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Mourngul nerfed again


ianob

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Haha, see I actually like the update. He feels inline with the rest of nighthaunt and a price drop to 300. He's far from the glory days of the past ( let's be honest he was broken as heck!) But I think I like what he has to offer for 300points. Might just be me!?

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And don't forget that Nighthaunts don't have that much choice in behemoth (black coach) and especially MONSTERS... I love this miniature. Point wise it is on par with other monsters.  And it is not that much expensive. (it is not that big also, ok).

I think I'll get one. I'll try to buff it with the new NH heros...

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Let's be fair. Back in the days you brought one Mourngul to the table and your enemy was sad, you brought two and hard worn verterans cried. I also think he falls nicely in line with what we have seen in Nighthaunt so far.  Put him behind a line of Chainrasps, let him debuff kill and heal.

I also wonder a lot why people only see the single warscroll....  See the whole picture.
The mourngul back in the days was a standalone tank that shredded through your enemies battlelines, healing himself by killing. Now he is part of a faction with allegiance abilities and mechanics, which he wasn't back then. Also consider the buffs.

- Place a Spirit Torment close to him and he heals 2d3 per round (if anything was killed, but if you haven't him where he can kill stuff you are doing it wrong anyway).
- Command Abilities which let him reroll or add 1 to hit.

-4+Plus save with -1 to hit will make him still pure horror high rend hero killers.

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The lad's fine. He was pretty broken before, and he meshes nicely with the rest of the army now (a rare thing for FW units).  I think he's a good buy for 300, personally. I was waiting to see the new warscroll before investing in one, but I'm pretty sold.

Theoretically, that debuff to hit would stack with the Executioner's, right? That's probably too big an investment to be very useful, but still.

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I like the mortal wound output tbh. He’s got enough attacks that it’s a good chance he’ll get 1 or 2. That should guarantee a killed model and that d3 heal.

Plus he’ll be able to come up from the underworld and can be in range of a hero to reroll charges making him a bit more reliable.

Save change sucks a bit though!

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It is just sad that his damage output is similar to three Cairn Wraiths without rerolls.

3's and 3's with -1 Rend and 2 damage is the same as a Cairn Wraith.  Frightful Touch literally made his attack profile the same.  8 Attacks is also better of course...  but he is just shy of the damage output of three Cairn Wraiths.  Just shy of the wounds of three Cairn Wraiths.

For comparison... three Cairn Wraiths are 180 points.  Is +120 points worth the debuff to hit and the heal when killing models on a unit that gets worse as it gets injured and draws all the fire?  Cairn Wraiths even give themselves the 6++ if rumored Allegiance abilities are true.

I don't think he is bad... I think he is 'meh'.  For our only actual monster that is disappointing.  I understand he is not in a vacuum and there are buffs and stuff and synergies... but most monsters gain synergies from their armies and also still bring some heavy hitting or extra durability to allow them to play a lynchpin or centerpiece roll on the table.  So far I agree with Arael_Greywings that he is more of a second wave "behind the battle line" support model that has some debuffs and needs local support to make an impact in the battle.

Which just isn't something Nighthaunt really needs from what we have seen.  That describes pretty much every unit we have been shown so far, I was hoping for him to be a bruiser again.  Doesn't have to be the OP version from before, but either make him do some frightful damage, OR make him particularly tanky.  He is neither.

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I really like this new version as it feels like they have found a good balance between points and effectiveness, at 300 I might even consider buying another one. Is it good, personally yeah I like it but there are a few things we need to consider, the nighthaunt book isn't out yet so there will probably be synergies that make the mourngul better in some way; the new spirit of torment can heal D3 wounds if your army kills 3 models combined with its own rule to heal is good but not broken. 

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7 minutes ago, DodgyRoller said:

I really like this new version as it feels like they have found a good balance between points and effectiveness, at 300 I might even consider buying another one. Is it good, personally yeah I like it but there are a few things we need to consider, the nighthaunt book isn't out yet so there will probably be synergies that make the mourngul better in some way; the new spirit of torment can heal D3 wounds if your army kills 3 models combined with its own rule to heal is good but not broken. 

I agree, he is likely going to be just fine.

It is a matter of expectations.  I was expecting him as our only real monster to get a little bit of a durability or damage beef up to let him be a front line bruiser like he originally was designed as.  Instead he got some shuffled around stats, and seems like he will fit a midline support role instead.  Which, to me, is a shame for our only potential centerpiece monster model.

Black Coaches are cool, but they are not a dreaded beast that heads your army's charge or goes head to head against your enemy's melee monster in an epic duel.

Mounrgul looks like a monster designed to help out in the battleline melee.

