AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Alfascozzesi]

On 7/10/2018 at 3:15 PM, PJetski said:

Sureheart is strictly better, since +3 is worth much more than reroll. However, command points have a significant opportunity cost.

You can use Surehearts ability multiple times. If you use it 3 times for +9" charge you have a guaranteed charge out of Scions.

...assuming your army has the HAMMERS OF SIGMAR keyword

Another quick query. If I drop a unit of paladins along with Gavriel can he use his CA in turn one to help the charge from 9" away as he wasn't on the table during the hero phase.

[Bellfree]

44 minutes ago, Alfascozzesi said:

Another quick query. If I drop a unit of paladins along with Gavriel can he use his CA in turn one to help the charge from 9" away as he wasn't on the table during the hero phase.

Start of the charge phase.

[Bellfree]

 

58 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

It's either Tempestors (cheap, shooty) or Fulminators for me. Concussors and Desolators aren't good enough even after the points drops.

Tempestors aren't really shooty...or cheap though. At 220pts I can't see them being more useful than concussors on a per point basis. I've used them for a long time(back when they had their nifty -1 to hit thing and a useful breath attack) and after a while it becomes a celebratory moment when the crossbows actually manage to land a wound. Concussors do 1 less wound on average(total across the unit) in shooting and do 4ish more wounds per turn in melee while also having decent mortal wound output.

[Bellfree]

13 hours ago, PJetski said:

Swords are almost always better than maces. They are better without buffs, any buffs to wound rolls (such as Empower or Celestial Blades) make the swords pull ahead even further.

Buffs to the number of attacks like Vandus Hammerhand or the Celestial Vindicators command traits might make the Maces better.

Keep in mind that the this ends up being such a small difference overall  that there is a strong argument to be had that the wildly different monetary costs of the two setup be the determining factor.

[DanielFM]

34 minutes ago, Bellfree said:

 

Tempestors aren't really shooty...or cheap though. At 220pts I can't see them being more useful than concussors on a per point basis. I've used them for a long time(back when they had their nifty -1 to hit thing and a useful breath attack) and after a while it becomes a celebratory moment when the crossbows actually manage to land a wound. Concussors do 1 less wound on average(total across the unit) in shooting and do 4ish more wounds per turn in melee while also having decent mortal wound output.

I know you hate the unit now Bellfree but they are quite cheap for what they bring. 10 3+ rr1's, 8 3+4+ shots, 2 4+ MW shots and some moderate punch in CC with (your hated) hit debuff aura on top is quite a lot for 220 points.

40 points less than Concussors justify the difference in CC output, but you don't bring Tempestors for that. Fulminators beat both them and Concussors at being a tanky beatstick. They are a tanky annoyance that can do decent damage without engaging (with the help of a Drakesworn bow) and kill/block weak/shooty units in CC. They are slower, tankier (except against MW) Vanguard Palladors.

I accept that your experience with their new rules can be underwheelming. But it's not my case.

And I can't bear myself to recomend Concussors, sorry. Their Hammers no longer interact with the Drakesworn buff, they cause less MW per point than Retributors and perform worse than Fulminators.

[Trajann Valoris]

I don't understand why so many people keep saying that  Cycle of the Storm is broken. I only find it useful if you get the same damage as wounds to heal one of them and survive, any additional damage would kill the model so I find it quite useless.

For example, my Knight-Incantator (Wounds 5), takes the attack from an enemy unit, and deals 7 damage (4 from one weapon and 3 from another). The Knight-Incantator suffers 5 damage but does not die because he heals one wound with the  Cycle of the Storm, yet there are 2 damage/wounds left to assign and he dies after healing.  Is that correct or am I misapplying the rule?

[barjed]

Ignoring the obvious superiority of Sequitors for a moment - let's say I want to run two units of 5 Liberators in my list. They are going to be using the Celestial Vindicators rules. Paired weapons used to be a bit average choice in the past but I am trying to eveluate them again. So what do you guys think about the dual wielding Libs? Worth a try in a close combat list?

