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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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12 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Ohh good. I hadn't seen the new commentary yet, but I'm glad they cleared that up.

That was in the previous FAQ as well.

@swarmofseals the one thing that Marathi does that nothing else in a DoK army can do is put high rend attacks basically anywhere on the board.  Not only that, but once you have buffed her and sent her off as a heat seeking, hero slaying missile, you can simply stop supporting her for the rest of the game.  She continues to be quite strong even after having been knocked down a couple of rungs.  I have put 15 wounds on a 2+ save rerolling ones monster with her.  Her strength is not in her pure stats, but her ability to easily have her rend buffed, reroll wound rolls, double hits on sixes, reroll hits on turn 3+ or 2+ with a prayer.  And most importantly she makes your opponent have to make a bad decision of either chipping away at her or leaving her alone.

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Not to mention how the Gaze of Morathi can help contribute to splitting up a unit, thus resulting in an opportunity to take out half a unit in the right circumstances given the new split unit rules. 

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Has anyone reviewed the new Malign Sorcery - Artefacts of the Realms yet?

It says you can declare which Realm your army hails from and pick a Artefact.

Edit: Sorry forgot to mentioned, specific to DoK. :) 

Edited by InSaint

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2 hours ago, InSaint said:

Has anyone reviewed the new Malign Sorcery - Artefacts of the Realms yet?

It says you can declare which Realm your army hails from and pick a Artefact.

Yeah, if you look on the main forum there's a couple of threads dedicated to the new endless spells and malign sorcery. I've not investigated their use for Daughters of Khaine, but when I have the book I'll definitely be looking at the options for all of my armies. 

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From Artefacts Shadowmirror and Lens of Reflection are amazing on HaggNarr General

Considering Morathi @Richelieu made some great points and there is even more :

- you can advance her up the board and tarpit big parts of opponent army 

- ability to tarpit almost anything when needed 

- also you can advance her into enemy territory and then next turn blast some endless spells into enemy lines (sure you will be in unbid range but it could be huge bonus in certain situations.

- she is out more mobile hero and likely candidate to be in range to use new CA in new edition on units deep into enemy territory. 

I've used her as a spellcaster early on and then counter charge with monster form, surely it is all match-up dependant as sometimes you want to tarpit enemy army and sometimes it would be risky no to change her. In new edition it's even more difficult choice (and it's a good thing) with two 30'' +1 unbinds (not to mention some arcane terrain bonus) 

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7 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Morathi

I appreciate the tension in the decision of when to change her (assuming you want to change her at some point). Getting wounded in High Oracle mode is soooo bad if you want to transform her later, so in some matchups you may want to transform early just to avoid that happening.

EDIT: Spellmirror and Lens of Refraction are indeed incredible, and I particularly like the lens. Spellmirror seems very inconsistent, albeit capable of protecting against horde buster spells. Lens, on the other hand, makes it soooo much harder to snipe our key heroes with magic. It's difficult to do now with shooting thanks to "Look Out Sir!" but magic is still a problem. A hero with Lens of Refraction is the perfect protection for High Oracle Morathi (although priests with direct damage will still be a problem).

Edited by swarmofseals

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Yeah surely, but in other words she's perfect counter charge hero. Still as I said she opens up many tactical moves which are exclusive to her. Sure on the paper she might not be worth it but I think it takes a lot of time to master using her and when used wisely she is awesome. 

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With some changes to the Idoneth Deepkin warscrolls (better Leviadon, worse Ishlaen Guard), has anyone spotted anything for the Daughters of Khaine? 

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12 minutes ago, syph0n said:

With some changes to the Idoneth Deepkin warscrolls (better Leviadon, worse Ishlaen Guard), has anyone spotted anything for the Daughters of Khaine? 

I read through all warscrolls - I didn't see any changes. 

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Just now, DantePQ said:

I read through all warscrolls - I didn't see any changes. 

Glad I saw your name! I trust master @DantePQ 😂

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Yeah I think the only changes for Daughters has been the point adjustments to the Battalions 

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Here's the outline of a basic competitive list that I'm considering:

3x Hag Queen (180)

2x30 Witch Aelves (540)

2x10 Witch Aelves (200)

Morathi (480)

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)

That's 1730 points, leaving me with 270.

 

Things that I'd consider taking:

Bloodwrack Shrine (220)

Geminids (40)

Cogs (60)

Blood Sisters (140)

Doomfire Warlocks (160)

Morrsarr Guard (160)

Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

 

Blood Sisters are probably the least likely option unless needed for points fit. They are good, I just don't see them filling a need in this list.

