Chikout Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Since it was mostly his comments that started this thread, it is worth sharing this post from Jack probably the best aos player in the world Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 All of their suggestions are a big yes. I wonder if there is any chance that it will reach GW and if they have any motivation to fix the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Vextol said: Except kroak ignores effects that would instantly kill him. So he'd simply take d6 mortal wounds and then enter the ethereal plane of existence, not being placed and yet......... Not being killed ?? What are you reffering to? Does dispelling a balewind/chromatic cogs normally slay units, or deal D6 mortal wounds? Would be news to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorize Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quick question, why does the the Gort Warboss command ability stack? Wouldn't the FAQ for Blessed Weapons set a precedent for how multiple 6+ trigger abilities interact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Xasz said: All of their suggestions are a big yes. I wonder if there is any chance that it will reach GW and if they have any motivation to fix the issues. Yes this will reach GW and yes they will review and fix if there is an issue (or enough people say they do not like how something works). Just need to remind you all that if you have any feedback/questions, email AOSFAQ@gwplc.com This thread does seem to have exploded with discussion but I think the key points people have to remember are..... This is a brand new version of the game which has quite a few changes to the core rules There are over 1000 Warscrolls and Battalions, all with their own interactions There's different ways how players will use this game (Open, Narrative, Matched) and they all demand different things from the game There's only so much you can test if you want to get something to market They also work on other projects Now I'm sure some people are thinking that GW can open playtesting up or have more playtesters and other suggestions but if you step back and think about what has gotten through the holes, it's actually quite impressive there's so few 'problems'. Problems which can be fixed with either an update to the Warscrolls or a tweak to the rules via a FAQ. So if you have any issues, please email AOSFAQ@gwplc.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heywoah_twitch Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 16 hours ago, HollowHills said: One thing I don't like about AoS 2, you can argue which artefacts are best for which armies but the malign sorcery relics are almost universally better than the faction specific ones. For example the weapon that gives you a flat +1 to hit and wound. I think this it a good thing - kinda. It means that my army now has good options for artefacts, whereas before they were trash. Now, it's true that everyone has access to these and so it's not really like I'm any better off relatively speaking, but it feels better at least. It was a quarter-step in the direction of them doing the right thing and going over every faction to give them a digital allegiance+warscroll+battalion facelift for a brand new edition like they should have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 It's borderline painful how they attempted to see how the game devs now opened up old wounds again with a FAQ that should have never happened. A rule of 1 for spells already proved good, making 1 exception is enough for something broken. A rule of 1 for command abilities is also needed as a blanket rule, rather than having months of "cat and mouse play" between playerbase and devs to see what command abilities end up being problematic when spammed and which aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 On the brightside, as a Tzeentch player I'm most likely sticking to my own artefacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vextol Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Mayple said: What are you reffering to? Does dispelling a balewind/chromatic cogs normally slay units, or deal D6 mortal wounds? Would be news to me Kroak cannot be slain outright, it's in his scroll. If an ability would kill him, he takes d6 mortals instead. If you dispel a balewind, you place the wizard so he isn't within 3 inches of any enemies. If you can't, they are slain. You can accomplish this by surrounding the balewind with enemies so they cannot physically be placed. The joke is that kroak would enter an infinite loop. If you surround the balewind and then dispel it, you can't place kroak down, so he gets slain, except he can't get slain so he takes d6 mortals. But you still have to place him, which you can't so he get slain, except he can't get slain so.... And so on. It's actually the fist infinite loop I've seen in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 14 hours ago, Karol said: I am sorry, but with the rules he has right now, you would not expect to see him very often at top tables? I guess you could build a tournament list that is ment to end up in the middle, and then running in to a Kroak list would be based on luck in games 1-2, but it still would be a stretch to expect to not face at least one list. He's strong, but not unbeatable. Facing him 1/5 games in a tournament is fine, even without the lens, if you have a well designed list and play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, Vextol said: Kroak cannot be slain outright, it's in his scroll. If an ability would kill him, he takes d6 mortals instead. If you dispel a balewind, you place the wizard so he isn't within 3 inches of any enemies. If you can't, they are slain. You can accomplish this by surrounding the balewind with enemies so they cannot physically be placed. The joke is that kroak would enter an infinite loop. If you surround the balewind and then dispel it, you can't place kroak down, so he gets slain, except he can't get slain so he takes d6 mortals. But you still have to place him, which you can't so he get slain, except he can't get slain so.... And so on. It's actually the fist infinite loop I've seen in this game. Nice! Gave me a good laugh. Schródinger's Kroak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, Vextol said: Kroak cannot be slain outright, it's in his scroll. If an ability would kill him, he takes d6 mortals instead. If you dispel a balewind, you place the wizard so he isn't within 3 inches of any enemies. If you can't, they are slain. You can accomplish this by surrounding the balewind with enemies so they cannot physically be placed. The joke is that kroak would enter an infinite loop. If you surround the balewind and then dispel it, you can't place kroak down, so he gets slain, except he can't get slain so he takes d6 mortals. But you still have to place him, which you can't so he get slain, except he can't get slain so.... And so on. It's actually the fist infinite loop I've seen in this game. But wouldn't he ultimately be slain at the end of the battleround, because the number of wounds (which would be infinite D6) excels his bravery at the end of the battleround? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Now I can't stop imagining Kroak glitching out like a 3d physics model getting stuck in terrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Infeston said: But wouldn't he ultimately be slain at the end of the battleround, because the number of wounds (which would be infinite D6) excels his bravery at the end of the battleround? If you ever get out of balewind dispel loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, JackStreicher said: you are the incarnation of what is wrong with the competetive community. we are talking about a GAME here - one that Doesn‘t even require a lot of skill and one that is mostly won by lists and matchups. and again it is a GAME. Stop taking it siriously like it is actually important to the world. This competitive-player-bashing attitude baffles me whenever I see it. Have you not ever considered that to some people, trying to play the game to perfection is fun? And that a part of playing the game to perfection is designing lists to perfection? I do it because that's what's fun to me. Why are you going around screaming out that my way of having fun is inferior to yours? The notion is absurd to me. You are wrong, the game requires tons of skill to play. There's nothing strange about taking the things you love seriously. You don't have to if you don't want to, but if some of us do, that's absolutely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip4Tap Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, JackStreicher said: *sigh* you are the incarnation of what is wrong with the competetive community. we are talking about a GAME here - one that Doesn‘t even require a lot of skill and one that is mostly won by lists and matchups. and again it is a GAME. Stop taking it siriously like it is actually important to the world. btw you actually can improve your jump power by binding bricks to your feet it‘s called training with weights. I can’t believe no-one has picked this up yet. I think this response is just awful (my opinion). Yes it is a game, however, I completely disagree with you I actually think AoS can have a very high skill cap especially at the top level of play. There’s a lot to consider going into every game. It’s not just list/matchup dependant. Again yes it’s a game. These forums were created to talk about said game. It’s not the most important thing in the world nor should it be. However, people are invested in it. Financially, emotionally and people have put huge amounts of time into this hobby. I honestly don’t see what you were trying to accomplish from your post apart from to bash someone online. @Solaris got in just before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 hours ago, ianob said: Lets keep some perspective here though guys. Are the broken things - the actually broken ones (command stacking, Seraphon summoning, Kroak, maybe others that we havent spotted yet potentially) really broken? Yes. Horribly! Are they hard to fix? Hell no. Is the game overall good, and even moreso, an improvement on v1? Absolutely! Although I like your general attitude here, I still maintain that most things aren't as horribly broken as people seem to think. The one exception I can think of currently is Darren Watson's Engine spamming list, I have absolutely no idea how to beat that. Aside from that one example, things just aren't as bad as people like to think. We (Sweden) came in second place. We didn't take any of the allegedly broken things. It simply is not all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip4Tap Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Solaris said: Although I like your general attitude here, I still maintain that most things aren't as horribly broken as people seem to think. The one exception I can think of currently is Darren Watson's Engine spamming list, I have absolutely no idea how to beat that. Aside from that one example, things just aren't as bad as people like to think. We (Sweden) came in second place. We didn't take any of the allegedly broken things. It simply is not all that bad. From the games I’ve played so far I think the only things that are truly broken are the Engine lists and grots ability stacking/spamming thing. nothing else feels insane to me. Going into games I’ve felt like I can beat everything, apart from Engine spam. I think the way to beat that is either alpha the hell outta it or flood the table with as many bodies as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 14 hours ago, rokapoke said: That said, most of the play testers are top-end players. At the top tables, most of the regulars know how to beat those cheesy exploit combos/lists, whereas that is 100% not true of scrubs like myself. So it’s theoretically possible that the play testers were not really able to fully break the lists the way the community can, since the community faces a wider range of skill levels. I think that's part of the problem. You get high end players, who get free goods from GW. They are interested in how they perceive the game should be played, etc. They need more scrubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donal Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Mikeboll said: In five games I summoned 5 flesh hound once. That won me that game. Otherwise the blood tithe table is better. I often used the apoplectic frenzy on the BT to finnish something of or the autodispell. You won that game cause of the Bloodletters The fleshounds just finished it a turn earlier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I just went back and read my own post from yesterday, and I noticed I forgot something important: All the critique aside there is one thing I'd like to say, and that is that we should be thankful for tournaments like this happening shortly after a new release, with the competitive guys min-maxing the heck out of the game. The results may not be what we all like, but after that some adjustments can be made and that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorize Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, Tip4Tap said: From the games I’ve played so far I think the only things that are truly broken are the Engine lists and grots ability stacking/spamming thing. nothing else feels insane to me. Going into games I’ve felt like I can beat everything, apart from Engine spam. I think the way to beat that is either alpha the hell outta it or flood the table with as many bodies as you can. Again quick question, why does the Gort Warboss command ability stack? Wouldn't the FAQ for Blessed Weapons set a precedent for how multiple 6+ trigger abilities interact or is it another warscroll people are talking about? (Sorry for dubble post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 @chord I agree with you. The thing is that we don't really know who gets to testplay the game. And from the information I got it seems like most of the playtesters are competitive players. It would be better if there was a mixture of different kinds of players also for playtesting. If only the competitive crowd has their saying on how the game should be designed, a huge amount of other players get excluded. But in the end I also don't know who playtests these rules. Maybe it is only GW staff, maybe they ask competitive players or maybe the select players at random. Ideally they should pick a variety of different players and not only orient on the feedback of the top competitive players. On the other hand I don't play competitive play very often and if something is really broken in my gaming group we agree on not using this rule. So I personally have no problem with most of the things here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Thorize said: Again quick question, why does the Gort Warboss command ability stack? Wouldn't the FAQ for Blessed Weapons set a precedent for how multiple 6+ trigger abilities interact or is it another warscroll people are talking about? (Sorry for dubble post) One word: Shrooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attackmack Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Ive not read the entire thread, but got stuck on something on the first post someone can probably clear up. I thought there WAS an initiative roll the first turn, and if that roll is a tie the player who finished setup first gets to choose. Seems from first post this is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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