Let's Chat: Free Peoples

[MrCharisma]

Even at 60pts I don't think I'd run them. Maybe if they had the retreat rules like Skinks...

[someone2040]

Haha, I'm likely going to be running them at 100 points! Mainly because they're painted and I've been super underwhelmed with my Pistoliers lately (And busy finishing up the rest of the army to paint something else to take their place). So they kinda just fulfil a role of being able to trigger off some shooting by being in one of my Great Companies.

 

I think the Archer problem is that they don't really benefit from the Generals command ability like the Crossbows and Handgunners do. In essence you double dip almost every time you put hold the line on Xbows or Handguns as you trigger one of their inbuilt abilities also. Archers don't get that as their abilities are either always on or one-use.

The Great Companies also promote a heavy infantry shooting based style (As the shooting is far more powerful than charging).

So the Archers are really a victim of the Freeguild play style. 

 

That being said, I think at 80 points they'd likely be fair, but not actually be used because they still don't really fit in with the Freeguilds. 

At 60 points I'd definitely use them! Not as a shooting unit (Although it'd become super cheap to run them in large numbers) but as chaff! I always struggle to throw away units that are 80 points or more. Feels like I need to do something with them. But 60 points for some Archers that could potentially trigger Crossbow/Handguns shots in a Great Company? Can also block Murder Hosts? Can get onto mid-field objectives turn 1? Can chaff up the enemy from turn 1? Great looking models asking for a cause!? Sign me up!

I'd definitely try my best to fit in a couple of unit at that cost.

 

My list for Cancon by the way (Not confirmed, but unlikely to change):

Spoiler

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Freeguild General On Griffon (260)
- Shield & Greathammer
- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Stately War Banner
- Trait: Indomitable 
Battlemage (100)
- Allies
Knight-Azyros (80)
- Allies
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Archers (100)
10 x Freeguild Greatswords (150)
3 x Demigryph Knights (160)
- Lance and Sword
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)
- Allies
Helstorm Rocket Battery (180)
- Allies

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 157

 

[Josh]

what your thoughts on the list @someone2040 ? dual great company and great swords to counter charge ?

[someone2040]

I don't think the list is a 'winner'. I certainly think @MrCharismas list is far more powerful than mine, especially with the double griffon now. 

That being said, I think it's fun and got a variety of units in it that make it interesting to run.

 

In a breakdown of why for some of the units:

Archers because they're painted and been underwhelmed with Pistoliers lately. If I had the models, I'd probably run a 3rd unit of Handgunners instead. So far I've been running them in the ****** Great Company, but have been thinking maybe I should run them in the Xbow company instead to potentially trigger early Xbows.

I like the 2nd great company because it gives me a bit of flexibility to be more places on the board. Having multiple units of Handgunners (as opposed to 1) allows me a couple of Long Rifles which are ace. Never going to win the drop war anyway, so yeah, I prefer the MSU approach.

I really wish I could say the Greatswords run in and chop stuff up! But sadly, most of the time they either get relegated to objective duty or get wiped out in one or two turns by something (Or do both!).  They're definitely one of the things I'm super unsure about at the moment. I feel like I could use them better, but just never seem to have them in the right place in game. If I had more time/models I would really consider replacing them with 20x Guard instead (Either as additional units or added into the Swordsmen units).

The Hellstorm is there to blow stuff up that needs blowing up from safety. Sadly in my last practice game I had a habit of rolling low for the damage which was super disappointing (2 wounds go through against Skyfires, double 1's for damage baby!). But you know, sometimes you roll double 1's when you need to kill a few skyfires, other times you roll double 6's to kill a Durthu on 1 wound 

Battlemage to provide some magic and heal the Griffon.In general the idea is to use him as a Life mage to heal the Griffon when necessary (or whoever else needs it). Most of the time though will likely be dishing out Mystic Shield somewhere. Not sure if Cancon allows changing up the magic between games, but I won't necessarily have other Battlemage options available anyway (Would involve rebasing/painting more models). Could be some last minute painting, as I do like painting characters (And hate painting all the plebs I still need to paint).

A Luminark would probably be the better choice over the prior 2, but I decided about a month ago not to go down that path. Still not sure about my transporation options, and didn't really want to blitz through another centre piece model for the army.

 

If I had to rate my list (S, A, B, C, D) I'd give it a firm B. Will definitely be happy enough breaking even at the end of the tournament, not looking nor expecting to be near the top. If I run into a Stardrake with Mirror Shield my game plan is basically ignore it and hope it doesn't ruin my life - which it no doubt will, but there's almost no way I can beat that thing.

