Are you allowing Endless Spells to "set up" through spellportal?

[Oreaper84]

12 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

You will have to be interested in arguing the point, if you ignore all rules and make up your own stuff.

Just remember the basic rule, Warscroll abilities overwrite base rules. If you take a closer look at the warscroll, you will see

that the casting from the portal is an ability which in this case overwrites the base rule of "withing the caster"

Just because a point seems to be unresolvable to YOU doesn't mean you just declare it unresolvable and expect other people to be quite about it.

Sorry, i didn't mean to be so blunt about it but i am tired of people just declaring Total Truth without any piece of evidence, totally ignoring already existing evidence or proof.

So i think the point of this thread is to discuss this interaction, and as the OP says they are looking for feedback on how people play. You will hopefully forgive me Kurrilino but you have 3 posts in a row and you seem rather agitated at this discussion so i would kindly remind you of the point of this discussion is not because there is not a definite fact on how this rule is interpreted.

 

In my gaming group we are up in the air about how this ruling works. Not just with the portal, but with the Balewind vortex too. We are about 50/50 with people absolutely sure it works one of the 2 ways listed above.  I for one take the path of least resistance and usually defer to what my opponent thinks because i think it is fine either way.

I also am hoping that this is addressed in some for from GW, because we have to remember that these endless spells are a brand new thing and that GW might be using the feedback we give to FAQ appropriately one way or the other for the sake of balance.

[Mephisto]

To answer your question plainly without debate. I allow it. Simplified version of my reasoning is that ranges are ranges. 

The real problematic part is the interaction between spell portal and a predatory spell which can, as written, essentially infinitely teleport back and forth dealing mortal wounds each time. Clearly this is an oversight but I've not seen anyone abuse it yet... when they do it'll be 32 damage grots discussions all over again.

For kicks, 

Umbral Spell Portal, "if a predatory endless spell finishes a move within 6" of an Umbral Spellportal model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again." Wait a minute, "set it up again."  Oh no, what's it say here under Purple Sun of Shyish... "When this model is set up, the player who set it up can immediately make a move with it." Why... why GW? 

[Kurrilino]

3 hours ago, Oreaper84 said:

So i think the point of this thread is to discuss this interaction, and as the OP says they are looking for feedback on how people play. You will hopefully forgive me Kurrilino but you have 3 posts in a row and you seem rather agitated at this discussion so i would kindly remind you of the point of this discussion is not because there is not a definite fact on how this rule is interpreted.

 

Well except there is a definite fact because the rule is clear. A red light is a red light there is no need to interpret it as purple or brown.

I don't know what it is with Warhammer. As soon as people don't like stuff they somehow read the rules with adding or subtracting fantasy stuff.

But in this case it's clearly ruled.  You cast from the end of the portal. This ability overwrites the basic setup rule. It's that easy, no room for if and when

So the point that the rule is not clear is completely invalid.

By your logic i could ask how many attacks do you guys play if the warscroll states 3. We play it with attacking 7 times because it doesn't specify you can't attack 7 times.

And i am no really  interested in how the warscroll is interpreted because the rules are not clear on the 7 attacks and  we need an FAQ here.

I just  want to know how you guys play 3 attacks. Is it 7 or 15 or 29.

I say all thist with the most respect for all of you guys i just don't know how to handle if guys take a clearly written rule and state it's not clear.

Again, warscroll abilities overwrite basic rules. Setup within "insert" inches is the basic rule. Cast from 2nd portal is the "Passage" abilitie.

It really can't be much more clear.

 

 

 

[Overread]

44 minutes ago, Mephisto said:

Umbral Spell Portal, "if a predatory endless spell finishes a move within 6" of an Umbral Spellportal model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again." Wait a minute, "set it up again."  Oh no, what's it say here under Purple Sun of Shyish... "When this model is set up, the player who set it up can immediately make a move with it." Why... why GW? 

Yeah that's one that is clearly in need of repair. 

Thankfully infinite triggering abilities aren't part of Warhammer so most people can see that whilst casting through a portal can be intentional; the idea of casting infinite abilities like that clearly isn't. 

[Kurrilino]

42 minutes ago, Mephisto said:

For kicks, 

Umbral Spell Portal, "if a predatory endless spell finishes a move within 6" of an Umbral Spellportal model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again." Wait a minute, "set it up again."  Oh no, what's it say here under Purple Sun of Shyish... "When this model is set up, the player who set it up can immediately make a move with it." Why... why GW? 

lol this is a good one. But it is still clear. One is the summuning rule setup and the other one the abilitie setup rule of the spell portal. We can't mix rules.

You summon it, move it that's it for summoning. Everything after is not summoning anymore. But i agree you get a good laugh out of it.

 

[Carnelian]

4 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

Well except there is a definite fact because the rule is clear....

