Let's Chat: Free Peoples

[Tizianolol]

37 minutes ago, ledha said:

the counter charge fire is when your ennemy is charging you. The freeguild grand company rule is at the end of the ennemy phase charge. It's not a the same time. So the ennemy declare he charge your xbow. They fire. He make the move. He make all his charge move. When his phase is over, you counter charge/counter shoot if you can

Thx so I can counter shot with another unit of great comp right? Because my xbow fired when enemy declare charge ?

[Blitzel]

My best goeds is you only get to shoot once. But it might first need a FAQ fix to clear this up. 

[someone2040]

12 hours ago, Duck1986 said:

As a complete aside from the excitement of GHB2017...

In skirmish, what do we feel the best ranged units are for Freeguild? Without any bonuses of ordered volleys etc, it's less clear cut than in a big battle I feel.

* Handgunners rend is good, but unbuffed a 5+ to hit is tough.

* Crossbowmen seem a good choice, with a 20'' range they'll reach most things on the board, and have a possibility of rend - but they don't get their double shots.

* Archers - decent range, re-roll hits of 1, and also I feel their extra move after set-up could be more useful in this situation than a full battle - can they run during their extra move?

 

On top of this, there are also more expensive outriders and pistoliers to consider - again, their roll requirements unbuffed aren't fantastic, but they do have the benefit of getting across the board quick.

I'd be delighted to hear everyone's thoughts on this! 

 

Here are my thoughts on Free Peoples skirmish. Note, not a lot of experience in game (only 2 games played with them), but just some logical thinking.

I reckon Archers are the big winner in Skirmish, and Crossbows probably the big loser. Either way, you'll want at least one of all 3 to make the most use out of the Champion bonuses. Here's my reasoning:

Archers are basically Crossbows with 2" less range most of the time, but get to re-roll 1's to hit. Crossbows only get their benefit if they roll a 6 to wound, which in Skirmish, you don't really have the weight of fire for the extra rend to kick in consistently enough to matter. So in essence, Crossbows and Archers most of the time are just 4+, 4+, No Rend, but the Archers get to re-roll 1's to hit. In addition, the bonus pre-game move allows the Archers to get onto objectives first, or possibly in Clash of Dawn, get out of a bad spot early on.

Next let's go to Handgunners. The Leader gets a huge bonus, as he can get a Hochland Long Rifle. This basically allows him to shoot with impunity, and you don't even need to move a lot of the time. The long rifle is also damage 2, so can take out most models in one hit if it gets through armour. Your General can basically always put Hold the Line on this guy to boost him so he's hitting on 2's wounding on 2's (+1 hit for not moving, +1 hit/wound for hold the line).

Lastly regular Handgunners have rend, which I think just helps to smash through the armour. If you can get into a good position, where your Handgunners are shielded by your Guardsmen, then you can afford to spend one turn getting into position, and then the next turn getting Hold the Line onto them.

So I think Xbows are the big loser, because what makes them so potent in regular games is the double shot + hold the line to make the most use out of the extra range and the penetrating shots. They don't get to make use out of double shot in Skirmish, so I feel Archers basically do their job better, while Handgunners offer rend. But as I said, make sure you get 1 of each anyway, as all the leaders essentially gain +1 to hit, so a Crossbow leader is better than a regular Archer.

 

As to Outriders and Pistoliers. Not really sure how they'll do, I've only used a Pistolier. Not really sure about him because he has to run towards the closest enemy, but a second one to get the musician will make them much better I feel. Unsure about the Outriders, 14" range is pretty short, but it might be enough against infantry models (As they'll need a 9" charge). Very prone to being double turned I think.

[Blitzel]

In skirmish I might recommend freeguild guard with militia weapons. Cheap diverse troops.

Just a quick thought. Can you die stormcast praters in a freeguild army if you bring a lord veritant? Vlees weapon seems murder on handgunners with all their potentiaal +1's to hit.

[Nasnad]

Looking for an army to start, and think I have it down tinder people, dark elves, mounted slaves to darkness(horses, chariots and monster stuff) and maybe sylvaneth(not sure because all the forest terrain) .. so how are free people? Recommendations in general?

[someone2040]

21 hours ago, Blitzel said:

In skirmish I might recommend freeguild guard with militia weapons. Cheap diverse troops.

Just a quick thought. Can you die stormcast praters in a freeguild army if you bring a lord veritant? Vlees weapon seems murder on handgunners with all their potentiaal +1's to hit.

