AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Lossen]

they changed the warscroll for thunderes on the app. now they have the old one? is this correct now?

[stato]

7 minutes ago, Lossen said:

they changed the warscroll for thunderes on the app. now they have the old one? is this correct now?

Its still a half mix of old and new. 

The FAQ states downloadable one on GW website is correct, which is currently the GHB2017 one. Until that changes whatever is on the App of Scrollbuilder is not valid.

[stratigo]

2 hours ago, DanielFM said:

That would be something, yet IMHO there should be more incentives to have the models on the table: getting out only for scoring could have them on the case until the last turn.

Why?

 

No really, why?

 

It is not hard killing a ship. And not hard killing a ship while surrounding it and thus killing everyone inside.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

41 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Why?

 

No really, why?

 

It is not hard killing a ship. And not hard killing a ship while surrounding it and thus killing everyone inside.

Tell me about it.

All of the ships need a 3+ save.  Because as it stands, anything anyone throws at them sticks.  Sure there’s ways to heal them but that requires a bit of luck to stay ahead of the damage.  

The warships should be incredibly durable, because they’re, well, warships.  Great big armour plated sturdily built things.  But right now, as it stands, an Ironclad, our toughest ship, is about as tough as a mid sized unit of blood warriors.  And that is poor.

Give them all a 3+ save and make their tireless endrinrigger ability automatic.  Now they’d be on par with those super though units like...well, Dracoths always seem invincible to me. 

Our lists are only ever going to have a few ships in them at most.  So they absolutely have to be able to survive more than one turn of damage.

[Gecktron]

11 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Tell me about it.

All of the ships need a 3+ save.  Because as it stands, anything anyone throws at them sticks.  Sure there’s ways to heal them but that requires a bit of luck to stay ahead of the damage.  

The warships should be incredibly durable, because they’re, well, warships.  Great big armour plated sturdily built things.  But right now, as it stands, an Ironclad, our toughest ship, is about as tough as a mid sized unit of blood warriors.  And that is poor.

Give them all a 3+ save and make their tireless endrinrigger ability automatic.  Now they’d be on par with those super though units like...well, Dracoths always seem invincible to me. 

Our lists are only ever going to have a few ships in them at most.  So they absolutely have to be able to survive more than one turn of damage.

3+ for all is a bit much in my opinion. Id prefer it to get progressively better like, 5+ for Gunhaulers, 4+ for Frigats and 3+ for Ironclads. 

So they can keep the differences between the different ships. Also, it would feel strange to give the open-topped gun hauler a 3+ save. 

[Arkanaut Admiral]

9 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

3+ for all is a bit much in my opinion. Id prefer it to get progressively better like, 5+ for Gunhaulers, 4+ for Frigats and 3+ for Ironclads. 

So they can keep the differences between the different ships. Also, it would feel strange to give the open-topped gun hauler a 3+ save. 

Good point.  My reasoning was the number of wounds they have would differate them.  An ironclad having twice as many as a gunhauler for example.  

Plus I think of saves in abstract terms.  Like, an Ironclad could have an 3+ save because it’s durable and shrugs off everything that hits it, whilst a gunhauler has a 3+ save because it’s really fast and manoeuvrable. 

I could settle for the Ironclad having a 3+ save and the others having a 4+ save though.

[stratigo]

10 arkanauts in a frigate shooting out would be really neat. 20 arkanauts in an ironclad shooting out might be too strong in the hypothetical future where GW fixes how ****** summoning is at the ironclad's point cost.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

48 minutes ago, stratigo said:

10 arkanauts in a frigate shooting out would be really neat. 20 arkanauts in an ironclad shooting out might be too strong in the hypothetical future where GW fixes how ****** summoning is at the ironclad's point cost.

I intend to find out the answer to this tomorrow.

[nine7six]

On 7/4/2018 at 1:54 PM, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Good point.  My reasoning was the number of wounds they have would differate them.  An ironclad having twice as many as a gunhauler for example.  

