no battlemage but i think the immune to battle shock spell is pretty OP with the +1 bravery aura too

Tell me more about the Outriders. Why did you take them, how did you use them, were you happy with them?

[Josh]

10 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Tell me more about the Outriders. Why did you take them, how did you use them, were you happy with them?

Literally just a bait to put the enemy in a position i want with their high movement, if they are ignored just park them on an objective and shoot.

But people seem to think dudes on horses with guns is a massive threat for some reason lol & always seem to die fairly fast

[MrCharisma]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

Literally just a bait to put the enemy in a position i want with their high movement, if they are ignored just park them on an objective and shoot.

But people seem to think dudes on horses with guns is a massive threat for some reason lol & always seem to die fairly fast

Did you get to play them in Knife to the Heart? 

[Josh]

2 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Did you get to play them in Knife to the Heart? 

if it was me i would literally use them as chaff to give stuff a chance to catch up

[MrCharisma]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

if it was me i would literally use them as chaff to give stuff a chance to catch up

I see them more as a unit I'd want to hide (in Knife to the Heart) and with a late game run to the objective. Maybe from Turn 3-4 

[Josh]

derp i was thinking of duality, yeah deffs keep them safe for the win late game / opportune time