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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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Also don't forget that GW has basically been underproducing for a while due to a factory power shortage as a result of works by the local council. I've no idea if that has been resolved or not but GW has basically been hit and miss with production for a while now. Basically 40K 8th did so well that GW's production is outstripped by demand and now Sigmar 2.0 is likely to be another massive launch. Alongside that GW has been dropping new releases every WEEK.

That said do shop around, stock appears to be getting out to 3rd parties and ebay every so often. Also make use of the "email me when ready" on the GW website. GW do listen to that and if a product gets a lot of unique hits on that it might well bump it up the production slider a bit to get that demand filled. 

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15 hours ago, Gecktron said:

I think every DoK box set will have the problem that they dont really fit well inside the established system. All hero options the followers of Khaine have at the moment are tied to expensive centerpiece models (either the Cauldron of Blood or Morathi). The one set released last year had basically be our Start Collecting box. A Cauldron and one unit of Witch Aelfs comes out at around 105€. Most SC! gives you around 120€ of value. 

Honestly, i wouldn't mind if they just re released the blood coven set.

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Hey everyone, here is my list for AoS 2.0, what do you guys think? I've nearly got it all painted too!  Just working on 10 more witch elves and the 10 khinerai

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine

 - Temple: Khailebron


LEADERS

Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion
- Prayer : Catechism of Murder

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact : Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows : The Withering

Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Sacrament of Blood


UNITS

5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

30 x Witch Aelves (270)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
-Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
-Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows : Shroud of Despair

Endless Spells
- Chronomantic Cogs (60)
- Geminids of Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total Points 2000
Total Wounds 105


 

7516800976_IMG_0386.JPG

Edited by Lord_of_Khaine
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I made a mistake on my list! I meant it to be 2 units of heartrenders, not life takers! It won't let me edit my post anymore, so I hope this will suffice

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Someone somewhere asked what base sizes units have - these are now up in the FAQ document from GW

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_base_sizes_en.pdf

Take note that the base size for the Bloodwrack is 60mm instead of the 40mm that the Cauldron kit lists it comes with. 

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8 minutes ago, Overread said:

Someone somewhere asked what base sizes units have - these are now up in the FAQ document from GW

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_base_sizes_en.pdf

Take note that the base size for the Bloodwrack is 60mm instead of the 40mm that the Cauldron kit lists it comes with. 

That is quite irritating, I don't think I'll be switching it over as I already have it on the 40mm base.  Does this also mean a reboxing of the cauldron kit?

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Unlikely  - it could also mean that the FAQ got it wrong; it might be worth sending GW a message to confirm it. That said 40mm to 60mm isn't too bad as you can always put one base atop the other and mean she's standing upon a platform. 

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Boo at 25mm for the infantry characters, I like them on 32s so that they are more obvious amongst a sea of witches.  Ah well, guess I'll see if I can rustle up some spare bases anywhere.

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So,  given that Temple Nest went up after I had just assembled the last of my models, here's what I'm looking at for lists:

Morathi (general)

Bloodwrack Medusa

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron

5 Blood Sisters

5 Blood Sisters

5 Blood Stalkers

5 Blood Stalkers

10 Witch Aelves w/ bucklers

10 Witch Aelves w/ bucklers

10 Witch Aelves w/ bucklers

Temple Nest

OR

Morathi (general)

Bloodwrack Medusa

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron

Hag Queen

Hag Queen

5 Blood Sisters

5 Blood Sisters

5 Blood Stalkers

5 Blood Stalkers

10 Witch Aelves w/ bucklers

10 Witch Aelves w/ bucklers

10 Witch Aelves w/ bucklers

I'm thinking if I get some extra cash I might be able to turn those stalkers into sisters to run 10 model sisters squads in list 2.

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9 hours ago, Overread said:

Someone somewhere asked what base sizes units have - these are now up in the FAQ document from GW

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_base_sizes_en.pdf

Take note that the base size for the Bloodwrack is 60mm instead of the 40mm that the Cauldron kit lists it comes with. 

I appreciate that in the FAQ they say that these are suggested sizes and specifically not mandatory.  While I'm glad I have my Medusa modeled on a 60mm base, I did so only for ascetics, while most I imagine have theirs on a 40mm.  Sadly most of my Hag Queens and my Slaughter Queen have 40mm and 50mm bases (to further distinguish them from hordes of elves and snakes).  While my normal gaming buds will be fine with this, I foresee a future of annoyance in the competitive scene.  I would hate to be that guy accused of modeling for advantage when I just want my minis to look cool. 😕

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An army list I've been mulling over that I will probably use this Saturday at my local GW.  I would most likely switch up some of the spells and artifacts once I get a better look at what is available in the new books.  Leaving the list less than 2000 for an endless spell or two, hence the somewhat magic-heavy slant.  I also do not have Morathi built, otherwise I would include her in this list.
 
Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair
Hag Queen (60)
- Witchbrew
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice
Hag Queen (60)
- Witchbrew
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Slaughter Queen (100)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair

Battalions
Temple Nest (130)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Comments and critiques welcome!  This is basically the 2000pt version of the list I have been using thus far with good success.
Edited by DJMoose

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It should be noted that whilst the base sizes are suggested, it also notes that if you don't use the correct base size you should use the chart to measure to the base that "should" be there. So you can put a model on the wrong base, but you should measure as if it were the "correct" base size.

Which for ease generally means that you want to use the correct base size - though I will admit GW has been messing around with bases for a while now and I really hope that them having made this table means that they'll stop randomly changingbase sizes! 

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23 minutes ago, Overread said:

It should be noted that whilst the base sizes are suggested, it also notes that if you don't use the correct base size you should use the chart to measure to the base that "should" be there. So you can put a model on the wrong base, but you should measure as if it were the "correct" base size.

Which for ease generally means that you want to use the correct base size - though I will admit GW has been messing around with bases for a while now and I really hope that them having made this table means that they'll stop randomly changingbase sizes! 

I will NEVER be measuring from imaginary bases, far as im concerned the correct base size is the one they supply with the box.

Edited by Olincay
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On 6/27/2018 at 2:37 AM, Richelieu said:

Blood Stalkers are quite poor performers competitively.  

You are also short of your battle line requirements.  

Hag Queens are a must for DoK as well.  

I'd consider this list:

Morathi

Hag queen on cauldron

Blood wrack shrine general

Hag queen on foot

Blood sisters x 20

Witches x10

Witches x 30

Heartrenders x 5

1990 points

So many threats in the list your opponent will have a hell of a time with target selection.

 

Yep it's a list I have been using for 2 months now, awesome to play and really a lot of tools to deal with almost anything AoS can throw at you. 

But know I will be taking Spellmirror or Lens of Reflection on General to make that bubble even more powerful. 

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Just bought the book last weekend.  I'm working on finishing my new Deepkin army first but I want to build a strong DoK army.  What are recommendations for first purchases?  Originally I wanted to to buy 3 of the Get started boxes but it looks like that was discontinued.

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I can't quite get a straight answer on the BloodCoven. GW Websites dont' list it (though the newzealand one does) however I've seen several UK stores get stock of it over the last week or two; though neither of the two I've spoken too has found a firm answer as to if its discontinued or what is going on with it. 

 

Regardless the Blood Cauldron is a veyr solid purchase as it gives you most of the heroes that the faction has - actually all of them baring Morathi. So that would be a first port of call; then add in witches (expensive sadly)

Edited by Overread

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I've been thinking quite a bit about Morathi and list design recently and I'd love to hear from some of you what your experiences using her has been like. 

Morathi is just a really weird warscroll (pair).  I'm definitely an efficiency hound, and warscrolls that do a bit of everything aren't super appealing to me. Neither form of Morathi is particularly efficient. Shadow Queen's damage is pretty mediocre for a 480 point model, and she doesn't do a whole lot more than that in that form. In her oracle form she's by far the best spellcaster that we have access to (with the extra range being particularly useful with the increase to unbound range. The problem is that it's hard for her to have enough impact on the game as a pure spellcaster to justify the 480 point investment.

If you throw her command ability into the mix then you're cooking with gas, but unfortunately the opportunity cost of making her the general is tremendous. Hagg'Narr just adds so much with the command trait, and you lose access to that if Morathi is the general. The difference between giving all your Witch Aelves a 5+ and a 6+ is really game changing due to the re-roll prayer. If the metagame ends up being extremely shooting heavy or if Hagg'Narr gets nerfed to require the units to be wholly within range of the general for the command ability, then Khailebron will become a lot more attractive. In that case Morathi becomes more interesting as the general (although Khailebron's command trait is also powerful enough that you might not want to lose it, particularly with Chronomantic Cogs and the reroll-charge command ability making charges from 9" much more doable. 

Then you have to factor in that oracle Morathi is a 6 wound model. Her -1 to hit and Look Out Sir will clearly make a difference here, but she's still very vulnerable to anything that deals wounds without a hit roll. She can't be one shot, of course, but 80 points per wound is still ludicrously high.

So overall Morathi strikes me as a model that isn't really worth her points cost in either form currently. Add in the fact that she might transform against your will (and her transformed version is a LOT worse if wounds are getting doubled) and the picture looks bleak.

All that being said, there is an important lesson that I learned long ago from playing competitive Magic: in a context where you are facing a variety of unknown opponents, flexibility adds a lot of value. In Magic, a card that can do a couple of different relevant things can be overcosted for each of those modes and still be a tournament-caliber card. I think it's worth considering if this is the case with Morathi, particularly given that Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter are so efficient that the army can afford to give up some efficiency elsewhere. 

I can see High Oracle being very useful for matchups where you really need to resolve an early spell like cogs or where Mindrazor will have a huge impact and being able to cast it outside of unbind range will be critical. I think that these situations will be fairly rare but they do exist. 

