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MrCharisma

Let's Chat: Free Guild

512 posts in this topic

MrCharisma    227

Something that I've been thinking about running with a pure Freeguild is with a Knight-Azyros. His 10" bubble to re-roll shooting hits of 1 could be brutal in the large units of handgunners and crossbowmen.

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someone2040    405
10 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

Something that I've been thinking about running with a pure Freeguild is with a Knight-Azyros. His 10" bubble to re-roll shooting hits of 1 could be brutal in the large units of handgunners and crossbowmen.

The Azyros has potential. What I think I'll find in my current list (Which allies in Ironweld Cannons) is that I lack heroes. Potentially something like this could be interesting:

Heroes

Freeguild General on Griffon with Armour of Meteoric Iron

2x Freeguild General (1 being the General with Indomitable)

Knight Azyros

Great Company 1

20x Freeguild Guard

30x Xbows

10x Handgunner

Great Company 2

20x Freeguild Guard

10x Greatsword

10x Handgunner

Other

3x Demigryph Knights

5x Freeguild Pistoliers/Outriders

2x3 Prosecutors with Javelins

It's 2000 on the dot, but you've still got 120 points left in allies. So you could swap out the Pistoliers for a Knight-Venator for example if you feel you lack in heroes and want some more ranged threat, or a Freeguild General for some other 100 point hero if you don't want a second general on foot/horse.

Still, the shooting will need to make it's mark. The General on Griffon is the only real 'big threat' in the list in terms of combat prowess and rend.

Might be something to look into when I expand my Stormcast past the starter sets (Have Prosecutors, but double hammer ones, and don't have the Azyros).

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Blitzel    30
21 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Heroes

Freeguild General on Griffon with Armour of Meteoric Iron

2x Freeguild General (1 being the General with Indomitable)

Knight Azyros

Great Company 1

20x Freeguild Guard

30x Xbows

10x Handgunner

Great Company 2

20x Freeguild Guard

10x Greatsword

10x Handgunner

Other

3x Demigryph Knights

5x Freeguild Pistoliers/Outriders

2x3 Prosecutors with Javelins

That is nice list where a knight azyros might really shine! You could drop the demigryph knights for some extra greatswords and and a battlemage with wildform to kick stuff in the nards!

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MrCharisma    227
39 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

2x Freeguild General (1 being the General with Indomitable)

 

 

What's the strategy with 2 Generals? 

I'd be exploring a better use of that 100pts.... a Loremaster to buff your Griffon, a wizard with Lifesurge or Wildform, or maybe something else like a unit of Prosecutors for speed?

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someone2040    405
35 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

What's the strategy with 2 Generals? 

I'd be exploring a better use of that 100pts.... a Loremaster to buff your Griffon, a wizard with Lifesurge or Wildform, or maybe something else like a unit of Prosecutors for speed?

Honestly, just instinctive reflex I guess. My current force uses all my allies on 2x Cannon and a Gryph Hound, so if I want characters for contest objectives, then I need to put in additional Generals (Either regular or on Griffon). 

In this list, there's no real reason for it unless you want a second Stately War Banner for redundancy. You could easily sub out one for a Collegiate Arcane Battle Mage or a fighty stormcast character instead depending on your preference. You can't use a Loremaster unless you're happy to give up the Free Peoples allegiance.

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MrCharisma    227
3 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

 You could easily sub out one for a Collegiate Arcane Battle Mage or a fighty stormcast character instead depending on your preference. You can't use a Loremaster unless you're happy to give up the Free Peoples allegiance.

2

Yep... I didn't even register that you were going for a pure Free People list. 

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Cerlin    87

The more I play freeguild, the more I like to have some dispel on the table. It doesnt always work but the threat of it is really nice.

My gut tells me that big blocks of guard with backup will be really effective this edition.

