AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[DanielFM]

31 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Liberators make decent “bait” and also “shells” as well. Everyone knows they suck and thus no one is afraid of them. The goal is to put something in range of them to punish anyone who decides to kill them for easy points. They are basically a “combo” unit imo. I agree they are weak and overpriced for what they do, but I also feel that they serve a purpose in allowing you to protect more important units and to prevent direct charges. We could certainly talk about whether sequitors do it better, but I’m not arguing that libs are better at anything, just simply that they do have a good battlefield role other than sitting on an objective.

That's sounds awfully a lot like "they are good at dying" ? 

Why not invest just a bit more to get a unit which can do the same role but better? You don't really have a role (at least in Matched) if you are not the best at it.

[Mark Williams]

11 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

That's sounds awfully a lot like "they are good at dying" ? 

That's exactly what I'm saying.

But I'm also saying that you can use everyone's knowledge of that against them by setting up "traps", and also to take the initial, inevitable charges that are going to hit you no matter what you do. If you didn't have to take Battleline at all, then sure. But if you have to take them anyway, and you want to get some extra points for something else in your list (ie sequitors or judicators cost more), then you CAN give them a purpose other than pure dead weight. I'm offering people a use for them other than just sitting off to the side somewhere doing nothing and hoping not to draw attention.

[Shinzra]

Would fulminators be best in squads of 2 or 1 big unit.

Looking at running 3 squads of 2

 

[Grailstorm]

3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I agree with this. I mean theres only two things that Liberators do, be a battleline tax and slightly tank objectives.

Liberators are incredible. If you combined all of their stats into one model, it would be better than most of our heroes. The leader can do 6 wounds, like a hero, and his unit give him 10 wounds and some backup attacks. They're great in hit squads of 5, and brutal in hordes.

[Luke.w]

13 minutes ago, Shinzra said:

Would fulminators be best in squads of 2 or 1 big unit.

Looking at running 3 squads of 2

 

If you are running a heraldor (who is better than ever) then a larger unit works well to take good advantage kf his buff. With 6 though, I would probably run an unit of 4 and an unit of 2 for more flexibility.

[Freejack02]

27 minutes ago, Grailstorm said:

Liberators are incredible. If you combined all of their stats into one model, it would be better than most of our heroes. The leader can do 6 wounds, like a hero, and his unit give him 10 wounds and some backup attacks. They're great in hit squads of 5, and brutal in hordes.

"Combining all their stats into one model" is irrelevant though, as that isn't how units should be evaluated. Instead you have to account for slow speed, so-so hitting power, and x number of massive 40mm bases trying to squeeze into combat together. While they might seem "brutal in hordes" on paper, in practice they are very unwieldy.  Liberators pale spectacularly to Sequitors in nearly every way (which should probably be the new name of the thread at this point). 

[Requete]

19 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Nope. They are objectively worse than Evocators.

GW messed this time, hard. Ideal world, they would lower their points in a FAQ/GHB. If we get unlucky, they will up Evocators and leave us with not one but two overpriced units ?

If they improved the save on the older Paladins to 3+, they would be amazing.

Or if they just gave them the Redeemer keyword....

[AwareTheLegend]

2 hours ago, Requete said:

If they improved the save on the older Paladins to 3+, they would be amazing.

Or if they just gave them the Redeemer keyword....

Redeemer keyword would be crazy with Evocator backup.  I could agree that a 3+ would make sense in the context of Evocators at 200 points

[THUNDERHAMMER]

If I take Soulbright as my general , I have to take the hammer of sigmar traits. So do the artifacts and command trait fizzle?

[mystycalchemy]

4 hours ago, Requete said:

If they improved the save on the older Paladins to 3+, they would be amazing.

Or if they just gave them the Redeemer keyword....

Fluffwise, the Redeemer is never going to Paladins. The Redeemer keyword is denoting the conclave, which the Paladins are already part of, well, the Paladin conclave. 

[Deluxe]

1 hour ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

If I take Soulbright as my general , I have to take the hammer of sigmar traits. So do the artifacts and command trait fizzle?