Morrsarr Guard provide a second unit that can get around quickly and do some heavy hitting.

Doomfire Warlocks also get around quickly and can harass any vulnerable targets in the backfield while providing some extra magical support.

Khinerai Heartrenders are very flexible and can threaten units all over the board. It's the kind of unit that your opponent has to think about and adjust to, which can encourage mistakes. 

The Bloodwrack Shrine provides a lot of value. It can do great damage to hordes, provides another spellcast, and provides the opportunity to divide your key support abilities across a couple of different targets. With just the cauldron, you have Blood Shield, Lens of Refraction, Orgy of Slaughter, Devoted Disciples, and a prayer all on the same model. That makes for a super juicy target. If you take a shrine as well you can at least move the Lens of Refraction over, thus spreading things out a bit more. 

The most obvious options:

  • One unit of Morrsarr Guard, one unit of Doomfire Warlocks, or two units of Khinerai Heartrenders and then the two endless spells
  • The Bloodwrack Shrine and geminids

Alternately, I could drop 10 Witch Aelves and go with

  • Two choices from the first list above plus geminids
  • Bloodwrack Shrine and Blood Sisters
  • Bloodwrack Shrine and both endless spells with points left over for a further endless spell
  • Bloodwrack Shrine, one unit of Khinerai Heartrenders, and cogs

Honestly I could see almost any of these being good, although I find the shrine and sisters combo the least attractive.

Any thoughts about this choice would be helpful!

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Alright folks!  First 2nd Edition battle report with Snake Girls!  There were a bunch of players there at my FLGS and we just divided up into teams and just did an insane 4000pt per side battle.  The first game we were down a person so I got lucky with 2000pts :D On my side we had Nurgle, Ogres, and myself, vs Nighthaunt, Chaos Marauders, Deepkin, and Clan Skyre. I used this list that I posted earlier:
 
Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair
Hag Queen (60)
- Witchbrew
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice
Hag Queen (60)
- Witchbrew
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Slaughter Queen (100)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair

Battalions
Temple Nest (130)

Total: 1940 / 2000
 
I also had an Athervoid Pendulum, bringing my points to 1980.
 
IMG_20180630_132409330_HDR.jpg

IMG_20180630_132429357_HDR.jpg

IMG_20180630_135703160.jpg

The player directly opposite me had nine rat ogres and a warlock, but he was rather terrified of all of my snakes and basically noped away from my army with his deployment, forcing me to go the long way to get at their flank.  We were just playing to kill each other to get a handle on the new rules.  The highlight of this game was running and charging my blob of Witch Elves with Mindrazor into the middle and murdering a unit of rat ogres, and then proceeding to murder a unit of Thralls before being whittled down to nothing by lots of shooting.

IMG_20180630_140439883.jpg

The first game ended early because we had the 8th player show up and so we restarted with 1000pts a player a side. We had Nighthaunt, Deepkin, Ogres and myself vs Nurgle, Chaos Marauders, Deepkin, and Clan Skyre. I stripped down my previous list to 2 units of 10 Blood Sisters, 2 Bloodwrack Medusae, and 2 Hag Queens with Witchbrew. This game was slightly different, but the Skaven player was still terrified of facing my snake girls head on after seeing what they did last game. :D

IMG_20180630_162312835.jpg

This game went all the way to turn 4 before most of us called it (we were hungry). I ended up destroying the flank with the rat ogres by firstly getting lucky with a 10 inch charge with one unit of Blood Sisters and then rolling a 12 for a unit of Blood Sisters that I had teleported using the Khaliebron Mistress of Illusion trait. That ability won me the game because it let me charge two units of rat ogres with both units, and then the turn after charge a unit of thralls, and then eventually charge the Deepkin player's Eidolon. My opponents were all surprised at how absolutely brutal Blood Sisters are, especially once they all got buffed. My magic was so-so, easily getting my buffs off but I was frequently out of range for my offensive spells. Managed to get my Athervoid pendulum off but the game ended before it could hit anyone.

IMG_20180630_180548842.jpg

Some insights that I learned:

Daughters of Khaine potentially don't need as many command points. While they are certainly helpful, our Blood Rites basically give us the same effect as most of the generic command abilities.

Witchbrew is amazing, eliminating the need for most of your army to have to take battleshock.

Also, the +1 Bravery for each 10 models only takes effect in the Battleshock phase, so that would not effect Mindrazor.