You don't get any of the allegiance abilities for allies. So you only get the prayers/spells/abilities/etc on the warscrolls.

So the Lord Veritant can't get Bless Weapons, because it's not on his warscroll, it's part of the Stormcast Allegiance abilities (Which you only get in a Stormcast army).

[Blitzel]

2 hours ago, someone2040 said:

You don't get any of the allegiance abilities for allies. So you only get the prayers/spells/abilities/etc on the warscrolls.

So the Lord Veritant can't get Bless Weapons, because it's not on his warscroll, it's part of the Stormcast Allegiance abilities (Which you only get in a Stormcast army).

Right, thanks. It seems a little too good

[Blitzel]

Another issue, about modelling. Would this be allowed as a single freeguild general?

His equipment would be a pistol, stately warhamner and greatweapon. His name is Erminatz 'beast bane' Arckensohen. Accompanied by his pupil 'Junger' Johannes III. Son of Alter Johannes, the corner leader of this freeguild batallion. ;-)

[Duck1986]

On 02/09/2017 at 2:12 AM, someone2040 said:

Here are my thoughts on Free Peoples skirmish. Note, not a lot of experience in game (only 2 games played with them), but just some logical thinking.

I reckon Archers are the big winner in Skirmish, and Crossbows probably the big loser. Either way, you'll want at least one of all 3 to make the most use out of the Champion bonuses. Here's my reasoning:

Thanks for your thoughts!  Yes I'd agree that one of each is advantageous! I think something that's very noticeable in skirmish is misses - as you roll pet model rolling once and missing is far more painful than rolling 10 dice and missing on six of them. Hold the line therefore is very important for handgunners.

Ive taken a couple of outriders and they had a nice advantage of height for line of sight (obviously countered by the fact they can also be seen) and the fact they have 2 wounds make them an option for taking objectives quickly and possibly holding some waiting for the rest of the force to catch up.

Thanks for the thoughts - I am leaning towards archers possibly for the bulk of the force! 

[bottle]

So after playing Murderhost twice this weekend (two fantastic opponents) at BLACKOUT (including one on Scorched Earth which was won before I even picked up a dice). I think Freeguild are going to be a very strong contender competitively because they are a hard counter to it! Very interesting to see how this pans out. I need to decide now if I stick with mixed Order or go full Freeguild.  

[Duck1986]

That's great to hear @bottle!

I posted before, but cant spot it now (apologies if this shows up twice for anyone!) - I'm thinking I can probably get 1-2 more units this year to "complete" my Freeguild army. Prior to GHB2017 I was interested in mixed-order, but I now want to play our allegiance so need to keep myself focussed! Please take a look at what I have below and let me know if there are any areas of weakness that I should be building on!

Freeguild:

• General on Warhorse
• General on Griffin
• Handgunners x30
• Crossbowmen x30
• Archers x10 (I don't really use them as I find the above two more favourable, but they are there as an option!)
• Guard x40 with swords and shields
• Guard x20 with halberds and shields
• Greatswords x10
• 5x Outriders

Allies:

• 5x Stormcast Retributors
• 5x Stormcast Liberators
• 2x Ironweld Mortar
• Ironweld Gunmaster
• Battlemage

Compendium (Houseruled as allies in my gaming group if they used to be the same - as it seems odd to not be allied with Empire!)

• 4x Empire Knights - I may convert these to more outriders or pistoliers
• 2x Empire Greatcannon
• 3x Bretonian Paladin (whatever their new title is... they've lost their D6 mortal wounds ability though, so doubt I'll use them again - May convert them into something more useful!)

My initial thoughts are to bring in extra Greatswords (so they can be used in a Great Company) and possibly more outriders?

I'm slightly tempted by Demigryphs as I believe they are the only fulfilment of the Freeguild Regiment I'm missing - but I'm not sold on their attacks... I guess people use them to shoot up the battlefield and hold objectives while everyone else catches up?

 

I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts on where I should concentrate!

 

 

 

[Gecktron]

8 hours ago, Blitzel said:

Another issue, about modelling. Would this be allowed as a single freeguild general?

