Jump to content

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion


Chris Tomlin

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Yeah, that’s a little strange, but was there anything that needed an answer? I didn’t notice anything personally. 

They use faqs to enact balance changes, which was the primary purpose of this faq, to nerf command stacking, and then a few other outliers. They could have thrown a bone to KO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, stratigo said:

They use faqs to enact balance changes, which was the primary purpose of this faq, to nerf command stacking, and then a few other outliers. They could have thrown a bone to KO

With KO bandwagoners falling off the hype train, I think whatever changes they've made last round are going to stick. There are at least 4 more factions trickling out (Moonclan? Darkoath? Malektih Aelves? Tyrion Aelves?) so I think until they've pushed out their new products, the only balances we are going to see are within the current metagame favorites to make the new stuff more appealing.

 

Or...it could be an internal balancing problem. I think they don't want to make the same "mistake" giving KO free reign of their movement shenanigans. If they make Thunderers Battleline, no one would play Arkanauts, if they make Frigates cheaper, something has to get more expensive...etc etc. I've said it before, KO feels like a faction that one subtle change might be the difference between meh and broken.

Edited by Badlander86
Giving GW some benefit of doubt.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They should make ships hit harder and be a little tougher. Lower the points cost on Khemist a little. Reintroduce the "0-1" restrictions for stuff like Thunderers as battleline: "0-1 may be taken as battleline if an Admiral is your general. Any units after the first one taken are not counted as battleline." Hell, do the same with endrinriggers/skywardens if Endrinmaster is your general.

There is so much stuff they could do to help out the faction. Make arkanaut shooting shorter-ranged but harder-hitting. And so on and so forth.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Badlander86 said:

With KO bandwagoners falling off the hype train, I think whatever changes they've made last round are going to stick. There are at least 4 more factions trickling out (Moonclan? Darkoath? Malektih Aelves? Tyrion Aelves?) so I think until they've pushed out their new products, the only balances we are going to see are within the current metagame favorites to make the new stuff more appealing.

 

Or...it could be an internal balancing problem. I think they don't want to make the same "mistake" giving KO free reign of their movement shenanigans. If they make Thunderers Battleline, no one would play Arkanauts, if they make Frigates cheaper, something has to get more expensive...etc etc. I've said it before, KO feels like a faction that one subtle change might be the difference between meh and broken.

internal balance making an army ****** just means the entire army should get discounts.

 

But the idea that you would take thunderers over arkanauts for battleline is a actually a bit crazy as arkanauts strictly doo more damage with their hooks than the thunderers can do. Thunderers would only ever replace taking tax units because you don't usually want to waste the khemist buff on 3 hooks. They'd combo better in frigates, but do less damage overall, even for 20 points less. There's not much point to thunderers except to take a cheaper smaller battleline tax. Arkanauts are a good enough unit to build strategies around.

Thunderers are the way they are because they didn't think through the implications of their special weapons and emergency fixed it, nerfing the unit hard. Into uselessness. Making them battleline with no other changes would just make them a 300 point tax as opposed to a 360 point tax it you are trying to minimize battleline for, say, riggers. But company can be massed and love the khemist buff to be a very dangerous unit for a cost, while thunderers remain fairly bad at any size.

 

Edited by stratigo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, stratigo said:

internal balance making an army ****** just means the entire army should get discounts.

 

But the idea that you would take thunderers over arkanauts for battleline is a actually a bit crazy as arkanauts strictly doo more damage with their hooks than the thunderers can do. Thunderers would only ever replace taking tax units because you don't usually want to waste the khemist buff on 3 hooks. They'd combo better in frigates, but do less damage overall, even for 20 points less. There's not much point to thunderers except to take a cheaper smaller battleline tax. Arkanauts are a good enough unit to build strategies around.

Thunderers are the way they are because they didn't think through the implications of their special weapons and emergency fixed it, nerfing the unit hard. Into uselessness. Making them battleline with no other changes would just make them a 300 point tax as opposed to a 360 point tax it you are trying to minimize battleline for, say, riggers. But company can be massed and love the khemist buff to be a very dangerous unit for a cost, while thunderers remain fairly bad at any size.

 

I dunno, I would rather hit on 3+ with 35 shots with a 10 man squad of Thunderers(with a Khemist buff from 18") vs Arkanauts and their painful 4+ to Hit. The 4+ Save feels better to. I see the combos they want us to play: Use the Frigates to screen our Thunderers, if they are charged drop the mine on a 4+ (which if needs to be reliable should be a 3+ but hey, wishful thinking) which forces the charging unit to go into combat last, retreat with the Thunderers and pump them full of lead next turn. The synergies are there but feels like something is missing.

My luck with the Arkanauts has been atrocious so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what is missing is damage.

 

The math just favors company at larger numbers, and at smaller numbers it just doesn't matter.

 

Also company get a plus one to hit against several targets.