 

The good thing is that to get that list to minimum Cancon standard I just need to rebase 20 Swordsmen and purchase/paint an Azyros and Hellstorm which should be easy enough (Although I'm precariously low on spare 25mm rounds, already been dipping into my other AoS kits for my Xbows).

After that it's all bonus points, but I do really want to finish my army properly. Which would basically involve finishing off 20 Crossbows, 10 Swordsmen, 3 Handgunners and some pretty major touch ups on the rebased Swordsmen (including changing one of the main colours on them). Very doable... but also not exactly the fun stuff left to paint!

 

That's the Cancon plan anyway. 

[Josh]

sounds good man, keen to see post cancon wrap up

[MrCharisma]

Cool list @someone2040. I've gone down the mega Great Company route while you have more mobile units which is sweet. 

If you want to be cheeky with your 10 Archers, put them them in the Great Company with 30 Crossbowmen. If activated, you,'ll blast 60 shots at some poor ******.

You can change your Battlemage spell every game at CanCon... That's the beauty of the Battlemage. You might want to consider Wildform to increase the potency of the Greatswords 

[Schulzy]

Awesome lists guys! Question... What is the idea and or maths behind choosing the lance and sword combo on the demi's? I may be blind but I thought the halberds were a good choice. I'm currently assembling 3 at the moment, would value your suggestions.

[someone2040]

Just now, Schulzy said:

Awesome lists guys! Question... What is the idea and or maths behind choosing the lance and sword combo on the demi's? I may be blind but I thought the halberds were a good choice. I'm currently assembling 3 at the moment, would value your suggestions.

So the Halberds will always be a bit more consistent, no matter if you charge or are charged due to the improved wound roll all the time.

However, my thoughts on the Lances are that a lot of the time the Demi's are going to get the charge on something, and if you manage to roll decently the extra damage on the charge could be a large pay off.

Given I don't expect the Knights to be doing the heavy lifting most of the time anyway (The Demi's have the better stats), I guess I just take the Lances and get pleasantly surprised if they manage to smash something. Sometimes you get lucky and skewer a Wight King

[Josh]

^^ just depends what you want them to do

flankers to clean stuff up (lance) tar pit (halbs)

[BadgersinMeadows]

Can Freeguild Guard equipped with other options than sword and board use shields? I saw something on Facebook that said you could, but wanted to clarify. 

[flamingwalnut]

3 hours ago, Atreides said:

Can Freeguild Guard equipped with other options than sword and board use shields? I saw something on Facebook that said you could, but wanted to clarify. 

Yep, perfectly legal for all loadouts of Guard to have shields...just awkward to model with the non-sword versions due to how the currents models are posed.

[Ebrick]

On 10/22/2017 at 6:33 PM, Josh said:

How would you rate my current list.

1x geneal on gryphon w/armor 

1x geneal on gryphon

1x geneal on warhorse w/ indomitable

1x lumanark of hesh

 great company

40x guard w/sword and shield

20x handgunners w/long rifle

20x handgunners w/ long rifle

2nd great company

20x guard w/sword and shield

20x handgunners

10 guard 

 

[MrCharisma]

@Atreides: you can equip Guard with sword, halberd, or spear. All three are good options, it just depends on how you like to play. 

@Ebrick: your list has a lot of similarities to mine... that could be a good or bad thing. I like your 2x Great Companies

[someone2040]

@Ebrick

Hmm I'm not sure I like all the 20's as it's a bit fragile to lose the +1 to shooting against any enemies with their own.

One thing you could consider is bumping 1 unit up to 30, and having 3 units of 10 to mitigate this, this also nets you an extra long rifle. Of course, the downside of this is that your major shooting power is concentrated into a single unit, which makes it a huge target to the enemy shooting (Of course, they do also have 2 Griffons and a Luminark to worry about...).

The other potential weakness is speed outside of the characters. You really only have the 2 Griffons as your mobile units. This again, can potentially be adjusted by dropping 10 Guard from the 40 man unit, splitting one of the 20 Handgunners into 10's, and then upgrading the 10 Guard into a unit of Demigryphs with the extra points.

 

But overall though, it looks like a pretty solid core and a lot of that stuff you can just tweak if you feel something isn't working best (It's mainly just rejigging the unit structures).

 

@Atreides the only Freeguild Guard loadout that doesn't have Shields are the Militia weapons. Swords, Spears and Halberds can all use Shields, the double handed weapons just sling them on their backs or on their fore-arm. 

[Chickenbits]

So I've been thinking about doing freeguild, but I'm unsure on how to proceed.

 

My imediate plan was to simply go down the route of that massive battalion, but I feel like you get a bit spread out with random units lote pistoliers and greatswords. 

Do you think it's better to just dump large infantry-blocks on the table, like that list above?