His equipment would be a pistol, stately warhamner and greatweapon. His name is Erminatz 'beast bane' Arckensohen. Accompanied by his pupil 'Junger' Johannes III. Son of Alter Johannes, the corner leader of this freeguild batallion. ;-)

 

Two guys on a bigger base shouldnt be a problem., as you get a disadvantage in close combat. Only a smaller base is close to "That Guy" Territory.
Another thing is the equippment. I just looked at the generals warscroll and you cant take a pistol and a great weapon. You can only take a pistol by using the Sigmarite Weapon and a shield and switching the shield for the pistol. 

Also, as a german, I would change "Erminatz Arckensohen" to "Ermin Arckensohn" and "Junger Johannes" to "Der Junge" (the younger or the Boy)  or "Johannes der junge" (Johannes the younger) and likewise "Alter Johannes" to "Johannes der Ältere" (Johannes the elder). Sounds more natural, if you were going for the pseudo-mediveal-german flair of the world-that-was.
 

[someone2040]

8 hours ago, Duck1986 said:

Thanks for the thoughts - I am leaning towards archers possibly for the bulk of the force! 

The other minor thing to remember about Archers is they have as lightly better combat profile also. Which isn't exactly where you want them, but every little bit counts when you've potentially got multiple combats going on around the board.

[Donal]

11 hours ago, bottle said:

So after playing Murderhost twice this weekend (two fantastic opponents) at BLACKOUT (including one on Scorched Earth which was won before I even picked up a dice). I think Freeguild are going to be a very strong contender competitively because they are a hard counter to it! Very interesting to see how this pans out. I need to decide now if I stick with mixed Order or go full Freeguild.  

I'm thinking of taking 2 units of 10 archers to negate that happening (or at least do my best to prevent it).

that said I think they need to change that scenario 

[bottle]

14 minutes ago, Donal said:

I'm thinking of taking 2 units of 10 archers to negate that happening (or at least do my best to prevent it).

that said I think they need to change that scenario 

Good idea, just to stand in the way with their pre game move? I should have done that with my game! D'oh!

[someone2040]

50 minutes ago, Donal said:

I'm thinking of taking 2 units of 10 archers to negate that happening (or at least do my best to prevent it).

that said I think they need to change that scenario 

I guess the Murderhost runs forward 2-3 units of 30 Bloodletters and swarms your objectives and immediately razes them? I had a similar thing happen to me in my game where a Stonehorn stole my objective first turn and razed it.

I can see how this can cause problems, because if the enemy gets the first turn, you don't have an opportunity to move out and protect your objectives (Other than just having more models within 3". 

Archers are a good soft counter, good pick up on that. Pre-game move allowing them to move up and block the enemy charge straight away so you get your turn (and potentially a double turn) to retaliate. I think it really shows the important of chaff in the game. But true, a scenario change is probably needed, as not every army will have such units in their toolbox to deal with first turn objective razing.

Perhaps an elegant solution would be to prevent razing of objectives in turn 1. Or perhaps scoring of objectives isn't done in turn 1. Anyway, I guess if it becomes a prevalent issue, GW will write an Errata to address it.

[Tizianolol]

Guys have you. Seen mc1ganer YouTube video about freepeople? It says that  denigryph Knights mount can t be buffed anymore with spells! I know about heroes artifact and command trait but i thought you can buff normal mounted models!!

[someone2040]

42 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys have you. Seen mc1ganer YouTube video about freepeople? It says that  denigryph Knights mount can t be buffed anymore with spells! I know about heroes artifact and command trait but i thought you can buff normal mounted models!!

I haven't listened to this episode yet, but I have noticed historically that a fair few podcasters and stuff seem to get stuff wrong. Of course, we all do! But unfortunately these people are in a position where a lot of people listen to what they're saying.

As far as I'm aware, the only things mounts aren't effected by are rules that specifically state the mount is unaffected. So that is command traits, magical artefacts, and anywhere else where they explicitly call out mounts as being unaffected.

[Blitzel]

11 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Two guys on a bigger base shouldnt be a problem., as you get a disadvantage in close combat. Only a smaller base is close to "That Guy" Territory.
Another thing is the equippment. I just looked at the generals warscroll and you cant take a pistol and a great weapon. You can only take a pistol by using the Sigmarite Weapon and a shield and switching the shield for the pistol. 

Also, as a german, I would change "Erminatz Arckensohen" to "Ermin Arckensohn" and "Junger Johannes" to "Der Junge" (the younger or the Boy)  or "Johannes der junge" (Johannes the younger) and likewise "Alter Johannes" to "Johannes der Ältere" (Johannes the elder). Sounds more natural, if you were going for the pseudo-mediveal-german flair of the world-that-was.
 