We all had a blast and everyone had fun, even the poor Skaven player that I beat into the ground. He got his revenge by deep striking some ogres and killing one of my Hag Queens. Overall it was interesting to see the reactions of all the players at the table who had never seen the Daughters of Khaine in action. They will certainly remember the experience!

 

Edited by DJMoose
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On a completely different tack, what do you guys do for basing on your DoK armies? I like using scenic/resin bases a lot, but several of the DoK kits make this problematic. Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter have those built in rocks which are dicey to clip off (and create real problems getting the model on the base too), and Morathi has such a developed scenic base already. I really wish there was a nice rolling pin/press mat solution for making greenstuff bases with a khainite temple theme. That'd fit with the Witch Aelf bases and Morathi quite nicely. 

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I've an assembly/painting question too. Khinari  have a lot of detail and a lot of cross over detail. I'm wondering if, besides the head, if there are any other parts people have left off to paint and then assembled after. I'm particularly looking at the legs which can have sashes and such running between them/over them and thus makes for a lot of tight gaps to get a brush around. 

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19 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

On a completely different tack, what do you guys do for basing on your DoK armies? I like using scenic/resin bases a lot, but several of the DoK kits make this problematic. Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter have those built in rocks which are dicey to clip off (and create real problems getting the model on the base too), and Morathi has such a developed scenic base already. I really wish there was a nice rolling pin/press mat solution for making greenstuff bases with a khainite temple theme. That'd fit with the Witch Aelf bases and Morathi quite nicely. 

There's a cthulhu themed greenstuff roller I had my eye on for the Idoneth Deepkin, which I think could really suit the Daughters of Khaine. @Bananamanalso had some incredible looking basing, using temple ruins, columns, pots and things. Awesome.

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Just put a mostly fun list together based around allies and Shadow Patrol. Considering it features a lot of what I visually like It's likely something I'll work toward putting together (even if it sadly has not a single snake*)

The Kraith
Leaders:

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood - General
Sorceress 
Assassin
Hag Queen

Units:
Khinerai Heartrenders 5
Khinerai Heartrenders 5
Khinerai Heartrenders 5
Khinerai Lifetakers 5 (most likely place to put the assassin)

Doomfire Warlocks 5 - mindrazor
Doomfire Warlocks 5 - Shroud of despair

Witch Aelves (bucklers) 20
Witch Elves (blades) 10
Sisters of Slaughter (whips and knives) 10

Behemoth:
War Hydra

Battalions:
Shadow Patrol

Total 1940 - leaving room for Endless Spells

 

 

*actually putting this list together made me realise how expensive units are points wise in AoS. It's really hard to fit a lot of fun/varied stuff into lists. Esp when we are losing 100 points and more to a Battalion. I wonder if in the future the points system might reflect this and split itself into two parts; one part units one part battalions/endless spells. 

The Battalions also run so high in points that its actually hard to bulk out the units in them without ending up with almost nothing but the battalion forming the army itself. 

Edited by Overread

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Yeah, this is where I currently am. I need to pick up some blood sisters to replace the stalkers though:

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- General
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- Artefact: Spellmirror 
- Prayer: Crimson Rejuvenation
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

Battleline
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers

Units
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)

Behemoths
War Hydra (180)
- Allies

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180 / 400
Wounds: 107
 

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7 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

On a completely different tack, what do you guys do for basing on your DoK armies? I like using scenic/resin bases a lot, but several of the DoK kits make this problematic. Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter have those built in rocks which are dicey to clip off (and create real problems getting the model on the base too), and Morathi has such a developed scenic base already. I really wish there was a nice rolling pin/press mat solution for making greenstuff bases with a khainite temple theme. That'd fit with the Witch Aelf bases and Morathi quite nicely. 

Due to Morathi's base and the Witch Elf bases I also went with a sort of ruined temple look.  From my local hobby shop I bought some sheet styrene (aka plasticard) with a 1/2" tiled pattern on it.  And then I just started chopping it up into pieces to make them look like ruined temple tiles.  Easy to work with and very inexpensive compared to buying pre-made bases.

You can see a good example of my bases here.  I plan on filling in the spaces around the tiles with Agrellan Earth.

Medusa and Slaughter Queen.jpg

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20 hours ago, Overread said:

I've an assembly/painting question too. Khinari  have a lot of detail and a lot of cross over detail. I'm wondering if, besides the head, if there are any other parts people have left off to paint and then assembled after. I'm particularly looking at the legs which can have sashes and such running between them/over them and thus makes for a lot of tight gaps to get a brush around. 

