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MrCharisma

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37 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:

Dogs of War were a mixed bag which could be made up of anything really. They had humans, elves, dwarfs, undead, halflings, lizardmen, ogres and even orcs and goblins.  They haven't been a real army for over a decade though.

but how did they work when you were playing with points and had to stay within a grand alliance? O.o

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1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:

If you're going down that route, use Grimm Burlockson instead of a basic cogsmith, he costs the same points, is better in every way and heals D3 wounds on a friendly warmachine a turn instead of a single one. Might want to think about using an Excelsior Warpriest or Jade Battlemage who can heal D3 wounds a turn from a distance instead though.

Just re-read the Jade spell, it is quite good! I've got 2 mages in my current list so can easily make one more defensive and the other be my offensive wizard.
 

Cheers for the tip buddy!

 

I'd be more inclined to use Grimm if Quarrellers or Thunderers were still battleline/core - that combo is great, but gets too expensive considering they take up valuable non-battleline points.

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50 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

but how did they work when you were playing with points and had to stay within a grand alliance? O.o

In the old days you didn't have alliances as such.  Basically Dogs of War could be played as a mercenary army made up of all the random mercenary units from different races or you could play one of the other armies like Dark Elves and then include some selected Dogs of War units within your army.  Back then only certain mercenary units could work for other armies.  It was all based on their relationships. For example Long Drong's Slayer Pirates could work for Dwarfs and Empire (and others) but couldn't work for Skaven or Orcs and Goblins.

It's a bit like how some of the Sylvaneth Wargrove battalions allow you to include friendly ORDER units but still count as Sylvaneth allegiance when building the army.

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My current empire list is usually mixed with Stormcast but I've started mixing in a unit of Sisters of The Thorn to great effect. 

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
Battlemage (100)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (320)
Knight Heraldor (120)

Units
Sisters of the Thorn x 5 (220)
Demigryph Knights x 3 (200)
- Lance and Sword
Freeguild Guard x 20 (160)
Freeguild Guard x 10 (80)
Freeguild Guard x 10 (80)
Paladin Decimators x 5 (200)
Gryph-Hound x 3 (120)

Behemoths

War Machines
Steam Tank (300)

Batallions

Total: 2000/2000

The gryph hounds are great for objective grabbing and funnelling units. They can be used to block an area to make it hard for an enemy unit to move around them and successfully charge a unit that's behind them. The gryph will get charged instead but who cares if it buys you a turn. 

The Hurricanum is fantastic in terms of buffing spells and to hit rolls and the mortal wound output. 

The generals +1 to hit and wound usually goes on the halberds once they're on an objective or in a screening position. 

The loose battlemage either casts +1 to wound on a unit, -1 to hit on an enemy unit if facing retributor style 6+ to hit generates a mess of damage. But before any of that happens his job is the Mystic the steamtank up to a 2+

The Stank then gains Shield of Thorns from the Sisters, gaining a re rollable 2+ save which bounces mortal wounds back on 5's and 6's (thanks to mystic shield). 

This makes it perfect at going toe to toe with absolutely anything. This combo killed Gordrakk in two turns whilst only losing 6 wounds. Most of the damage was reflected mortal wounds. 

The Heraldor and Decimators are designed to hunt heros, by softening a hero and the unit surrounding it with the Heraldors shooting attack, followed by a running charge from the decimators. 

The Demi's are fantastic at ploughing into infantry and holding or hazing units off of objectives. If you run them in units of 3 and remove the banner last then they all but ignore battleshock tests. 

Sisters are also very good at siezing objectives at the last minute with their long movement but in the early to mid game the should be screened so they can keep Shield of Thorns up on key units and to toss the odd javelin in support of the wall of Free Guild Halberdiers that surround them. 


Honestly Empire are a fantastic army to play but they need some support in terms of mobility and mortal wound output. 

I also have interchangeable filth in the form of the Celestant Prime and two canons, all of which slot in and out of the army. After use the steam tank though I've somewhat soured on canons! 

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Shield of Thorns (especially when combined with mystic shield and cover) is an amazing spell, but I've never been able to bring myself to field *spit* aelves, even if they are riding Babycham Deer.

If you're into racemixing you could always try casting the Eltrich Council Loremaster of not!Hoeth's Hand of Glory on a griffon or stank to make it even more killy.

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10 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

@Primaz how did you find the General on Griffon went? I'm thinking of running with one this weekend 

@MrCharisma

General on a Griffion is a monster. I wasn't sure about taking him but the guy because 300 points for a pure fighter feels like a lot, but the guy is a straight baller. I would give him plus one attack (on his hammer) and plus one damage so 4 attacks 3's (2's if near a Hurricanum) and 3's rend 2 D3+1 damage, and don't forget the Griffion who is also a heavy hitter .