 

Note that this is specifically company with max light skyhooks, but GW has made the light skyhooks so overwhelmingly better than any other weapon they can get so as to not even be close to comparable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

what is missing is damage.

 

The math just favors company at larger numbers, and at smaller numbers it just doesn't matter.

 

Also company get a plus one to hit against several targets.

 

Note that this is specifically company with max light skyhooks, but GW has made the light skyhooks so overwhelmingly better than any other weapon they can get so as to not even be close to comparable.

There is that. Something to note is as compared to a lot of factions,KO doesn't really have much in the way of situational Mortal Wounds. Like Executions from Dark Coven, Mortals Wounds when hitting on 6+. Maybe Give the Thunderers an ability called Entrenched which if they didn't move (excluding Disembarking), during the Shooting Phase, Hit Rolls of 6 are Mortal Wounds BUT they cannot use the "Keep Your Distance" so it plays into the Risk/Reward system...which is sorely lacking in other factions. By which I mean those factions are only rewarded with abilities that pose little to no risks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imho, the problem is about the faction itself. I still have hope to see a KO 2.0 battletome with new tricks to do. 

An "open-topped" rule for our ships can help our thunderers to be a better than arkanauts, and giving them the "battleline if..." give us a lot more option than just buffing units or decreasing points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah according to the most reliable rumor guy it doesn't sound like any KO stuff this year or next. Get ready to be bad for a long time and all we can do is let GW know we're not satisfied with out current army and where its at. Waiting until 2020 to get a rethink on us seems insane. I can't wait that long. We are a from the ground up AoS army why are we made to be so bad? We should be one of the star armies of the game not the older ones. 

Edited by Barkanaut
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/23/2018 at 10:10 PM, stratigo said:

Oh hey, ko are literally the only battle tome that didn’t get a change in the recent faq

*Monty Python and the Holy Grail’s “you make me sad” gif*  That’s directed at GW of course, not your good self. :D

Quick question, brainstorming ideas; you know the standard six footnotes?  Which of the named skyports would you allocate each one to from a fluff perspective?  Some seem straight forward: Barak Zilfin should probably get “without our ships we are naught” whilst Barak Thyrng should probably get “there’s no trading with some people”, but what about the others?

Edited by Arkanaut Admiral
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say:

Barak-Urbaz -  Surrender is Rarely Profitable

Barak-Zon - There's No Reward Without Risk

Barak-Thryng - There's No Trading With Some People

Barak-Nar - Today's Foes Are Tomorrow's Customers

Barak-Zilfin - Without Our Ships We Are Naught

Barak-Mhornar - These Are Just Guidelines

 

 

 

Edited by Myr
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Myr said:

I would say:

Barak-Urbaz -  Surrender is Rarely Profitable

Barak-Zon - There's No Reward Without Risk

Barak-Thryng - There's No Trading With Some People

Barak-Nar - Today's Foes Are Tomorrow's Customers

Barak-Zilfin - Without Our Ships We Are Naught

Barak-Mhornar - These Are Just Guidelines

 

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking.  Thank you. :)

I ask because I’m working on the assumption that one way to make custom skyports more viable is to restrict the named ones to fixed footnotes.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Exactly what I was thinking.  Thank you. :)

I ask because I’m working on the assumption that one way to make custom skyports more viable is to restrict the named ones to fixed footnotes.  

So make worse options seem better by making the 3 good (and 3 poor)  options worse?   seems a bit odd.

Why not give custom ports option of 2 footnotes or 2 something else, the named ports already get a named footnote PLUS a generic one anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, stato said:

So make worse options seem better by making the 3 good (and 3 poor)  options worse?   seems a bit odd.

Why not give custom ports option of 2 footnotes or 2 something else, the named ports already get a named footnote PLUS a generic one anyway.

I should have said that I do think that the footnotes need tweaking anyway.  At present I would never bother taking anything else besides Trading if I’m honest.  It should be ok, seeing as though they’re one use only abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys, how effective is kiting in real tabletop? In theory, because we need to hit hard from a distance, we should be maxing out of threat distance. A friend of mine who is a lot more knowledgeable then me in terms of the game has been observing me play Zilfin and thinks that as it stands, its not really the best Allegiance ability to work with. He recommends Urbaz based on his reading of the ability and after I explained how hard KO as a faction leans on the Aether-Khemist. He laid it out to me as such where if I insist on taking Endringgers, they need to be able to "kite" and after I explained the limitations of the Grapple Launchers now, he stated the obvious choice is to use the Ironclad or any boat of choice with a Wounds characteristic of 10 as an "Anchor".

