Strategies versus death players!

[Dolomedes]

If you play Death, get out, this isn't for your eyes. We're just discussing how best to paint pustules, blood, ****** and beaks.

 

Now they've buggered off, how are you chaps dealing with death armies?

 

As chaos, we have a solid punch. But I'm finding my punch just isn't strong enough. It was great when it came to messing up order armies, the odd Seraphon player or Stormcast player might put up a bit of fierce competition, but it's death I'm struggling with.

 

They just don't die!

 

The ignoring rend, regenerating models, tomb king skeletons pumping out way more pain than our standard battleline troops, the warsphinxes undercosted with that bullshit half wounds rule, I just don't have the power to get them down. The layman's response would be 'go for the characters' but even without the characters, they are pretty solid armies.

 

Anyone who has success against death armies, spill the beans, my gorgeous goats just can't take much more kicking from those anaemic trollops.

[Bronouns]

I'm having the same issue.

Currently, I'm gearing up with units that do mortal wounds from range to take out their heroes turn 1.  I feel that once the heroes that grant the "feel no pain" fall, the rest of the cards crumble.

Currently getting the foulrain formation, a hellcannon, and stormfiends up and going to try against Death.

Death has little range to answer this as well.

[Dolomedes]

8 hours ago, Bronouns said:

I'm having the same issue.

Currently, I'm gearing up with units that do mortal wounds from range to take out their heroes turn 1.  I feel that once the heroes that grant the "feel no pain" fall, the rest of the cards crumble.

Currently getting the foulrain formation, a hellcannon, and stormfiends up and going to try against Death.

Death has little range to answer this as well.

Them rats are probably the most effective way to do it shooting wise, good thinking. I've been thinking skullcannons and minotaurs, access to that -2 rend great weapon should nicely hack through the buffs, and the cannon's 30 inch range makes for a formidable turn one threat. You can use them as chariots too!

Another good mortal wound dealer is the chaos sorcerer lord on manticore, I'm thinking of adding one to my army soon.

I've not tried these units yet because they arn't painted, but if it works well I'll post it in here.

[Arkiham]

I threw 1000 points (20 knights, manticore lord, lord on daemonic mount) into a 540 point unit of black knights under the death rattle batralion with the 5+ ward on from the alliegence.  It may have been bad rolls or good for my opponent but I only just..just won that.only because I got the double turn.

The range of the lances on the black knights is nuts. They can easily get all 15 into combat against a 5 wide unit of knights, only being able to get 5 into combat.. 

[Der_lachende_Gott]

I played my first game against death, 2000 points tomb kings, last week and I managed to permanently kill like 6 models and my whole army was wiped out. It was a massacre. All the saves... and the stupid getting touble hits on 5s and 6s is just stupid. 20 Archers with righteous smiting killed my knights first turn.

Today  I went for an "kill the casters and heroes" approach and it went pretty well. Still had to endure a withering fire but 18 Chaos Warriors, buffed up with Fatesworn Warband rend, Sorcerer Lord and Warshrine hacked through everything and 9 Knights buffed to the brim killed the Tombking and his bodyguard.

I think you have to apply so much overwhelming Force at a single target, that it won't get the stupid D6 reanimation and such. Just make sure you kill everything you touch and get rid of the casters first. Without all the buffs they crumbled pretty fast.

[Nico]

It's not surprising that you're struggling. TK is the best Death army and Slaves (and especially Tzeentch Slaves) are the worst Chaos faction bar Beastmen.

[Der_lachende_Gott]

Yeah first time fighting them was like hitting a brick wall
Just as much fun as my last dentist apointment. Good think we have a friendly attitude here but I have no intend to ever meet them in a tournament setting.

 

[Dolomedes]

 

2 hours ago, Nico said:

It's not surprising that you're struggling. TK is the best Death army and Slaves (and especially Tzeentch Slaves) are the worst Chaos faction bar Beastmen.

I can confirm Beastmen are udderly useless against Death. Painting up a daemon prince right now just as a hero hunting support unit for them. Them dam sphinxes, 280 points for one is insane. 

[Nico]

Quote

Them dam sphinxes, 280 points for one is insane.

The Khemrian Warsphinxes are nothing special. The Necrosphinx is 400.

[Dolomedes]

 

2 hours ago, Nico said:

The Khemrian Warsphinxes are nothing special. The Necrosphinx is 400.

It's the half wounds that does me in. I just can't pump out enough damage before half of my army is gone, and when they kill models there is some ability somewhere that heals it's wounds back. Cannons I guess is the way to deal with them.

[Mirbeau]

Little threat at range, the majority of our battleline units very quickly get much worse if you can whittle them down, a lack of mobility, big reliance on our hero's buffing and a pretty average damage output. Those are our main weaknesses. I don't have any Tomb Kings now sadly, so this may not apply to their units.