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Kugane    129
7 hours ago, someone2040 said:

Essentially I think you have to treat the Outriders as a faster moving unit of 10 Handgunners. They pay the extra 30 points for the mount to get them into position faster (Albeit with slightly less range). They can run and shoot, which gives them one of the largest threat ranges in the army (26"+D6) and unlike Pistoliers, this means they can make sure they're attacking the unit they want to. They can even charge if they're really keen.

 

This makes them IMO a more flexible unit, yet less effective unit than Pistoliers. I think the power of these units (like most units in our army actually) come from the Musicians. In the case of our mounted shooters, the ability to run and still shoot. Pistoliers have the problem where if they run, they need to run towards the closest visible enemy unit and as far as possible. Sometimes this is not what you're going to want them to do (You may instead, want to go after a different more fragile unit), and you're going to be unable to run with the Pistoliers as a consequence.

 

So overall. Maths shows a lot of things, but it's a very simplistic view of things. It is easy to quantify offensive power or defensive power, but it's much harder to quantify the power of threat ranges or mobility. It doesn't show that the Outriders actually have the biggest threat range in our army (Perhaps outside turn 1 Archers), but do have to put themselves potentially in harms way to make use of it (14" shooting range means opponent gets a 9" charge on you).

Personally I prefer to use Maths to figure out what kind've damage output I can expect from a unit, as opposed to trying to figure out whether units are worth their points. I prefer to rely on my own intuition and experience to judge whether I feel a unit has a place in my army and what their expected role would be.

Just to make it clear though, not having a dig at people that do want to try and figure those things out. Just my own thoughts on the matter.

I personally ranked them by offensive power so I can consider their mobility and defenses vs what they potentially do on the table. The rocket battery for example is one of the lowest scoring in terms of offense, but damn is it good. You can put it out of sight somewhere and it can keep on shooting missiles at a huge range onto the enemy, potentially sniping their heroes.

But either way, I think I made it pretty clear in the post that it only takes offensive values into consideration, nothing else :). After all, if you pick a unit of archers with the sole purpose on getting on objectives with their free move, and if they are fulfilling that role, thats points well spent.

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8 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Something that I've been thinking about running with a pure Freeguild is with a Knight-Azyros. His 10" bubble to re-roll shooting hits of 1 could be brutal in the large units of handgunners and crossbowmen.

He (The Knight-Azyros) only shines if you can give him a bodyguard as he needs to fly straight into enemy lines to hand out that buff for your gunners.. He might be dead by the time you can use his buff (or in the enemies eyes a debuff)

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MrCharisma    227
On 9/8/2017 at 10:08 PM, StealthKnightSteg said:

He (The Knight-Azyros) only shines if you can give him a bodyguard as he needs to fly straight into enemy lines to hand out that buff for your gunners.. He might be dead by the time you can use his buff (or in the enemies eyes a debuff)

Very true. I would see him hiding behind my line of Guard with Sword/Shield, and within the Luminark of Hysh bubble before stepping forth and shining his light.

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Taffster    7

Well these changes are really something hah, really liking the new Allegiance abilities etc.

Anyway I've got a few 2000pt games coming up so looking for some feedback on the lists I've put together. 

They're all a variation on my old list which includes a Celestial Hurricanum / Luminark for Mortal Wounds and buffs etc. General concept of this list is to have the great company front and centre with the general and greatswords from setup around the Hurricanum in between the handgunners protected by a front line of swordsmen, able to then move up to support the swordsmen and counter attack or cover a rear assault. the halberds are there to cover a flank and hold an objective. The Demigryphs and general on Gryphon covering the opposite flank able to move quickly to where they're needed.