 

The way i would use him is to clear out units sitting on objectives as he was my fasting moving unit in the army.  Or i would park him behind chaff and let the elite units get stuck into my swordsmen and then charge my next turn.  I did take quicksilver potion against BeastClaw which worked very well as i used him as bait.  

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I have found the best support unit to keep your Steamtank alive is a lore of life wizard. Heals D3 wounds and gives it a 6+ Ward save :-) it's also crucial to keep it near the Hurricanum otherwise I always seem to miss with the cannon!

I've found the Hurricanum to be a real star player too, and a neat trick is to give it a Pheonix Stone (the wizard riding it gives it the HERO keyword).

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I find the SteamTank over costed at 300. It's save is nice and you get some re-rolls, mortal wounds on the charge. It does have upside but it's still a lot of points. It gets taken off rather easily. People fear it it big time, and make a point of killing it asap.

 

 I would recommend having a life wizard follow around any of your high point units that you want to keep around.  

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Sounds like a wizard is a much better investment than a cogsmith, thanks for the advice. 

The Steam Tank seems to hold my flanks exceptionally well and either draws people towards it, or makes people avoid it. If you compare 300pts vs. 320 in a Hurricanum... it doesn't come close to being as valuable.

I learnt about the Pheonix Stone combo with the Hurricanum and can testify how great it is. I seem to play conservative with my Hurricanum, and park it so it just keeps within 10" of my core units. Does anyone bring it close to the battle line? If so, how is it working for you?

@Primez I'll definitely need to give the Hero on Griffon a try. I'm still in an 8th edition mindset where I like to keep my hero's close to the battleline and within ranks (yes I know these don't exist anymore!). 

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1 hour ago, MrCharisma said:

The Steam Tank seems to hold my flanks exceptionally well and either draws people towards it, or makes people avoid it. If you compare 300pts vs. 320 in a Hurricanum... it doesn't come close to being as valuable.

I learnt about the Pheonix Stone combo with the Hurricanum and can testify how great it is. I seem to play conservative with my Hurricanum, and park it so it just keeps within 10" of my core units. Does anyone bring it close to the battle line? If so, how is it working for you?

 

The Hurricanum is well worth the 20 more points over the steamtank.

 

Yes i often have my Hurricanum near the battleline, behind chaff. The buff is 10" (un wounded) to the unit not the model so keep that in mind. The 18" range is also not the best so you need to make sure you can get within range to shot stuff as that is what you are paying the points for. Not to mention the range of the wizard is also 18".

 

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Well my 1k game was fun. Ended up playing the mission with the meteorites. I lucked out when one landed near my canon so I got 2 easy VP.

My friend sneakily took the upper hand with a Gryph Hound though.

Generally though thoughts:

Guard with Halberds: Did some really good work against a Celestant on Dracoth and a unit of Liberators that had been whittled down. Some great rolls on Battleshock kept them battling to the end and they took out the Celestant.

Steam Tank: Some pants rolls on my part early on nerfed its effectiveness. But eventually I brought it in to combat and it did good things.

Canon: Did great things but eventually died to a unit of Palladin Protectors, though the crew tied them up long enough to be shot to hell by Handgunners and Gunmaster.

Handgunners: Obscenely good with the buffs and the stand and shoot, love them a great deal. They take the title of man of the match pretty firmly.

General: Did what he needed to.

Gunmaster: Served well fr bonuses and did some amazing pistol damage on the palladins.

So I lost by one victory point when we had to call due to time remaining in the evening. However I really enjoyed it and it has given me ideas to improve the army.

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@Nico I haven't used them enough to really comment. It could be more to do with the army you play them with. With the Steam Tank they easily doubled its combat output but buffing a different unit could be less effective due to other factors. I'd like them to be 40 points cheaper in most of my lists. 

@bottle The life wizard is my third pick behind beasts wizard and shadow wizard (mainly because my army is Realm of Shadow themed) but I've used it a few times and its both fantastic and soul destroying for your enemy. 

@Primez I thought so too but in straight damage it tends to earn it's points back. Also if you're having a bad game with shooting it can also earn its keep by locking up enemy units. One thing that I've been playing though and I'm not sure if it's correct or not, is that "More more pressure" allows you to re-roll the D6 canon damage roll. 