 

 

[Nico]

Quote

It's the half wounds that does me in. I just can't pump out enough damage before half of my army is gone, and when they kill models there is some ability somewhere that heals it's wounds back. Cannons I guess is the way to deal with them.

Ignore it and kill the scoring units or the buffing heroes. It can be healed by wizards.

The key to beating TK is to kill the buffing heroes - Liche Priest, Necrotect and Tomb Kings on foot. Settra's a hard case as he's very hard to kill.

[Agent of Chaos]

Hey All, 

I have my first ever game against Undead this Sunday so have found and revived this topic.

Last post was August 2016 and they've had a new battletome since then so looking for hints and tips on what I'll face and how to beat it.

At the moment all I can say is the game will be 2000 points, he doesn't have Nagash (thank Khorne) and I have a large range of Khorne & Slaves to Darkness to choose from.

• Undead appear similar to Khorne in that they are largely a horde army that relies on character buffs so I presume the "GET THE CHARACTERS" strategy still applies? 
• I only have the one skull cannon but this might (finally) be its time to shine.
• I also feel like Wrathmongers could be useful for any sphinxs/zombie dragons etc.
• Would a second line of marauder horsemen with javelins have any impact for sniping?
• Do I need to go heavy on the anti-magic? Do they have spells that eliminate horde units or is their magic focused on healing & summoning? 
• Is mobility still an issue for them or do they have ways of mitigating that?

I'm going in absolutely blind and expect a beating however would be good to make a good showing of myself (and yes, there will be a battle report).

Any advice welcome :-)

Blood for the Blood God!!!

[Mayple]

I have two chunks of advice for you. Both of them are completely unbiased, and will help you out for sure

- 1. Do kill the characters - the recent changes to death made all their regeneration come from heroes and grave-tokens. Kill the smaller support characters (Anything with 6 wounds or less) first, and work your way up from there. Death now has access to powerful magic, so be prepared to deal with that as well. Don't take any fights where you can't BREAK the enemy unit. No whittling, no battle for attrition, just BREAK THEM! Hit them hard, hit them fast. Surgical. They have inferior mobility with their massed infantry, use superior movement to outmaneuver and decide what fights what. Roadblocks are their worst nightmare.

- 2. Drown them in rats. Anything that can not be solved by that is not worth solving.

[Agent of Chaos]

Hahaha! Many thanks for the advice :-)

Don't have any rats but can certainly look at magic defence, a tar pit unit and mobility.

[Richelieu]

3 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Hey All, 

I have my first ever game against Undead this Sunday so have found and revived this topic.

Last post was August 2016 and they've had a new battletome since then so looking for hints and tips on what I'll face and how to beat it.

At the moment all I can say is the game will be 2000 points, he doesn't have Nagash (thank Khorne) and I have a large range of Khorne & Slaves to Darkness to choose from.

• Undead appear similar to Khorne in that they are largely a horde army that relies on character buffs so I presume the "GET THE CHARACTERS" strategy still applies? 
• I only have the one skull cannon but this might (finally) be its time to shine.
• I also feel like Wrathmongers could be useful for any sphinxs/zombie dragons etc.
• Would a second line of marauder horsemen with javelins have any impact for sniping?
• Do I need to go heavy on the anti-magic? Do they have spells that eliminate horde units or is their magic focused on healing & summoning? 
• Is mobility still an issue for them or do they have ways of mitigating that?

I'm going in absolutely blind and expect a beating however would be good to make a good showing of myself (and yes, there will be a battle report).

Any advice welcome :-)

Blood for the Blood God!!!

What kind of list are you thinking about taking?  A low drop murder host would do well, flooding the board with models to prevent any gravesites deepstriking and having the melee punch to wipe out entire skeleton units so they can't regenerate.  Take the auto dispel artifact and then blood tithe dispel a critical spell each turn and I think you'll be fine.  I haven't been able to test to find out, but I have a hunch that Khorne will have a fairly favorable matchup against LoN.

[Agent of Chaos]

I only own 30 bloodletters so hard to max out a murderhost. Apart from that I have 15 flesh hounds & 3 x Bloodcrushers (meh). Based on the advice so far I have come up with 2 list options;

List 1 is slaves to darkness allegiance, focusing on a big anvil unit of chaos warriors, buffed with mystic shield and sling shotted forward by Sayl. Apparently Undead don't like roadblocks so that should keep them busy while my knights and marauder horsemen harrass and pick fights they can win. Two daemon princes for flying over the front lines and taking on his weaker heroes, skull cannon for sniping heroes and flesh hounds for speed/unbinding.  The two sorcerers will buff and unbind as required.