Plus I think of saves in abstract terms.  Like, an Ironclad could have an 3+ save because it’s durable and shrugs off everything that hits it, whilst a gunhauler has a 3+ save because it’s really fast and manoeuvrable. 

I could settle for the Ironclad having a 3+ save and the others having a 4+ save though.

that increase in save is what i've wanted since the beginning, frigate is useless at 5+, so much has -1 rend that you hardly make any saves lol.

[Lord Veshnakar]

I agree on the increase in saves to the ships. I am also in favor of the save for Arkanaut Companies going up to 4+ and Thunderers going to 3+.  It doesn't make sense that the Arkanauts have the same save as a naked Fyreslayer. And the thunderers have some seriously bulky plate on for just having a 4+.  Just my humble opinion though.

[stratigo]

The save for company and thunderers is fine. If anything, the save for fyrslayers is too much XD. But, like, magical plate armor clad dudes only get a 4 up. 3 up is reserved for things very large and bulky from what I can see, which I would hope includes the ironclad in the future.

[Kramer]

Hi floaty people, 

I recently got a bunch of KO* a lot is already build and totals 1400 points. With the new rules I’m looking at the battalions for one to build into but not one really got me excited. 

Does anybody use battalions? What’s your go to? 

*someone is selling a lot of KO so this is a good time to expand. Currently have: 1 admiral, 1 navigator, 2 khemist, 1 frigate, 1 gunhauler, 20 arkhanauts, 3 skywardens + 3 skywardens/endrinriggers(unbuild)

[Beliman]

On 7/7/2018 at 10:54 AM, Kramer said:

Hi floaty people, 

I recently got a bunch of KO* a lot is already build and totals 1400 points. With the new rules I’m looking at the battalions for one to build into but not one really got me excited. 

Does anybody use battalions? What’s your go to? 

*someone is selling a lot of KO so this is a good time to expand. Currently have: 1 admiral, 1 navigator, 2 khemist, 1 frigate, 1 gunhauler, 20 arkhanauts, 3 skywardens + 3 skywardens/endrinriggers(unbuild)

I try to avoid them in any competitive match. They are really expensive  and you aim to 1500-2000 matches at least to be playable.

But with 2.0 and some chill evenings (free time at last!!), I use some of them (just for the lols).

Iron Sky Command-Create an indestructible hero with -2 hit (Look out sir +Gryph-feather Charm) and 5+ to bounce wounds. Main problem is that only the Khemists is important to protect, and it's still better to take two khemists than all the reqs. Endrinmaster with Ghyrstrike for 3A(or 4 with grudgebearer) 2+2+ -1R 3D (charged harness) is really fun  but +4save +5bounce and -1Look out sir is not enough (at least we can move him with our 4+/5+ save ships!!!). 

Iron Sky Squadron-Eazy reqs. I never played in 2.0, but I used it in 1.0. The main problem with this battalion is that it uses frigates and buff their dmg in their first turn (+1atk). In other words, you are going for an alpha strike with frigates!! I used it in the past until I played with our Clown Car strategy and I never tryied this battalion again. Maybe in 2.0 with frigates costing less and +1 artifact...?

Grundstock Excort wing-Still painting Gunhaulers. It seems that it can be good with 2.0 (we still have a devastating shooting-phase after all). But you can only use it in 2000 points games (1300 points with battlelines and without General). Boring +1hit, but at least is usefull.

Aetherstrike Force-Never played. I don't use SCE.

Grand Armada- Never played. I don't have enough models btw (3190 points min...).

Edited July 8, 2018 by Beliman
grammar

[Just_Primed]

Hello chums! Thought you folks  might enjoy a pic of my recently complete battleforce box there's something fishy about dem stunties... in other news, shame about the Lord Ordinators command ability change. Anyone try out allied gryph Hounds in 2.0 yet as well?