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, Trajann Valoris said:

I don't understand why so many people keep saying that  Cycle of the Storm is broken. I only find it useful if you get the same damage as wounds to heal one of them and survive, any additional damage would kill the model so I find it quite useless.

For example, my Knight-Incantator (Wounds 5), takes the attack from an enemy unit, and deals 7 damage (4 from one weapon and 3 from another). The Knight-Incantator suffers 5 damage but does not die because he heals one wound with the  Cycle of the Storm, yet there are 2 damage/wounds left to assign and he dies after healing.  Is that correct or am I misapplying the rule?

It's either OP for people who interpret it as "excess wounds are discarded", weak for people who understand it like you (and has no experience with it, me included), and nice for some people who has already played it according to that interpretation yet they have found it deceptively useful.

8 minutes ago, barjed said:

Ignoring the obvious superiority of Sequitors for a moment - let's say I want to run two units of 5 Liberators in my list. They are going to be using the Celestial Vindicators rules. Paired weapons used to be a bit average choice in the past but I am trying to eveluate them again. So what do you guys think about the dual wielding Libs? Worth a try in a close combat list?

What can be said? They do less damage than Sequitors (you already know), they are more frail than Sequitors (same) and Libs with shields.

Buffed with Mystic Shield and Empower they could be decent. But there are better choices.

Their only saving grace is cheap Battleline filler. You get 40 points VS fielding Sequitors: use them well.

[Erdemo86]

13 hours ago, ToB said:

What do you deploy and what is in the realm?

I deployed 2x evocators, 1x 20 Seqs, Gavriel and Heraldor in the Realm. 

Rest on the field. Arkanum always far enough to dont get banned but in 36“ distance where i want to drop everblaze.( best near to a wizard because of -2 to cast grom everblaze)

i started first every match because of the battalion i had not so much drops.( 7 i believe)

i always started the game with everblaze+ Staff+ Heraldor and then alpha strike+ gavriel+ 2 cp for that +6 charge.

The 2 balistas and 2x5 Sequitors i used to go for objectives while the Rest hold enemy in his territory. ( not difficult with 20 Seqs+ 10 evos.)Also if you get it done to hold the line your everblaze will do damage again next turn.

i also always used ride the atherwinds first turn to get in range of the sky drops with arkanum for the 6+ ward save. 

With castellant i buffed arkanum first turn and then run to get in range to buff the seqs second turn or went for objectivs too.

i made so much damage turn 1 that it was always very frustating for my enemys.

after turn one i didnt used any cp and spare them for hammers of sigmar CA later. Very satisfying feeling to get a unit back. I managed one time to get 20 sequitors back. It was like: i use a cp, rolled a 5, game over.

i really think that stormcasts are in a very nice spot now. Very Competive and high Tier.

The only frustrating thing is that you need all of the new models, feels like starting a new army. Thats why i decided to speedpaint them anf took a diffrent paintjob then before. To lazy to paint a whole army again.

i will take the same paintjob i saw here in the paint section but will do some glowing effects too. I think i will get the whole army done in 2 days.

here a example:

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Erdemo86

[DanielFM]

I hope Gavriel gets FAQed to not stack, together with other CAs.

It's absurd that you can almost guarantee several charges from Scions by only investing in a Battalion. It's foolproof, and I pressume quite frustrating for the opponent.

[Erdemo86]

14 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

I hope Gavriel gets FAQed to not stack, together with other CAs.

It's absurd that you can almost guarantee several charges from Scions by only investing in a Battalion. It's foolproof, and I pressume quite frustrating for the opponent.

Even if it get faqd you can use it one time so you need 6+ to charge and you use 1 cp for reroll charge.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Erdemo86

[jobume]

Hey! Does anyone know if Skyborne Slayers has changed? It’s not in the app, but it has points in GHB. The fact that it has dropped to 190 makes me think that it will lose its deepstrike ability.

[DanielFM]

13 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Even if it get faqd you can use it one time so you need 6+ to charge and you use 1 cp for reroll charge.

That's way more reasonable.

[Kemika]

Hello folks,

How do you use Gavriel CA when he's in Scion ? Since you drop him at the end of the movement phase, you can't use it, right ? Or I've misread something...