From what I've gathered, it wouldn't be ideal to make Astreia  your general since you'll be completely skipping out on a Command Trait (because she's a named character) and  pigeonholed into running a Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost. Running a Stormhost forces you to use their Relic/Traits, though, which makes me a bit sad how inflexible they are at the moment.

However, I do plan on buying her when she's released this weekend but I plan on running her as a Lord Arcanum on Dracoline instead so I can get Staunch Defender on her at the very least.

[THUNDERHAMMER]

2 minutes ago, Deluxe said:

From what I've gathered, it wouldn't be ideal to make Astreia  your general since you'll be completely skipping out on a Command Trait (because she's a named character) and  pigeonholed into running a Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost. Running a Stormhost forces you to use their Relic/Traits, though, which makes me a bit sad how inflexible they are at the moment.

However, I do plan on buying her when she's released this weekend but I plan on running her as a Lord Arcanum on Dracoline instead so I can get Staunch Defender on her at the very least.

I dont mind the LAoGC but Im taking Hammers of Sigmar as it is, so I thought it be cool to have a named character and 20 pts cheaper no less. I really Like the command trait they share for the sacrosaint units

[Deluxe]

1 minute ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

I dont mind the LAoGC but Im taking Hammers of Sigmar as it is, so I thought it be cool to have a named character and 20 pts cheaper no less. I really Like the command trait they share for the sacrosaint units

That's true, I completely forgot about her slight points discount. Astreia and LAoCG both have great command abilities, I might regret not having access to them, although that might be overkill since I already have a Cleansing Phalanx in my list.  Too many options in this edition for SE, the struggle is real.

[DanielFM]

3 hours ago, AwareTheLegend said:

Redeemer keyword would be crazy with Evocator backup.  I could agree that a 3+ would make sense in the context of Evocators at 200 points

Yeah, 3+ save would have fixed them. Come on, they move 4 and get nothing in return!

But the time for that went away. It sounds quite unlikely that GW would change them until the next battletome (in 1,5-2 years?). 

[Rusted Weapons]

Newb question, is there any consenus/ruling on painting SCE Hallowed Knights scheme but saying its a Hammers of Sigmar army? And am I readings correctly - enemy kills a unit of liberators and on a 5+ this unit just comes back on the board anywhere else 9" away!? please let this be true. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by carrigher82

[azmarus]

23 minutes ago, carrigher82 said:

enemy kills a unit of liberators and on a 5+ this unit just comes back on the board anywhere else 9" awa

but u need spend a command point

Edited July 18, 2018 by azmarus

[Rusted Weapons]

So heres my thoughts on a list. I guess its pretty controversial in that it ignores all new kits and magic entirely.

 

General  - LCelestant on Dracoth

L Relictor

L Castellant

 

Liberators x 30

Liberators x 10

Liberators x 10

Retributors x 10

Retributors x5

 

2000

Or same as above with a L Veritant

2 x5 Liberators instead of 2 x10

x9 Prosecutors instead of extra x5 retributors.

 

This is only hypothetical so please tear this to shreds for me and tell me why it wont work before I start buying.

[Immersturm]

After an overdose of Balthasar Gelt in Warhammer TW2, I got inspired to pick up AoS again, SCE in particular.

I picked up a Soul Wars box with two sets of SCE. This way I can use 15 Sequitors, 5 Evocators, one Lord Arcanum on Gryph, one Lord Incantor, 6 Castigators, 2 Ballistas. In addition I got my old bow Judis up and running (two units of 5) and bought an Exorcist and Ordinator. With a few tweaks and some minor future additions (Evocatord on mounts, the Incantor from the magazine, Lord Arcanums on the two new mounts) I should be able to run the Sacrosanct battalions just for the heck of it.