[Gecktron]

46 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Iron Sky Squadron-Eazy reqs. I never played in 2.0, but I used it in 1.0. The main problem with this battalion is that it uses frigates and buff their dmg in their first turn (+1atk). In other words, you are going for an alpha strike with frigates!! I used it in the past until I played with our Clown Car strategy and I never tryied this battalion again. Maybe in 2.0 with frigates costing less and +1 artifact...?

Grundstock Excort wing-Still painting Gunhaulers. It seems that it can be good with 2.0 (we still have a devastating shooting-phase after all). But you can only use it in 2000 points games (1300 points with battlelines and without General). Boring +1hit, but at least is usefull.

Agree with this. 

Iron Sky Squadron is easy to include but difficult to play. The two main problems I have with this battalion are: its only in turn one, which could be a real problem when you are forced to go first (only 18" range on the cannons) and second, its +1 attack for a pretty unreliable weapon. Only hitting on 4+ makes this a gamble. 

I had one successful game using this battalion. I was going second against a fangmora eels heavy Idoneth Deepkin army. I buffed my frigates with the Lord-Ordinator and took advantage of the re-roll 1s to-hit/to-wound from Barak-Zilfin. 
My first shooting phase was pretty devastating but afterwards I was limited to basic arkanauts and frigates.

 

In regards to the Grundstock Escort Wing: Thats my current project for AoS 2.0. Im planning on getting a third gunhauler and try to make this battalion work in a Barak-Mhonar force. 

[Badlander86]

The July update it out, and the Thunderer's Mortar is still 36". Is this safe to confirm?

[stratigo]

My main problem with the iron sky squadron is that it's 130 points. That's a company. Is, if you minmax, 4 shots on turn 1 before than three skyhooks every turn of the game? I don't think to, the math just doesn't seem to work out considering how weak your army is going to be to try and fit in 4 frigates.

[Gecktron]

5 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

The July update it out, and the Thunderer's Mortar is still 36". Is this safe to confirm?

No. The Kharadron FAQ states that the Thunderers warscroll on the GW website is the only legal one and that scroll has Mortars at 12".

[Arkanaut Admiral]

3 hours ago, stratigo said:

My main problem with the iron sky squadron is that it's 130 points. That's a company. Is, if you minmax, 4 shots on turn 1 before than three skyhooks every turn of the game? I don't think to, the math just doesn't seem to work out considering how weak your army is going to be to try and fit in 4 frigates.

That’s why our battalions only work if they’re cheap.  And since the ironsky squadron’s  main ability is one turn only it should be really cheap.  The original 80pts was just right.  With that price and the current costs, you could have a minimum sized squadron for 800pts.

With that price, the ships saves bumped up to 4+, and this ability to fight from the decks I’m currently working on, then it would be worth it.  Possibly.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Arkanaut Admiral

[greengiant]

On 7/6/2018 at 8:32 AM, nine7six said:

was the number of wounds they have would differate them.  An ironclad having twice as many as a gunhauler for example.  

Plus I think of saves in abstract terms.  Like, an Ironclad could have an 3+ save because it’s durable and shrugs off everything that hits it, whilst a gunhauler has a 3+ save because it’s really fast and manoeuvrable. 

I could settle for the Ironclad having a 3+ save and the others having a 4+ save though

I have been pondering what would happen if all our ships had a 4+ save. Then, we adjust the "Batten the Hatches" rule to be +1 to save, instead of re-rolling 1s. This would really be useful and fluffy. 

[Arkanaut Admiral]

2 hours ago, greengiant said:

I have been pondering what would happen if all our ships had a 4+ save. Then, we adjust the "Batten the Hatches" rule to be +1 to save, instead of re-rolling 1s. This would really be useful and fluffy. 

I think you’re on to something there!  I too had the idea of removing all of the ships ‘unique’ orders from their respective war-scrolls (batten the hatches, all hands to the guns and all ahead full) and instead add them to a list that they can all use, in a similar manner to IG orders.  Perhaps extended out to a full list of six orders?