@Double Misfire I'm combo-ing a lot of things from a fluff point of view as I'm building an Order army within the Realm of Shadow and taking inspiration from the game Bloodborne. With that game you had various different cults and storylines playing out. The Healing Church (Stormcast and Elves), The Vilebloods (Dark Elves), The Hunters (Wanderers, Devoted of Sigmar), The curse of the beast (Humans and Sylvaneth), The choir and the celestial realm (Sigmar and Seraphon). I plan on building 3000 points of each faction and I have Empire and Stormcast done so far, with Sylvaneth about 50% finished. Having a bunch of Bloodwrack Medusae marching alongside a unit of Halberdiers seems odd until you combo that with a Hurricanum who's planetarium has been replaced with a black hole/vortex with tentacles bursting out of it. That and the practical matter of similarities between paint schemes and basing techniques to tie things together further.

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16 hours ago, RossMHoward said:


@Primez I thought so too but in straight damage it tends to earn it's points back. Also if you're having a bad game with shooting it can also earn its keep by locking up enemy units. One thing that I've been playing though and I'm not sure if it's correct or not, is that "More more pressure" allows you to re-roll the D6 canon damage roll. 

 

@RossMHoward I would say you have been using it correctly as it is a random value. I would say it's best in combat or at least in close range. If you are just sitting back with it then you are wasting a lot of it's use and points. 

 

I don't hate the steam tank and my comments are based on my own experience. Every time i have played one my opponents have just gone "****** a steam tank need to blow that up" and if you don't use More Pressure! because of the number of wounds it has taken it does even less. 

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I would love to try the Sisters of thorn in my Freeguild list. I think they combo well with Freeguild guards with shields, as they get +1 save from their "parry"-ability, which then bounces wounds on 4+ combined with mystic shield, and 3+ in terrain. Seems like a good tarpit.

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My current list is this:

1x King Louen Leoncouer

1x Freeguild General

1x Gunmaster

1x Celestial Hurricanum

16x Knights of the Realm

20x Handgunners

10x Archers

2x Cannons

I've only tried it once, and it was a loss, but I will run with it again soon and hopefully do better.

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I have a 2,500 point game tonight against an ogor player. I have a standard 2,000 point list which I want to try build on and test out a few more times but, I’m not sure what i want to take with the extra 500 points. I could fill it out with handgunners and a General for hold the line or i can look to add some fast moving units such as outriders.  I have a love/hate with artillery as I often fluff my rolls L.

 

Any suggestions? 

 

2,000 point list.

Freeguild General on Griffon

Battlemage x 2

Luminark

Hurricanum x 2

Freeguild Crossbowmen 20

Freeguild Guard 30 (Shield and swords) 

Freeguild Guard 10 (Shield and swords)

Freeguild Guard 10 (Shield and swords)

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On 2016-09-04 at 7:56 PM, jobume said:

My current list is this:

1x King Louen Leoncouer

1x Freeguild General

1x Gunmaster

1x Celestial Hurricanum

16x Knights of the Realm

20x Handgunners

10x Archers

2x Cannons

I've only tried it once, and it was a loss, but I will run with it again soon and hopefully do better.

Well... I tried the above list again today. It was the Gift from the Heavens scenario against Moonclan, and it did not go well. I lost the game 11-17 and lost most of my units. I get the feeling that the list is missing a big anvil unit that can hold something in place and contest or score objectives. I will try it a couple of more times before I give a final verdict.

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6 hours ago, jobume said:

Well... I tried the above list again today. It was the Gift from the Heavens scenario against Moonclan, and it did not go well. I lost the game 11-17 and lost most of my units. I get the feeling that the list is missing a big anvil unit that can hold something in place and contest or score objectives. I will try it a couple of more times before I give a final verdict.

 

A big block of state troops with swords and shields work well.  The down side is you need to give them Inspiring Presence if you really want them to tank damage. Or just keep Louen you your list. 

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@jobume How are you finding the archers? Most list/discussion I've seen has been all about handgunners. What are you finding with them, usage wise?

For what it's worth, I play Sisters quite frequently in a wood elf list. They are pretty cool, because they have decent uses in each phase. Shooting? check. Magic/hero? Check. Good movement? check!

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I'm thinking of making a 1000p list like this:

General  100

Steam tank 300 - I dont know if it is any good

Handgunners  100
Guards 80 - only 10 men.... 

Ice phoenix 260 - Making the Guards tougher and is fast

 Loremaster 100 - Making the Steam tank or Ice phoenix better

Witchhunter 60 - I did not know that else to buy??

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

@Primez I'd suggest a big block of great swords with the spare points. Your buffs will create a strong attacking unit that will hold the battle line

 

@pastorpaint and @jobume I've found crossbowmen a far stronger unit than archers and handgunners.  

@MrCharisma I definitely agree on the Crossbowmen. I have 30 of them waiting to be painted. The range and the ability to double fire can be really scary.

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