 

List 1 (Hurricanum):

Spoiler

Freeguild of Nullen

Allegiance: Free Peoples

 

Freeguild General (100)

- General

- Great Weapon

- Trait: Inspiring 

Freeguild General On Griffon (260)

- Shield & Greathammer

- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 

 

20 x Freeguild Greatswords (300)

- Free Peoples Battleline

Halberds (160)

20 x Freeguild Guard

3 x Demigryph Knights (160)

- Lance and Sword

- Free Peoples Battleline

 

Great Company

Swordsmen (240)

30 x Freeguild Guard

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

 

Allies 

Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)

 

Total: 2000/2000

List 2 (Luminark #1):

Spoiler

Forces of Nullen

Allegiance: Free Peoples

 

Freeguild General (100)

- General

- Great Weapon

- Trait: Inspiring 

Freeguild General On Griffon (260)

- Shield & Greathammer

- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 

 

20 x Freeguild Greatswords (300)

- Free Peoples Battleline

Halberds (160)

20 x Freeguild Guard

 

3 x Demigryph Knights (160)

- Lance and Sword

- Free Peoples Battleline

 

Great Company #2

Swordsmen (280)

40 x Freeguild Guard

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

 

Allies

Luminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)

Battlemage (100)

 

Total: 2000/2000

List 3 (Luminark #2)

Spoiler

Forces of Nullen

Allegiance: Free Peoples

 

Freeguild General (100)

- General

- Great Weapon

- Trait: Inspiring 

Freeguild General On Griffon (260)

- Shield & Greathammer

- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 

 

20 x Freeguild Greatswords (300)

- Free Peoples Battleline

Halberds (160)

20 x Freeguild Guard

 

3 x Demigryph Knights (160)

- Lance and Sword

- Free Peoples Battleline

Great Company #2

Swordsmen (240)

30 x Freeguild Guard

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

 

Allies 

Luminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)

Battlemage (100)

1 x Gryph-Hound (40)

 

Total: 2000/2000

 

I'm probably going to go with list 1, what do you guys think? Any suggested changes?

Cheers.

Edit: Removed a great company.

Edited by Taffster

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A General can't be part of a Great Company as a unit has to have at least 10 models to be a part of one, so your Great Company #1 is invalid.

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Blitzel    30

@Taffster I like your second list. You might want to change your handgunners to 10 and 30 strong instead of 20 and 20. The 20 strong units only have to loose 1 guy to loose the +1 to hit bonus. A 10 men unit hitting on 3+ with the general is still really nice and the 30 men unit hits on 2+ langer when taking cassualties. 

It is easy to switch around as you don't have to use other models then you were planning!

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Taffster    7

@Blitzel Yeah I was looking at bolstering the numbers to around 30, I think if i reduced one unit to 10 I may drop them for some Archers to help cover a flank and add the Greatswords to the Company.

Alternatively, dropping the Halberds and reducing the Swordsmen to 30 men i could make both units of hand gunners 30 man - this may open up some holes in my defence so I'd maybe have to drop the wizard for maybe some Archers again to cover a flank.

Since I've got plenty of people to play against I'll try each setup, see how the 20/20 goes to start then 30/10 as you suggest, not used the Luminark at all in AoS so looking forward to giving it a go, Hurricanum was always my go to.. 

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Cerlin    87

I just played my second game as Free Guild in GHB2017 world. I was up against Sylvaneth this time and it was a tighter fight than against the Nighthaunt, but I pulled out a win.

20170912_191216.jpg.c5a3e4a7000c2eda0baa392972a50dc7.jpg

I had a wildwood right in the middle of my deployment zone on total conquest while also being hemmed in by buildings. 

There were two things that kept me in it. First, this guy who I have never used; 

20170903_123326.jpg.e930158be7b84a8e332e8c66867ac5ca.jpg

I did my own conversion to get a Free Guild General on Griffon. But this guy with meteoric armor is amazing. He also was near my indominable hero most the game so laughed at Durthu rend.

Besides that guy, I discovered how good Hold The Line is now. You can great company countercharge on your enemies turn with the buff active. The restriction for movement is only on your turn. 

This is nuts. 

Another box of greatswords here I come.