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3 hours ago, Arael_Greywings said:

Let's be fair. Back in the days you brought one Mourngul to the table and your enemy was sad, you brought two and hard worn verterans cried. I also think he falls nicely in line with what we have seen in Nighthaunt so far.  Put him behind a line of Chainrasps, let him debuff kill and heal.

I also wonder a lot why people only see the single warscroll....  See the whole picture.
The mourngul back in the days was a standalone tank that shredded through your enemies battlelines, healing himself by killing. Now he is part of a faction with allegiance abilities and mechanics, which he wasn't back then. Also consider the buffs.

- Place a Spirit Torment close to him and he heals 2d3 per round (if anything was killed, but if you haven't him where he can kill stuff you are doing it wrong anyway).
- Command Abilities which let him reroll or add 1 to hit.

-4+Plus save with -1 to hit will make him still pure horror high rend hero killers.

He's sure gonna debuff a whole lot of _models_ from behind that wall of Chainrasps. Although I agree with most other points, he's still pretty good, although his damage output deservers to be a bit higher.

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24 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

As others have noted, he has access to a lot more synergy now. He's finally a part of your army now, not just a 400pt autoinclude torpedo you launched at your opponent and otherwise left it to maraud through their army. 

He doesn't have anymore synergy than he did in previous incarnations. Now his abilities are mostly the same as all the other Nighthaunts, which I think makes him less interesting as a unit. I'll probably still run mine since I have the model, but if I didn't I probably wouldn't buy one. He's not overpriced for the points, but not exactly a good deal either. He doesn't need to be so good as to be an autoinclude/buy, but now that Nighthaunt will have some options(the biggest reason I got one was I was tired of so many hexwraiths and spirithosts), a pricey(points mostly, and somewhat money, though he's not too bad) behemoth needs something special to justify buying him. Minus ones to hit and self healing are nice little bits of window dressing,  but it feels like he should have some sort of "star" ability. Right now he's just an overgrown spook that are soon to be a dime a dozen in the Nighthaunt army, many of them with interesting abilities.

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I didn't use the previous 350pt warscroll but I might now.  I like the addition of frightful touch instead of the +1 damage on 6s.  Before if you rolled two 6s in your eight attacks you only got the bonus if those hits also wounded and the saving throw was failed.  Now two 6s is 4 mortal wounds straight off.

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3 hours ago, bsharitt said:

He doesn't have anymore synergy than he did in previous incarnations. Now his abilities are mostly the same as all the other Nighthaunts, which I think makes him less interesting as a unit. I'll probably still run mine since I have the model, but if I didn't I probably wouldn't buy one. He's not overpriced for the points, but not exactly a good deal either. He doesn't need to be so good as to be an autoinclude/buy, but now that Nighthaunt will have some options(the biggest reason I got one was I was tired of so many hexwraiths and spirithosts), a pricey(points mostly, and somewhat money, though he's not too bad) behemoth needs something special to justify buying him. Minus ones to hit and self healing are nice little bits of window dressing,  but it feels like he should have some sort of "star" ability. Right now he's just an overgrown spook that are soon to be a dime a dozen in the Nighthaunt army, many of them with interesting abilities.

This is what I am saying.

He is not bad, and he might be alright/good with the right combo/strat so I will withhold throwing in the "I will never use him" towel, but he is also nothing special.  For 300 points I could get so many other interesting Nighthaunt things.  Lady Olynder already can give out -1 to hits to units as a spell.  Which yes that could potentially stack and with the Lord Executioner we could likely get some beat stick heroes hitting on 5+ or 6+ which can save unlives.

But is 300 points worth that? I can almost bring Arkhan the Black for that point range and Arkhan has way more interesting abilities.  Any of the Mortarchs for that matter.  Unless the new Black Coach is bad, I can't see making the center piece of my army a Mourngul.  I have been struggling to justify keeping the 350 pt version in my list for the past few months, and I don't see him surviving the cut going forward.  The stats and abilities of Bladegeists and Harrows are likely going to be the decider.

Again I reserve final judgement for proper Battle Tome release, but he is not making me excited to field one, or even consider buying a second one.

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6 hours ago, Nevar said:

I don't think he is bad... I think he is 'meh'. 

That is exactly how I feel.

Considering where the Mourngul recently was that’s a solid buff in my book.  I might get one just to try and figure this fuggly out.

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He used to be a unique tank that the ghosts needed, so I bought one in the hopes he would see a fair amount of play.

Now he is just like every other things the ghosts have, more filler. With all the heros having 7 wounds or less and now no more 3+ on Mounrgul I'll just say this. The Nightaunt need a spectacular wound protection ability for the army in the battletome (Like deathless minions on 5+ great) or they will just be trash. Healing is great but you have to survive the turn, which doesn't look likely to happen for many of our heros. The ghosts are currently just tissue paper. 

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