 

Basically, its a hit and run list with the Aether Khemists handing out buffs to as many things as possible. On T1, look for the "soft spot" in an enemy line keeping in mind where you want to put your Ironclad as an "anchor", and use Fleetmaster as necessary. Disembark your Endringgers 3 inches forward, us 1 Aether Khemist to buff the Rivet Guns Profile and Drill Cannon Profile.  Then in the Movement Phase, move your Endriggers up their maximum distance (+3 inches if you deployed them forward) and then move your Ironclad  (the Khemist handing out the first buff should be embarked into the Ironclad after the  movement phase) into a position within 24" and preferably behind a terrain feature that won't be easy form non-flying armies to get to. Then in the shooting phase you get 24 shots with the Rivet Guns and 6 shots with the Drill Cannon. Ironclad can also fire with its Great Sky Cannon and Torpedoes, after giving itself "Make Every Shot count". If the round of shooting goes well, you can choose to grapple towards the enemy if the right kind of terrain or model allows, or grapple at the Ironclad to get out of dodge and get another round of buffs from the Aether-Khemists. Seems very logical and fun but placement of models and table size do matter. It allows the Riggers/Skywardens to yo-yo safely in and out of enemy firing range to get buffs  where required. The only problem is with enemy summoning and other teleportation, they might cause a problem for the Grapple Launcher's new rule about 3" of enemy models and the "Direct Straight Line"

 

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Skyport: Barak-Urbaz 

Additional Footnote: There's No Trading With Some People

LEADERS

Aether-Khemist (160) - General - Command Trait : Fleetmaster - Artefact : Aethershock Earbuster

Aether-Khemist (160) - Artefact : Aethersight Loupe

UNITS

10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Light Skyhooks

10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Light Skyhooks

10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Skypikes

12 x Endrinriggers (480) - 3 x Drill Cannons - 3 x Grapnel Launchers

9 x Endrinriggers (360) - 3 x Grapnel Launchers

WAR MACHINES

Arkanaut Ironclad (420) - Main Gun : Great Sky Cannon - Great Endrinworks : Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with kiting is that most AoS armies are quite fast. There’s no way to really ‘get away’ from a nurgle or Khorne or sylvaneth army usually. If you are within 24 inches, you are in their threat range, and several armies can get you from anywhere on the board. You need bubble wrap, which KO do not get natively. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, stratigo said:

The problem with kiting is that most AoS armies are quite fast. There’s no way to really ‘get away’ from a nurgle or Khorne or sylvaneth army usually. If you are within 24 inches, you are in their threat range, and several armies can get you from anywhere on the board. You need bubble wrap, which KO do not get natively. 

There has to some match ups that favor Kiting. Khorne is going to lose at least half of their army after a solid round of shooting. Orruks and Grots would potentially break on Battleshock. If you roll 6s on the Drill Cannons wounds, you can spread D3 Mortal Wounds around, hopefully killing Heroes or damaging to the point of your opponent having to rethink their opening moves. Shock and awe style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drill cannons are strictly worse than normal cannons. Remember they nerfed the 3 damage to d3 ages ago.

 

And, yeah, they're armies that can be slow. But.... not really in a competitive sense. Look at every list at, say, Throne of Skulls. In the top ten pretty much all those armies were blisteringly fast except the legion of azgorh, and the legion is a super shooter army like foot based KO (except they have more meat, some magic, and mortal wound output). And even then, fast was relative.

 

Anyone playing a good army is playing an army that has options to get to you ASAP, or doesn't care about getting to you because the army's power is in its magic or shooting phase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/24/2018 at 10:55 PM, MyLonelyDeer said:

IT was in malign portens book as far as I remember

Also in the rumor mill for upcoming ShadeSpire stuff:

"From bols:
Shadepire is getting some new cards and a third game board tile this week. We already have a decent set of warbands but insiders say to look for a refresh of the game in late Q3-early Q4. It’s a but fuzzy if this is a Shadespire 2, a new 2018 starter box, or just a new release wave of warbands. GWis said to be adding a new 4-6 warbands to the blighted city. These names have been bandied about:


Stormcast Eternals (the new ones)
Nurgle Mortals
Kharadron Overlords
Nighthaunts
Disciples of Tzeentch
Aelves (unknown sub-faction)"

 

Edited by Baron Klatz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A friend of mine wants to start KO... he just loves models without having playing the game yet.

Honestly, is there something to do with this faction ? Not in a competitiv way but simply not being outmatch everytime.

We have Ironjawz, Khorne, Stormcast, Sylvaneth, Nighthaunt players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

A friend of mine wants to start KO... he just loves models without having playing the game yet.

Honestly, is there something to do with this faction ? Not in a competitiv way but simply not being outmatch everytime.

We have Ironjawz, Khorne, Stormcast, Sylvaneth, Nighthaunt players.

 

I would ask your friend to really consider what he wants out of the game/hobby. Because at the moment, game wise KO isn't in a good place and hobby-wise, while the KO models lines are among some of the best stuff in the AoS range, it also seems to be among the pricier models in terms of real world money.

He isn't going to get trounced but right now its mainly 70/30 chances because of how much focus Magic has in this edition along with some major changes to the Kharadron Overlords rules to make the faction less...potent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...