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ThePie    0

Is its better to go with 2 great companies with 20 swordmen,  and 2x 20 handgunners each.  Or just one great company with maxxed out squads

Edited by ThePie

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someone2040    405
On 9/16/2017 at 3:40 AM, ThePie said:

Is its better to go with 2 great companies with 20 swordmen,  and 2x 20 handgunners each.  Or just one great company with maxxed out squads

I think ultimately it depends on what else you're trying to squeeze into your list.

Handgunners and Xbows ultimately both work very well in 30's, as you won't lose your regiment size bonus from losing a single model. This is a big risk, and any wise opponent that knows Free Peoples will definitely make sure to snipe off a few models from units of 20's to make sure the bonus goes away.

Handgunners are also very efficient in 10's, as you get the leader weapon which can be useful to plink off a wound or two from afar.

Archers are a different alternative for 10's, but they tend to play a different role. They're more a chaff unit, advance a head, do a few pot shots from turn 1, but ultimately stall up the enemy or get onto objectives quickly to rack up a few points turn 1. They've got better damage output than 10 man Xbows, but lack the Banner and Piper options. 

The Archers might be more useful in a more aggressive company, perhaps with 20 Guard, 10 Archers and 20 Greatswords (Where ultimately, their intent is to chaff up so you can countercharge with your killier combat units).

 

So ultimately, I think if the option is 2 great companies or 1 with maxxed units, the 1 might be better. Or you take 1 maxxed and 1 min unit in each. e.g

20 Freeguild Guard, 30 Handguns, 10 Handguns

20 Freeguild Guard, 30 Xbows, 10 Handguns

That being said, I think it's important to figure out what your game plan is going to be in each of the 6 scenarios. 2 Great Companies sounds great, but ensuring that they remain within 6". The above 2 Great Companies for example, come in at 1120 points, so over half your army before characters, other units or allies. So you're really banking on making the most out of the Great Company shooting phase.

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ThePie    0
4 hours ago, someone2040 said:

That being said, I think it's important to figure out what your game plan is going to be in each of the 6 scenarios. 2 Great Companies sounds great, but ensuring that they remain within 6". The above 2 Great Companies for example, come in at 1120 points, so over half your army before characters, other units or allies. So you're really banking on making the most out of the Great Company shooting phase.

Good tips,  but lets say you run  1 maxxed great company, would you say its better to run 2 units of handgunners or 1 guns & 1 xbow?

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someone2040    405
13 minutes ago, ThePie said:

Good tips,  but lets say you run  1 maxxed great company, would you say its better to run 2 units of handgunners or 1 guns & 1 xbow?

Handgunners are better on the move in larger units, as they just get a flat +1 for being a large unit, while the Crossbows actually have to stand flat footed to get their best bonus (Being the double shots).

But that being said, fully buffed up Xbows output the most damage, and have a further range. The range definitely can't be downplayed, because Xbows have an effective threat range of 25" on the move, while Handgunners only have 21". That extra few inches can be the difference between getting off an initial volley and not.

 

Personally I think if you're running a completely maxxed out one, then have 1 unit of each. That way you've got a super threatening unit of Handgunners that in general is always pretty decent as long as they're in range, and you've got a super threat in buffed to the max Xbows. That and unit diversity, at least it doesn't feel like you're spamming the same thing over.

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Ebrick    0

Do you think the +1 hit and battle shock benefits from the battalion are worth trying to use it in a 2000 point list?

Edited by Ebrick
Grammer

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someone2040    405
34 minutes ago, Ebrick said:

Do you think the +1 hit and battle shock benefits from the battalion are worth trying to use it in a 2000 point list?

Personally I'm thinking no.

For a minimum Freeguild Regiment + 20 more Xbows + Freeguild General on Griffon, you're looking at 1870 points. What that gets you is 2 drops, but you have a lot of small units, no great company, no mortal wound output at all, an extremely limited pool of left over points. None of the units are particularly hard hitters apart from the Xbows when double shotting and the Freeguild General on Griffon.