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness
Leaders
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140) - General - Trait: Hatred Incarnate - Artefact: Hellfire Sword - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Daemon Prince (160) - Sword - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Daemon Prince (160)- Axe - Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Sayl The Faithless (120)

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160) - Runestaff
Bloodsecrator (120) - Allies

Battleline
30 x Chaos Warriors (480) - Halberd & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160) - Chaos Glaives - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (180) - Javelin & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)- Flails & Shields - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
1 x Skull Cannons (160) - Allies
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)- Allies

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 161

 

List 2 is a normal old Khorne list with Gore Pilgrims for interrupting his magic. Typical Bloodletter bomb to hopefully delete a large horde unit early and open up his centre which the Bloodthirster will fly through and wreck face. Blood warriors with bronzed flesh as an anvil (of sorts). Wrathmongers to deal with any large undead monsters (not even sure if there will be any however they should still find something to do), flesh hounds and skull cannon as per list 1. Slaughterpriests will bloodboil his minor characters if they can get close enough.

Allegiance: Khorne
Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General - Trait: Immense Power - Artefact: Deathdealer 

Bloodsecrator (120)- Artefact: The Brazen Rune
Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Bloodstoker (80)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200) - Goreaxe & Gorefist - 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)- Reaver Blades
30 x Bloodletters (270)

Units
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

5 x Wrathmongers (180)
1 x Skull Cannons (160)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

[Mayple]

@Agent of Chaos

I'd like to add to the 'hit them hard' advice. Hit them hard, or don't hit them at all (i.e: don't charge with your chaos warriors, let him charge you, and do a continual backwards retreat+run. His 4 movement will hate you) - the roadblock won't hold for long, but it will hold even longer if you do it like that. Roadblocks are effective vs skelletons cause they really can't afford not moving.

Grab the objectives you can, and don't be afraid to pull back and concede the ones on his side of the map if you get to hold them for even a single round. The point lead should be difficult to catch up with due to his slow mobility. Death usually wants a moshpit - force him to play on your terms, don't play on his

[Render]

If you go with List #1, might be worth going Khorne allegiance with Sayl and Sorcerer Lord allied in so that you can take Brazen Rune and use the blood tithe dispel. I haven't played LoN but it seems the anti magic could pay off.

 

[MacDuff]

I don't have the new Nagash book yet, but it sounds like Tomb Kings are a thing again. Does the new Battletomb give buffs that apply to them? I hope so; I have a ton of TK that just need a brown wash.

[Drofnum]

16 minutes ago, MacDuff said:

I don't have the new Nagash book yet, but it sounds like Tomb Kings are a thing again. Does the new Battletomb give buffs that apply to them? I hope so; I have a ton of TK that just need a brown wash.

LoN did nothing at all for Tomb Kings.

[Sheriff]

5 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

LoN did nothing at all for Tomb Kings.

Missed a trick there didn't they, that book was all about trying to sell old models. 

[Drofnum]

On 3/16/2018 at 4:25 PM, Sheriff said:

Missed a trick there didn't they, that book was all about trying to sell old models. 

Nah, I dont think so.  They arent even producing them any more so selling TK wouldnt mean anything to them.  They're dead for good now as far as GW are concerned.

[TheOtherJosh]

On 3/16/2018 at 6:02 PM, MacDuff said:

I don't have the new Nagash book yet, but it sounds like Tomb Kings are a thing again. Does the new Battletomb give buffs that apply to them? I hope so; I have a ton of TK that just need a brown wash.

Nope. Nothing more than existed in GA:Death previously.

All of the new stuff requires keywords they can’t get. (Battle Traits, Spell Lores ... Artefacts etc.) and They still have no allies.

edit: the only bright side is that they no longer have named characters so they can take Death Artefacts and Command Traits. (And Nagash killed off the Tomb Kings in the old world .... )

[tuorgustavo]

I played 3 games against Death using the new rules. Lost 2 of them (1 with Ironjawz and 1 with Tzeentch Arcanites) and won 1 game with the Arcanites.

With orruks it´s pretty hard. There is no good ranged attacks or wizards to snipe characters, once they ´are buble wraped by 20/30 zombies its almost impossible to kill them. Those Hexwraiths and Spirithosts dishing out mortal wounds and ignoring rend make even the mighty Brutes and Mebaboss useless. I have no idea on how to beat Death with my pure Ironjawz army =(

With Disciples of Tzeentch Arcanites things are more balanced. I lost a game mostly because of horrible dice rolling, but also bad positioning and wrong attack sequences. It´s very important to kill the entire units of Hexwraiths and Spirithosts, otherwise they will keep coming back and blocking and killing your units.

In the game I won with them, I used my Skyfires to snipe a Wight King and charged a Vampire Lord. Enlightneds were inspired killed 2 units of Hexwraiths and 1 of Spiritshosts. Same for the Ogroid, that charged and killed Spirithosts and wiped them. The rest were some hounds and zombies that died with little effort. 

I think the main way to deal with them is to destroy the whole unit before attacking other, sniping heroes if possible and keep safe distance from Gravesites. (There should be a way to destroy those dammed things)