 

 

 

You've made your point (repeatedly).

it's been politely suggested to you that you've made your point firmly enough already 

You've made the same point again. 

Time to walk away and let others into the conversation 

[Kurrilino]

3 hours ago, Carnelian said:

You've made your point (repeatedly).

it's been politely suggested to you that you've made your point firmly enough already 

You've made the same point again. 

Time to walk away and let others into the conversation 

First of all you don't tell me what to do.

Second, i will repeat this point as many times as people try to declare something utterly wrong as right.

We are are sadly living in a world where it is just enough to declare something as right even if all evidence or proof

say something completely different and i will stand up against it.

You can invite as many people into the conversation as you want but it will not change the fact that the OP is posting utter nonsense.

I actually invite you politely  to bring forward some evidence or proof that shows me wrong and i will silence immediately.

 

 

 

 

[broche]

RAW predatory endless spell and portal trigger an infinite loop. So play That Way then (most likely alone)

[Kurrilino]

May i ask what the infinite loop has to do with casting through the portal ?

 

I shouldn't even ask. But what makes you think the infinite loop is somehow possible ?

[Olincay]

My lord, this thread is making me thirsty.
From the excessive saltyness. 

[Arentius]

3 hours ago, broche said:

RAW predatory endless spell and portal trigger an infinite loop. So play That Way then (most likely alone)

There is no infinite loop, if a predatory endless spell ENDS its move within 6" of a portal it travels, passing by and ending further than 6" doesn't.

 

 

This argument of the rule does bring up another interesting interaction with Arkhans Command ability, increasing the range of all friendly wizards spells by 6" ...if spells aren't allowed to be cast through the portal then Arkhans ability wouldn't work on Endless spells either.

 

 

[ianob]

3 hours ago, Olincay said:

My lord, this thread is making me thirsty.
From the excessive saltyness. 

Why can we not have a discussion about a rules interaction without comments like this? There's really no need. It's a discussion about an interaction that's yet to be FAQd, people are (sometimes strongly) giving their opinions, but you're assuming that they have an agenda behind those opinions with a comment like this. For example, I started the thread, and I primarily play Death; casting spells through a portal would be a bigger benefit to me than any other army in the game. All I care about is rules accuracy, nothing more.

So yeah, as toxic as a couple of people have been already in this thread, at least they were on topic. Let's try to keep it on topic.

 

7 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

First of all you don't tell me what to do.

Second, i will repeat this point as many times as people try to declare something utterly wrong as right.

We are are sadly living in a world where it is just enough to declare something as right even if all evidence or proof

say something completely different and i will stand up against it.

You can invite as many people into the conversation as you want but it will not change the fact that the OP is posting utter nonsense.

I actually invite you politely  to bring forward some evidence or proof that shows me wrong and i will silence immediately

 

You seem to be letting an excessive amount of emotion in to your attempted arguments here  Take a step back, it's a rules discussion, not life or Death. And no one is declaring anything as fact - other than the fact that the rules do not cover this interaction adequately, hence us trying to have a discussion about how people play it

And try to be less toxic whilst you're at it. It's just a game of toy soldiers and we're just discussing how it works!

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Can I ask folks to calm down. Some of the comments in this thread is not what we want on this forum. 

+++ Mod Hat Off +++

Personally, I think you can cast Endless Spells through the portal as they are spells but can see where people are getting stuck. As mentioned already, drop AOSFAQ@gwplc.com a message about this question and it will get answered  

[Kirjava13]

Is your red pen broken Gaz

[Fluttershy]

what about setting up a balwind vortex trough the portals?

"If successfully cast, set up a Balewind Vortex model within 1" of the caster and more than 3" from any enemy models, and then place the caster on the upper platform."

 

beam me up scotty

[Overread]

Neat idea but I think not; whilst you could indeed cast Balewind through the portal, you can't move units through a portal. So the spell would appear on the other side, but the caster wouldn't be moved. As a result you'd have a vortex with nothing to do. There aren't even rules to consider capturing a Vortex for personal use (though it has got a wound marker so in theory you could use it to block a pathway though its not really a sensible use. 

[Fluttershy]

12 hours ago, Overread said:

So the spell would appear on the other side, but the caster wouldn't be moved.

nope, sorry

rules of the balewind clearly says: "and then place the caster on the upper platform. As long as the Balewind Vortex remains on the battlefield, the caster and the Balewind Vortex are treated as being a single model from the caster’s army that uses the caster’s warscroll as well as the Endless Spells rules. It is treated as an enemy model by the opposing player’s army."

so if you're allowed to set it up through the portal, your caster lands ontop of it - no matter what

 

[Waiyuren]

Errata in; ianob is right... Endless spells cannot be set up through portals. ?

Sorry for doubting you, ianob.