I think it's worth more of a look at 2500 points, where you have the extra points to bulk out a few units, and add in a few allies to supplement the weak areas.

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Ebrick    0

I was looking at a 2000 point list freeguild alliance

Heroes 

1 freeguild general on horse back with stately banner, indomitable, and meteoric armour.

*1 battlemage 

Battle line 

Great company 1

20x sword and shield (guard)

10x hand gunners with long rifle 

10x hand gunners with long rifle

Great company 2

20x sword and shield (guard)

10x hand gunners with long rifle

*10x hand gunners with long rifle 

Great company 3

20x halberd with shield (guard) 

10 great swords 

10 out riders

3x demigryph knights

5x pistolers 

Total 1980 at 3 drops 

Great company 1 and 2 will hold points with mystic shield and/or general close for his +1save. Sword and shield guard are a great anvil unit from my past games and 20 seem to hold well with hand gunners and the 3× long rifles hitting and wounding on a 2+ is great at sniping.

Great company 3 is my aggressive unit. And one that I like but is not super reliable 

Yes, 20 halberds are weak but with a counter charge from my Great swords it is a lot of models in combat. And If i can get my out riders to not move and support they have 9D3 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 3's 

Last my pistolers back up my demigryph knights so they each get +1 hit 

Low hero count, and no mortal wound out put or protection. If I take out the BN I can use a huricanium for a +1 hit buff and mortal wound output but at 380 is it worth it anymore?

I have a 2000 point local tournament in 2  weeks so any help is appreciated 

 

 

 

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someone2040    405

So what I dislike is, you've taken a battalion yet you don't have a second hero to make use of the additional artefact. You're paying a lot of points for battalions, so I think you can't just ignore one of the bonuses.

 

Here's the adjustments I would consider:

-10 Freeguild Guard

-10 Handgunners

-5 Outriders

This means you lose the 3rd Great Company, but you can still make one defensive one (20 Guard + 2x10 Handgunners) and one aggressive one (20x Guard, 10x Greatsword, 10x Guard or Handgunner). This means you have Demigryphs, Outriders, Pistoliers and 1 unit of Guard/Handgunners outside the Great Companies. The last unit is your flex unit, you can use it to babysit one of your objectives all game and you don't end up being too fussed about it.

 

What this does, is free up 310 points plus the 20 you had spare leaving you with 330 points free to play around with.

 

My immediate thought would be to add in a Freeguild General on Griffon and then add either a Witch Hunter or Gryph Hound to fill in the remaining 70 points. The General on Griffon is excellent value IMO, and with the Armour of Meteoric Iron and near another unit in the Regiment will be both quite tough and extremely useful as a hammer. The Witch Hunter would give you another hero, while the Gryph Hound can protect against sneaky deployments, both would be useful enough I think.

The downside is that you are now at 4 drops, (Regiment + Regular General + Battlemage + Witch Hunter/Hound). Whether or not this is 'small enough' to gain advantages of being a low drop army, I'm unsure. I would guess other armies with battalions are going to be lower drop count (In the realm of 1 to 3). That being said, I think this army has a lot of flexibility, and is definitely something I might give some thought to.

 

Some other alternatives are:

Add another Freeguild General. Upgrade the battlemage to a Hurricanum. The Hurricanum is likely overkill though, as you're already getting a lot of +1 to hit through Hold the Line and the Freeguild Regiment.

Add another Freeguild General. Upgrade the battlemage to a Luminark. 90 Points left over for another hero or another unit of Freeguild Guard.

Go balls to the wall double chicken. You can drop the regular Freeguild General and Battlemage, and squeeze 2 Generals on Griffon into the list. This of course, changes the armies play style up hugely, as you don't get any benefits of the regular General anymore (Hold the Line, Stately War Banner). It'd be a very aggressive army.

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Josh    37

sorry if its already been covered, but just curious if it has been cleared up or FAQ re: piper shooting and great company assistant units? 2 rounds of shooting or one?

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