What can I do with this setup? I was thinking Hammers of Sigmar because of the two named Lord Arcanums. Any more suggestions? I've been out of the picture for long enough to not know what the blazes is going on in AoS2

Edited July 18, 2018 by Immersturm

[Wars]

3 hours ago, carrigher82 said:

Newb question, is there any consenus/ruling on painting SCE Hallowed Knights scheme but saying its a Hammers of Sigmar army? And am I readings correctly - enemy kills a unit of liberators and on a 5+ this unit just comes back on the board anywhere else 9" away!? please let this be true. 

As far as "official" stances on painting SCE, GW had this to say (emphasis mine): 

Quote

 

While these rules are designed to represent the unique tactics of the most iconic groupings of Stormcast Eternals, you can use them however you’ve painted your models – just choose the rules that you think best represent how YOUR army fights.

By the same credit, these rules aren’t compulsory – if you’d rather leave yourself the flexibility of not fighting for a specific Stormhost, you can do so!

 

Otherwise the general consensus appears to be that as long as you are clear with your opponent about  what  rules you are using, you can paint them however you want. The only possible exception may be if tournament rules state otherwise (but that will be up to the individual tournament).

In my opinion, paint them however you want. You are going to spend many hours painting, so pick a scheme you like. 

And re the Hammers of Sigmar command ability - yes. However, remember it only applies to units with the "Redeemer" tag (@AdamR is right!) and you'll need to spend a command point to activate it. As awesome as it sounds, if luck is against you then you've wasted a command point. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Wars

[AdamR]

3 minutes ago, Wars said:

However, remember it only applies to units with the "Redeemer" tag (so in your example, not Liberators) and you'll need to spend a command point to activate it. As awesome as it sounds, if luck is against you then you've wasted a command point. 

Liberators ARE Redeemers - up until the introduction of Sequitors, they were the only Redeemers!

[Aggesut]

21 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Has to be an oversight in the Lore of Invigoration (opinion not fact that is). 

Either way it doesn't matter.  Even if you wanted to try to RAW your way into getting more spells, the rules on the warscroll ("cannot attempt to cast any spells other than Empower") override the general rules for selecting battletome lore spells.  You *might* be able to argue that they can know one of these spells, but they can't ever cast it.

I would always argue that RAW supersedes any additional information and that it’s an obvious oversight, and the intention was never to con way into additional spells. My point is that they’ve not really thought it through, and it’s an opening for - let’s call them “interesting” - players who are keen on bending the rules any which way can help them, which is really unfortunate. My assumption is that this is not the only oversight, and with Nighthaunt and SC having so many new interesting ways of smashing face, it’s something to keep an eye out for.

[AwareTheLegend]

13 minutes ago, Aggesut said:

I would always argue that RAW supersedes any additional information and that it’s an obvious oversight, and the intention was never to con way into additional spells. My point is that they’ve not really thought it through, and it’s an opening for - let’s call them “interesting” - players who are keen on bending the rules any which way can help them, which is really unfortunate. My assumption is that this is not the only oversight, and with Nighthaunt and SC having so many new interesting ways of smashing face, it’s something to keep an eye out for.

The rules specifically state the warscrolls override anything else. Everyone needs to understand this because it keeps coming up.

With that being said the stating that Evocators can't use these spells is redundant in the battletome but it does cause needless confusion.

[chord]

7 hours ago, carrigher82 said:

Newb question, is there any consenus/ruling on painting SCE Hallowed Knights scheme but saying its a Hammers of Sigmar army? And am I readings correctly - enemy kills a unit of liberators and on a 5+ this unit just comes back on the board anywhere else 9" away!? please let this be true. 

I don't think it says (don't have book in front of me) that the dead unit comes back. It says set up a unit.

Now does that mean I can have a 5 model unit die, and set up a 15 model unit?  

[AwareTheLegend]

22 minutes ago, chord said:

I don't think it says (don't have book in front of me) that the dead unit comes back. It says set up a unit.

Now does that mean I can have a 5 model unit die, and set up a 15 model unit?  

I'm pretty sure it says an identical unit that died.

[Erdemo86]

Does we got any informations on upcoming stormcast errata? I think we need a lot of explanations, most for stapling CA‘s.