Edited July 14, 2018 by Kemika

[Alfascozzesi]

8 minutes ago, Kemika said:

Hello folks,

How do you use Gavriel CA when he's in Scion ? Since you drop him at the end of the movement phase, you can't use it, right ? Or I've misread something...

I just asked that but have been told that you can use this CA at the start of the charge phase.

[Kemika]

1 minute ago, Alfascozzesi said:

I just asked that but have been told that you can use this CA at the start of the charge phase.

When I read his CA, it states that it affects the charge phase, but it's not written that the CA must be use in the charge phase ? Or is it my bad interpretation ? ^^

[GeneralZero]

It seems that many of you use gavriel. So what the deal with this miniature? is it a must have? (I'm on the verge of ordering)

On the other hand, what do you think about Easy to Build: Astreia Solbright, Lord-Arcanum ?

[Richelieu]

15 minutes ago, Kemika said:

When I read his CA, it states that it affects the charge phase, but it's not written that the CA must be use in the charge phase ? Or is it my bad interpretation ? ^^

The text for his command ability has changed from what it originally said.  The first sentence is now: You can use this command ability at the start of the charge phase.

[Kemika]

14 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

The text for his command ability has changed from what it originally said.  The first sentence is now: You can use this command ability at the start of the charge phase.

Oh thanks, I read his warscroll on the GW website not in my battletome...

Sure, he's a must pick now for the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost.

Can't decide yet if I will run him with my fulminators and Vandus or with Evocators on Dracoline...

Edited July 14, 2018 by Kemika

[Richelieu]

25 minutes ago, Kemika said:

Oh thanks, I read his warscroll on the GW website not in my battletome...

Sure, he's a must pick now for the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost.

Can't decide yet if I will run him with my fulminators and Vandus or with Evocators on Dracoline...

I think vandus is also quite good for hammers.  A 48" diameter bubble of battleshock immunity without having to use a command ability is pretty big for SC.  Plus he hits very hard and has a top notch command ability.  Only issue is he's rather fragile for his points.

[Richelieu]

I think that an easy fix to the soul wars evocator unit size is to just buy two of the new magazines that come with alternate sculpt knight incantors.  The armor and tabards look almost identical to an Evocator and your allowed to mix and match weapons.

[DanielFM]

20 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I think that an easy fix to the soul wars evocator unit size is to just buy two of the new magazines that come with alternate sculpt knight incantors.  The armor and tabards look almost identical to an Evocator and your allowed to mix and match weapons.

Only problem is identical pose and head (this can be easily solved by head swap though).

[blueshirtman]

Thank you guys for the help, last question. The castigators seem to be meh at best, but in the end they seem to be crossbow armed dudes, do you guys think that they could be used a stand in for boltstorm armed judicators, This would give him the 3ed battline to play in normal games.

[Richelieu]

18 minutes ago, blueshirtman said:

Thank you guys for the help, last question. The castigators seem to be meh at best, but in the end they seem to be crossbow armed dudes, do you guys think that they could be used a stand in for boltstorm armed judicators, This would give him the 3ed battline to play in normal games.

Most people would be OK with that, but in a tournament it would usually be prohibited.

[Urauloth]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

I think that an easy fix to the soul wars evocator unit size is to just buy two of the new magazines that come with alternate sculpt knight incantors.  The armor and tabards look almost identical to an Evocator and your allowed to mix and match weapons.

I'm wordering if the incredible similarity between Evocators and Incantors isn't a potential problem. I know you can make an Incantor out of the Evocator kit that went up for pre-order today, but I'm not actually sure exactly what the difference is. I'm pretty sure if I looked a a bunch of them hanging out in close proximity I'd have to ask my opponent what was up.

What are the distinguishing features of the knight? The voidstorm scroll and a greater number of flasks? If you look at Zeraphina, she has parchment on her staff like a Lord-Arcanum, and a different style or armour and robes (noteably she has a classic cuirass and pteruges like many other knight classes instead of the tabard-bib-things Evocators have over their torso and waist) but the guy on the magazine cover... I would assume he was an Evocator with a grandstave without having been told otherwise.