Also, I got to test out my idea for using the garrison rules for our ships and guys...it works!  Awesomely if I do say so too!

It was a 2k game, Barak Mhornar against Ironjawz.  I was given the first turn, and right away the differences were noticeable.  My navigator actually got to grant his aetheric navigation and read the winds abilities to all the ships  despite being embarked.  Combined with prosecute all wars with haste, the flotilla managed to move an average of 16” that turn whilst still retaining the ability to shoot!  What’s more, careful deployment meant that every unit in the flotilla benefited from the admiral’s opportunistic privateer command trait.  Shooting lots of sky hooks out of the ships was great.  And the navigator dispelled a spell from the safety of the ship too.

Now unfortunately I still lost, mostly on objectives. But I blame myself for that.  Also, I lost priority and thus got jumped before I could repair any of the ships or truly unleash all my firepower.  However, instead of simply being massacred as what happened before, my embarked troops and characters got to fight back and managed to inflict serious casualties on the orruks. So in terms of kill points we were roughly equal.

Some points of note: we decided to continue using the current rules for actually embarking and disembarking, because it seemed unfair to allow the survivors of a wrecked ship to just jump 6” out of it to safety.  However, voluntary disembarking was now done in the movement phase with it counting as the units move, like 40k.  This really speeds the army up.

Oh, and embarked units still need to take battleshock tests.  I actually lost a good few Duardin to this.  We kept it in the interests of fairness.

So long story short, this idea helps us out a lot, but on it’s own it’s still not enough.  You still need sound tactics and a bit of luck too.

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Arkanaut Admiral

[WatcherintheWater]

Trying to brainstorm ways to get more scoring options for the "Places of Arcane Power" battleplan. Seems like that one puts us in a real tough spot. Here are the choices I see:

• Take a battalion
• Ally in Stormcast Wizards
• Always Take What You Are Owed Amendment (Build your own Skyport or Urbaz)

I'm playing a small 3-game tournament on Saturday and that is one of the scenarios. I was planning on running a 2 frigate Zlifin list since it's what I am used to running, but now I think I might need to switch to Urbaz or find room for a Knight Incantor, but honestly, I wonder if that's even worth it. It's too bad boats with Great Endrinworks can't score objectives (I don't think they can at least).

[Kramer]

On 7/9/2018 at 8:50 PM, WatcherintheWater said:

It's too bad boats with Great Endrinworks can't score objectives (I don't think they can at least).

Yeah, it states HERO. Shame that they didn't allow units with artefacts.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I’m going to try and test out the garrison ship rules again as soon as possible.  If anyone has any ideas or suggestions I would love to hear them.  

Also, no one ever bothers making their own skyport right?  Because the named ones are superior in every way yes?  Do you think the key to fixing that (assuming it needs fixed) would be to give the named skyports fixed footnotes?  They would still get their own unique footnote of course.  This means you chose either fixed abilities with extras or go fully customisable.  What do you think?

Which skyport would get which footnote?  Obviously Barak-Zilfin get Without Our Ships, and Barak-Thyrng can get There’s No Trading, and Barak Mhornar can get Guidelines.  What about the other three?

[Gheistvor]

Has GW ever talked about or mentioned the Gunhaulers 'Sky cannon' and the Frigates 'Heavy sky cannon' being the exact same gun? I can get past all the nerfs and changes but this just looks like an error they've yet to correct.

Hell even the ironclads great sky cannon is the exact same except having 6" more range, be nice to have 1 extra rend or better to hit chance.

Just had a quick look, the skyhooks seem even worse off, the Arkanauts 'light skyhook' is the exact same as the Ironclads 'great skyhook', and the Frigates 'heavy skyhook' is the exact same but with less range! Just hate the idea of paying points for a boat when its big forecastle main gun does the exact same thing as a single infantry dude with a little handheld gun, or is actually worse in the Frigates case.

New to this community so im sure this has been brought up before, it just really grinds my aether-gears. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Gheistvor