I found it basically impossible to try and sub-assemble these models for painting, the components tend to slot in and around one another in a way that would make it awkward to glue together after painting (lots of legs attached to other parts by those sashes and decoration and such).  I would have liked to paint the wings separately but they generally formed too much of the overall shoulder/back portion to really leave off.

On the other side I didn't find them too bad to paint despite that, if you're using the hair options instead of the full helmets then leaving the heads of is probably possible, otherwise they do get in the way a bit, but on such elevated models most of the other detail is fairly accessible.

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Question : I can clearly see how in the Prayers of Khainenite Cult  allegiance Prayers how we are only allowed to pray for one prayer per turn. I am also seeing that we may pray twice, if we know* a prayer from the Prayers of Khainenite Cult. Is there anything preventing us from re-praying a failed prayer, from our warscroll? E.g. If my Slaughter Queen fails her Dance of Doom prayer, can she use her second prayer to pray for the same prayer , on herself?  Secondly, what about Awakening the Avatar, if one priest fails that prayer, could a different priest attempt that same prayer in the same phase?

Question : Are there any known restrictions around Dance of Doom, Orgy of Slaughter CA and Kraith Allegiance Ability and Venom of Negashandra Kraith Artefact? E.g .Could, the Slaughter Queen, attacking twice in the combat phase,  pop her once per combat phase artefact to deal d6 mortals, in the Hero phase if Orgy of Slaughter is used on her, and thus it'll proc twice and each time could potentially proc a Kraith proc? The wording does specifically say for Orgy of Slaughter, "as if it were the combat phase" ... any known limitations with that combo, as written/FAQ'd? I couldn't find anything besides Rule of One preventing a nesting Kraith proc but didn't know if you folks had any other info.

Question Would anyone find value in updating the Header post with all the answer FAQ 2.0 questions folks op in here and ask?  Seems like a centralized place would be a great opportunity for newcomers to obtain clear and concise answers to the most commonly asked question. I don't know what mods/editing posts rules are for this forum but if it's possible I'd love an organized header with hyperlinks, FrequentlyAskedQuestions, Tournament Lists, etc. all dedicated to D.o.K. I wouldn't mind doing the leg work for it too, just throwing it out there.

First post! Been lurking since I started playing a couple months back and am happy to contribute :)

Edited by Jais
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18 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Due to Morathi's base and the Witch Elf bases I also went with a sort of ruined temple look.  From my local hobby shop I bought some sheet styrene (aka plasticard) with a 1/2" tiled pattern on it.  And then I just started chopping it up into pieces to make them look like ruined temple tiles.  Easy to work with and very inexpensive compared to buying pre-made bases.

You can see a good example of my bases here.  I plan on filling in the spaces around the tiles with Agrellan Earth.

Medusa and Slaughter Queen.jpg

Those tiles are ace. Where were they from? Also, what is the Blood Sister conversion for? 

/edit. Saw you said local store. Ordered some Evergreen ones. Cheers!

Edited by syph0n

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6 hours ago, syph0n said:

Those tiles are ace. Where were they from? Also, what is the Blood Sister conversion for? 

/edit. Saw you said local store. Ordered some Evergreen ones. Cheers!

Yeah I think they were Evergreen Hobbies or whatever.

That Blood Sister conversion is for my Slaughter Queen. Both the Slaughter Queen and Medusa are magnetized so I can swap between a Bloodwrack Shrine and a Cauldron of Blood.

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Hi, can anybody shed some light on the DoK start collecting set? I see it has been removed from the GW website (for a re-boxing?) but do we know when it may reappear? 

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7 minutes ago, Redbaron said:

Hi, can anybody shed some light on the DoK start collecting set? I see it has been removed from the GW website (for a re-boxing?) but do we know when it may reappear? 

 

For clarity they've never had one. They had a combined kit of one Blood Cauldron and one Witch Aelves set at discount. The Blood Coven kit (which is what it was called) is being discontinued, though it appears that distributors still have stock for 3rd party retailers (and some local GW stores might also still have stock if you contact them to ask). So it might be around for a little bit more but it should be ended.

Where this leaves daughters is anyones guess. I think GW will give daughters a proper kit and will do something to lower the price of Witch Aelves (which are grossly overpriced right now for a battleline troop choice). But I've not heard anything and chances are even if you contact GW you won't get an answer. 

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