[someone2040]

In essence, the allegiance abilities really promote having infantry blocks to make the most use out of it.

The Freeguild Regiment feels a bit awkward, because not only is it expensive, it forces you to take units like Pistoliers and Outriders which just don't feel great in the army at the moment. 

To me, if you're going Freeguild Regiment, ultimately you land with this list at a bare minimum

Spoiler

Freeguild General On Griffon (260)
Freeguild General (100)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
10 x Freeguild Greatswords (150)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
3 x Demigryph Knights (160)
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)
Freeguild Regiment (200)

Total: 1830 / 2000

The only thing above minimum in that list are 2 units of Guard which have been upped to 20's to get Great Company bonuses and that you have both a Griffon and a General (One will be outside the Regiment). 

As you can see, after you've got all that, you've got very little wriggle room for anything else left in the army.

Lastly, at 200 points you could get a lot of other stuff into your army. Sure, you get a lot of +1 to hit, but we don't have any ability that combos off that. Our units are all super small now that we're forced into units we don't want and the battalion points, so you don't really benefit from the battleshock bonuses either.

 

Overall, it just feels clunky. Because it's so expensive to get to a minimum (and includes units you don't want to take), you can't make good use out of the benefits you get from it. IMO it might be something worth considering if we were playing 3000 point games, or possibly even at 2500 point games. At that point you can start increasing the numbers in your units, and your Griffon will be happy that he has an entourage that gives him +1 to hit.

[Bethorina]

Hi all know the general consensus of where I'm heading for my nighthaunt army so looking at what next my partner has nearly finished her kharadron over Lords and playing against a hurricanum mixed order list this inspired me to do a free peoples army had wanted to get some ideas on a few lists I done for 2k comments and advice always welcome

List 1 - unsure of the general on griffon and tempted to cut down to just general on horse and change the demi gryphknights to 2 units of 6

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
Freeguild General On Griffon (260)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Trait: Inspiring 
40 x Freeguild Guard (280)
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
9 x Demigryph Knights (480)
- Lance and Sword

List 2 - utilitiesing ironwield arsenal and gun lining forward 

Allegiance: Order
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Shield & Lance
- Trait: Inspiring
Cogsmith (100)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
Organ Gun (120)
Organ Gun (120)
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)

List 3 - same as list 1 but with the changes 

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Shield & Lance
- Trait: Inspiring
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner
30 x Freeguild Guard (240)
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)
6 x Demigryph Knights (320)
- Lance and Sword
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (260)

 

[Josh]

I have nighhaunt & freepeople also ^^  my thoughts are;

list 1 - general with a banner is an auto include for the army, curious on your thoughts with the big block of demis?

list 2 - id go 3 hellstorms, drop the cog smith & boost the number of guard

list 3 - id drop the pistoliers & go a general on griffon with AMI (would attract more / do more)

 

[Bethorina]

19 minutes ago, Josh said:

I have nighhaunt & freepeople also ^^  my thoughts are;

list 1 - general with a banner is an auto include for the army, curious on your thoughts with the big block of demis?

list 2 - id go 3 hellstorms, drop the cog smith & boost the number of guard

list 3 - id drop the pistoliers & go a general on griffon with AMI (would attract more / do more)

 

With list 1 was thinking of using the demi knights as a tank unit to just run up and stall my opponent as much as possible I'll defo go banner now I know what it does 

I did consider the hell storms but I'd still go organ guns for hordes and cannons as it reroll to hit and it a 2+ to wound which I feel are slightly better then the hell storms but tbh I'll prob purchases them anyways cause they look cool I guess the difference is that shot and no need for Los etc and cogsmith  to buff any of my artillery plus its an extra hero for death and duality if needed 

I did consider the general on griffon for the third list but it all theory at this point defo leaning towards list 2 atm 

[someone2040]

Just for your info, list 2 is illegal since you're over your allies limit. You'd need to play a general Order list rather than Free Peoples in that case.

In general, most people prefer Indomitable as their command trait over Inspiring. This is mainly because we already have some inbuilt battleshock protection in that if we roll a 1 in units with banners, we automatically pass battleshock. 

While Indomitable just helps with preventing casualties in the first place.

 

In my opinion, almost in every single list you're going to want both the Horse/Foot General and the Griffon General. The former because his command ability is just super good in the infantry focused lists with shooters. Every time you use it you basically get to double dip into bonuses the Handgunners and Crossbowmen get. The latter because it's the best beatstick we have in our list and works especially well with the Armour of Meteoric Iron.

