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Army Roster and switching Allegience to Grand Alliance


HorseOnABeachBall

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Hello all

I don't see this particular line in the rules anymore;

"....You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to" GHB17 pg 77.

 

This rule allowed a verminus army to run their stormvermin as battleline but still have access to GA chaos.

Where is this rule exactly in AoS2?

 

I've seen a few posters answer the question, but none have actually cited where the rule is.

 

Thanks in advance!

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It has been worded differently this edition.

If you have a look in Generals hand book it is worded as battleline in x "army" where it used to be alleigence.

This is ao you get the bennifits of your battleline but your alleigence is diffined differenyly to your army. So for example you could run a Nurgle Army to make Putrid Blightkings battleline but still take the Chaos alleigence abilities.

I hope this has made it clear as mud.

Edit: page 242 of the core rulebook is where this is best explained. Talks about your army as seperate from your alleigence.

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It does not work anymore, you cannot default back to GA abilities and still get the Battleline-ifs as in the previous edition.

To benefit from specific battleline-ifs, your army has to be an X-Army, where X stands for the faction you have chosen (sometimes there are other restrictions but this is the most common one). This is made clear in the last sentence on the allegiance section. (and another one under the Grand Alliance paragraph)

Quote

For example, if all of the units in an army have the STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword, then the army can have allegiance to the Stormcast Eternals faction, and would be referred to as a Stormcast Eternal army.

There is a chance that they row back on that one and FAQ it, but as it stands what you ask is no longer possible by RAW. This seems to be in accordance with what GW has been doing throughout the edition, clearer borders between rules and factions. So there is a good chance this is exactly what they wanted and it's here to stay.

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That's a point that is baffling me, too.

The old Generals Handbook 2017 actually had that point on page 77.

Quote

You must also record the allegiance abilities for your army. You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your Army belongs to. For example, an army with the STORMCAST ETERNALS allegiance could either use the Stormcast Eternals allegiance abilities or the Order allegiance abilites.

I actually don't know why this point is not included into the new rules (if it should have been included, it should have been in the Point "Grand Alliance").

Did GW simply forget it or was it planned to weaken factions that only have army specific Battleline units and don't have there own Allegiance Abilities.

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12 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

I actually don't know why this point is not included into the new rules (if it should have been included, it should have been in the Point "Grand Alliance").

Did GW simply forget it or was it planned to weaken factions that only have army specific Battleline units and don't have there own Allegiance Abilities.

Either they wanted it gone and the upcoming FAQ will make it even clearer (tbh it's already crystal...) or they'll add the wording from last GHB and somewhat change the Designer's Commentary.

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26 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Either they wanted it gone and the upcoming FAQ will make it even clearer (tbh it's already crystal...)

This would be strange, after more specified Allegiance Abilities are normally stronger than the Grand Alliances Allegiance Abilities (do to the restricted unit choices), so forbidding them to armies that didn't have there own actually seems wrong.

 

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On 7/17/2018 at 4:17 PM, Xasz said:

It does not work anymore, you cannot default back to GA abilities and still get the Battleline-ifs as in the previous edition.

To benefit from specific battleline-ifs, your army has to be an X-Army, where X stands for the faction you have chosen (sometimes there are other restrictions but this is the most common one). This is made clear in the last sentence on the allegiance section. (and another one under the Grand Alliance paragraph)

There is a chance that they row back on that one and FAQ it, but as it stands what you ask is no longer possible by RAW. This seems to be in accordance with what GW has been doing throughout the edition, clearer borders between rules and factions. So there is a good chance this is exactly what they wanted and it's here to stay.

The keybword in your quoted sentence is CAN, if you have the ABILITY to take an alliegence then you are able to be called that army.

It also states if your army qualifies for multiple alliegences than it can pick one. But what it doesn't state is that alliegence then becomes your "Army".

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3 hours ago, Davros said:

The keybword in your quoted sentence is CAN, if you have the ABILITY to take an alliegence then you are able to be called that army.

It also states if your army qualifies for multiple alliegences than it can pick one. But what it doesn't state is that alliegence then becomes your "Army".

Sadly, there is no other description on how an army becomes an X-army, at least that I'm aware of.

The "can" is there to indicate that an SCE force could surely take another faction/allegiance if they have the keyword for it. What is important, is the second part of the sentence, that your army is now without doubt considered a SCE army if you take this allegiance. 

I know some people are not thrilled about this and for some it is a matter of opinion, but as it stands purely after RAW you cannot default back to  GA abilities. Luckily the big FAQ is due this month, so GW might clear this up 'soonish'.

 

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5 hours ago, Xasz said:

Sadly, there is no other description on how an army becomes an X-army, at least that I'm aware of.

The "can" is there to indicate that an SCE force could surely take another faction/allegiance if they have the keyword for it. What is important, is the second part of the sentence, that your army is now without doubt considered a SCE army if you take this allegiance. 

I know some people are not thrilled about this and for some it is a matter of opinion, but as it stands purely after RAW you cannot default back to  GA abilities. Luckily the big FAQ is due this month, so GW might clear this up 'soonish'.

 

There is no other way that an army becomes x-army becauese there is no need to. Same wording on page 242 in regards to a grand alliance.

 

But it is always mentioned that your army can choose any alliegence abilities it is able to claim. So if you had a skaven pestilense army you would have keywords NURGLE, CHAOS and PESTILENCE. You would be elligable to any of the keywords to take thier alliegnce abilities, or choose which one for you battleline requirements.

"Army" and "Alliegence" are two seperate things in the designers comentory the come under different headings, in the rules they come under different headings. Not once in the rules does it say that alliegence and army are the same thing.

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3 minutes ago, Davros said:

There is no other way that an army becomes x-army becauese there is no need to. Same wording on page 242 in regards to a grand alliance.

 

But it is always mentioned that your army can choose any alliegence abilities it is able to claim. So if you had a skaven pestilense army you would have keywords NURGLE, CHAOS and PESTILENCE. You would be elligable to any of the keywords to take thier alliegnce abilities, or choose which one for you battleline requirements.

"Army" and "Alliegence" are two seperate things in the designers comentory the come under different headings, in the rules they come under different headings. Not once in the rules does it say that alliegence and army are the same thing.

The problem, is that it's not worded that way currently. I expect them to clarify this with the upcoming FAQ.

As per rules, your army becomes a faction specific army only AFTER you chose your set of allegiance abilities. The last sentence is the issue and pretty much reverses the way we picked armies before 2.0.

This will most likely be cleared up in a couple days, so further arguing is most likely for naught.

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5 minutes ago, Xasz said:

The problem, is that it's not worded that way currently. I expect them to clarify this with the upcoming FAQ.

As per rules, your army becomes a faction specific army only AFTER you chose your set of allegiance abilities. The last sentence is the issue and pretty much reverses the way we picked armies before 2.0.

This will most likely be cleared up in a couple days, so further arguing is most likely for naught.

True, this is probably for nought. Lets just agree that an FAQ is needed because GW is terrible at writing rules.

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