Great information, thanks! I will defenitly take your German into my army background. It is a bit hard to find the right names and nicknames if you are not native to the language.

I think my general will have a really big sigmarite weapon then. I like the pistol and the general is not there die hoe combat prowess. I am taking a Griffon for that. Thank you very much again for your help! 

[Paul Conti]

9 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I haven't listened to this episode yet, but I have noticed historically that a fair few podcasters and stuff seem to get stuff wrong. Of course, we all do! But unfortunately these people are in a position where a lot of people listen to what they're saying.

As far as I'm aware, the only things mounts aren't effected by are rules that specifically state the mount is unaffected. So that is command traits, magical artefacts, and anywhere else where they explicitly call out mounts as being unaffected.

For some reason I thought that this was impacting ALL units, not just heroes. I feel like the intent here is that is should effect everything, but until we get a FAQ it looks like Demigryphs still get their buffs RAW!

GHB2017 p 117 "... any command abilities or magical artefacts can only be used to affect attacks made by the hero and have no effect on attacks made by their mount unless specifically stated otherwise"
 

[Nasnad]

Is it possible to run a freeguild army with a relative low model count? .. with focus on mounted units and greatswords?

Maybe a single grand company, with support of outriders/pistoliers and some demi-knights?

[Aezeal]

22 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Two guys on a bigger base shouldnt be a problem., as you get a disadvantage in close combat. Only a smaller base is close to "That Guy" Territory.
Another thing is the equippment. I just looked at the generals warscroll and you cant take a pistol and a great weapon. You can only take a pistol by using the Sigmarite Weapon and a shield and switching the shield for the pistol. 

Also, as a german, I would change "Erminatz Arckensohen" to "Ermin Arckensohn" and "Junger Johannes" to "Der Junge" (the younger or the Boy)  or "Johannes der junge" (Johannes the younger) and likewise "Alter Johannes" to "Johannes der Ältere" (Johannes the elder). Sounds more natural, if you were going for the pseudo-mediveal-german flair of the world-that-was.
 

Personally I'd go for dutch... Because AWESOME.

[Duck1986]

Okay guys, so I’ve been mulling over my 2000 point army list, and definitely want to play the Free People’s Allegiance. Here’s what I’ve come up with!

 

• General on Warhorse (with stately war banner)– General, Inspiring – 100pts
• General on Griffin – Armour of Meteoric Iron – 260 points
• Battlemage -  Lifesurge – 100 pts (Ally)

 

Great Company 1:

• 40x Freeguild Guard – swords, shields - 280
• 30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen – 300
• 20x Freeguild Handgunners – 200

 

Great Company 2:

• 20x Freeguild Guard – halberds, shields – 160
• 20x Freeguild Greatswords – 300
• 10x Freeguild Handgunners – 100
•  

5x Freeguild Outriders – 130

Total: 1930/2000

 

My thinking is to use the outriders and General on Griffin to move forward and capture objectives early, while the rest of the army catches up. Once this happens, they either hold on to an objective or support elsewhere if required. Wizard supports the Griffin and the artefact means the Griffin is saving on a 2+

The first Great Company hold one objective, while the second hold another. I would position the first company to face-off where the enemy seems strongest, as the 40x Guard can hopefully hold on long enough to allow the crossbowmen and handgunners to do their work. The second company takes an objective where there is less opposition, but have the Greatswords to wade in if required.

Freeguild General casts “Hold the Line” as required, almost certainly on the Crossbowmen.

One possible change is to drop 10 handgunners and 10 guard (Swords and shields) to free up 140 points and instead play a Hellblaster Volleygun + Gunmaster to add some artillery support. New total 1990.

What do we think?

 

 

[MrCharisma]

On 04/09/2017 at 3:13 AM, bottle said:

. I need to decide now if I stick with mixed Order or go full Freeguild.  

Mate... I saw the blackout results last night, well done champ! 3rd is a great result. 

Was it GHB1 or 2? 

Care to share your list with us all (so I don't have to wait for Chris to post all of them)?

[someone2040]

1 hour ago, MrCharisma said:

Mate... I saw the blackout results last night, well done champ! 3rd is a great result. 

Was it GHB1 or 2? 

Care to share your list with us all (so I don't have to wait for Chris to post all of them)?

Bottle didn't finish in 3rd. He got 3rd best army, which I presume is a painting award. He finished in 50th overall.

The event was GHB2017.