On the other hand, I can imagine Shadow Queen being extremely powerful in any matchup where objectives are preferentially held by heroes or behemoths. Her ability to stay alive for a couple of turns guaranteed is amazing in these matchups, particularly combined with her speed. She'll also do a lot of work against opponents who bring very tough units (2+ rerollable saves) that Witch Aelves really can't handle. Her gaze ability is also nice in that the mere threat of it will force opponents to maintain tighter unit coherency. 

In the end though this is all theory and I'd really love to supplement it with impressions from folks who have more substantial game experience with her.

 

____________________________

 

Side note: there is a quirk in the wording of her rules that I haven't really seen anyone comment on yet, so I feel that I should bring it up. 

The Iron Heart of Khaine:

"...cannot be healed, but no more than 3 wounds can be allocated to her in any one turn. Any additional wounds and/or mortal wounds allocated to her in the same turn are negated"

Fanatical Faith:

"Roll a dice each time a wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly Daughters of Khaine model. On a 6+ the wound is ignored."

I might be wrong about this, but my impression is that most people read the first rule as basically "Morathi can't suffer more than 3 wounds in a turn." The way the rule is actually worded, however, is that any wounds that are allocated to Morathi beyond the first three are automatically negated. Fanatical Faith kicks in after the wound is allocated. Based on a strict rules-as-written interpretation, then Morathi should only ever be allocated 3 wounds in a single turn regardless of whether those wounds end up being negated by Fanatical Faith (or any other method that occurs after the wound is allocated. 

If GW does in fact intend to have the rule work in the way that most people think, then either Iron Heart of Khaine should be reworded to say "can suffer no more than 3 wounds" or something similar OR Fanatical Faith should be reworded to say "Roll a dice each time a wound or mortal wound would be allocated ... On a 6+ the wound is negated rather than allocated."

If GW actually intends the strict rules-as-written interpretation, then that is a bit of a game changer and makes Morathi (particularly Shadow Queen) MUCH more powerful. 

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On 6/28/2018 at 5:18 AM, Lucentia said:

Boo at 25mm for the infantry characters, I like them on 32s so that they are more obvious amongst a sea of witches.  Ah well, guess I'll see if I can rustle up some spare bases anywhere.

Considering how fragile the Queens are, I would rather they blend in with a sea of Witch Aelves though. 

If they don't ask, you don't tell. The Druchii way. Lol 😈

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8 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

The Iron Heart of Khaine:

"...cannot be healed, but no more than 3 wounds can be allocated to her in any one turn. Any additional wounds and/or mortal wounds allocated to her in the same turn are negated"

Fanatical Faith:

"Roll a dice each time a wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly Daughters of Khaine model. On a 6+ the wound is ignored."

I might be wrong about this, but my impression is that most people read the first rule as basically "Morathi can't suffer more than 3 wounds in a turn." The way the rule is actually worded, however, is that any wounds that are allocated to Morathi beyond the first three are automatically negated. Fanatical Faith kicks in after the wound is allocated. Based on a strict rules-as-written interpretation, then Morathi should only ever be allocated 3 wounds in a single turn regardless of whether those wounds end up being negated by Fanatical Faith (or any other method that occurs after the wound is allocated. 

If GW does in fact intend to have the rule work in the way that most people think, then either Iron Heart of Khaine should be reworded to say "can suffer no more than 3 wounds" or something similar OR Fanatical Faith should be reworded to say "Roll a dice each time a wound or mortal wound would be allocated ... On a 6+ the wound is negated rather than allocated."

If GW actually intends the strict rules-as-written interpretation, then that is a bit of a game changer and makes Morathi (particularly Shadow Queen) MUCH more powerful. 

Sorry, but this interpretation is incorrect. Per the Designer's Commentary for June, 2018:

Q: If a wound or mortal wound is allocated to Morathi and then negated, does it still count as one of the maximum of 3 wounds and/or mortal wounds that can be allocated to her that turn?

A: No. When a wound is negated, it no longer counts as having been allocated to a model.

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Here's a question, anyone got details and photos of how you transport your models? 

For the most part DoK are fairly easy, but the cauldron and Morathi are huge models. Even if you're only taking two caldrons or a cauldron and bloodwreck that's a lot of space taken up with bulky models; esp if one hasn't magnetized the avatar. So I'd be interesting on hearing and seeing what cases and setups work and how much we can all carry. 

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37 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

Sorry, but this interpretation is incorrect. Per the Designer's Commentary for June, 2018:

Q: If a wound or mortal wound is allocated to Morathi and then negated, does it still count as one of the maximum of 3 wounds and/or mortal wounds that can be allocated to her that turn?

A: No. When a wound is negated, it no longer counts as having been allocated to a model.

Ohh good. I hadn't seen the new commentary yet, but I'm glad they cleared that up.

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