 

I think for the Demigryphs, unless you've got some particular reason for running a larger unit they're probably better off as smaller units. The banner kicks in only if you lose a single Demigryph, while a larger unit there is more potential to lose more than 1 in a turn and hence you no longer get your banner benefit.

[Bethorina]

5 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Just for your info, list 2 is illegal since you're over your allies limit. You'd need to play a general Order list rather than Free Peoples in that case.

In general, most people prefer Indomitable as their command trait over Inspiring. This is mainly because we already have some inbuilt battleshock protection in that if we roll a 1 in units with banners, we automatically pass battleshock. 

While Indomitable just helps with preventing casualties in the first place.

 

In my opinion, almost in every single list you're going to want both the Horse/Foot General and the Griffon General. The former because his command ability is just super good in the infantry focused lists with shooters. Every time you use it you basically get to double dip into bonuses the Handgunners and Crossbowmen get. The latter because it's the best beatstick we have in our list and works especially well with the Armour of Meteoric Iron.

 

I think for the Demigryphs, unless you've got some particular reason for running a larger unit they're probably better off as smaller units. The banner kicks in only if you lose a single Demigryph, while a larger unit there is more potential to lose more than 1 in a turn and hence you no longer get your banner benefit.

List 2 is mixed order so it is legal I'm using free peoples as a foundation was easier to copy and paste all then to take it out 

As for the command trait I'd rsther a 100% chance something eont run away rather then like a 1/6 chance why I chose that trait if someone got to. Your gun line and there still three after charging them there dead already,

Fair dos in the gryphknights just think a big block would look cool plus tank with that 3+ save 

[someone2040]

1 minute ago, Bethorina said:

List 2 is mixed order so it is legal I'm using free peoples as a foundation 

As for the command trait I'd rsther a 100% chance something eont run away rather then like a 1/6 chance why I chose that trait if someone got to. Your gun line and three still three after charging them there dead already,

Fair dos in the gryphknights just think a big block would look cool plus tank with that 3+ save 

Oh I see my confusion. Both Order and Free Peoples have a command trait of Inspiring.

 

Well... it's not really a 1/6 chance to not run away. You forget that Order/Free Peoples re-roll battleshock. So it's actually a 30% chance to not run. And if you're near a Freeguild General with Stately War Banner (which allows you to roll 2 dice), this goes up to a 50% chance not to run.

That's not including the fact that a 1 might not be the only viable result. You might not have any flee if you roll a 2 or 3 depending on how many casualties you take, or it might be acceptable for 1 or 2 models to flee the battle.

Of course, since you have quite large units they will likely be focus fired. This is in general, another reason I think many people prefer the Luminark in the one mega-company list since it adds extra protection to reduce casualties. Indomitable does the same thing, reduces casualties by increasing your armour saves.

 

Anyway, it's just food for thought. As I said, most people prefer Indomitable because it makes their units tougher to cause casualties against anyway.

 

FYI. Demigryphs only have a 4+ save (their shields re-roll 1's), unless you're takling about Mystic Shielding them.

[Bethorina]

1 minute ago, someone2040 said:

Oh I see my confusion. Both Order and Free Peoples have a command trait of Inspiring.

 

Well... it's not really a 1/6 chance to not run away. You forget that Order/Free Peoples re-roll battleshock. So it's actually a 30% chance to not run. And if you're near a Freeguild General with Stately War Banner (which allows you to roll 2 dice), this goes up to a 50% chance not to run.

That's not including the fact that a 1 might not be the only viable result. You might not have any flee if you roll a 2 or 3 depending on how many casualties you take, or it might be acceptable for 1 or 2 models to flee the battle.

Of course, since you have quite large units they will likely be focus fired. This is in general, another reason I think many people prefer the Luminark in the one mega-company list since it adds extra protection to reduce casualties. Indomitable does the same thing, reduces casualties by increasing your armour saves.

 

Anyway, it's just food for thought. As I said, most people prefer Indomitable because it makes their units tougher to cause casualties against anyway.

 

FYI. Demigryphs only have a 4+ save (their shields re-roll 1's), unless you're takling about Mystic Shielding them.

It is indeed the input I was after  I have only had a brief overview tbh so far so all this is great advice

And ye I was in about mystic shield

[Josh]

I feel like a fully buffed unit of swordsmen will be more of a tarpit than demis and less chance to run also for your first list :-) Not as fast obviously but 3+ re-rolling 1's is a PITA lol

[MrCharisma]

I've been doing a bit of research on the Maggotkin battletome and I wonder how this is going to change the meta.

Both Tzeentch and Nurgle are belting out mortal wounds, and Nurgle looks like it will slowly widdle our units down via the Nurgle trees.

Is this the end of the MSUs? 

Does the Luminark and Mortal Wound saves become more valuable?