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AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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Hello,

I am thinking of getting into deepkin and I have a huge love affair with horde armies (fyreslayers, FEC, Mortal Khorne) so I am really drawn to an Namarti based army. I am interested to see if anyone has played a list similar to the below (theory hammer I can do in my own mind :) ).

Mor'Phann

Tidecaster General Lord of storm and Sea

2* Soulscryer

3* Soulrender Last Lament & Lens of Refraction

30 Thrall

30 Thrall

10 Thrall

10 Thrall

10 Reaver

10 Reaver

Namarti Corps

I think Deepkin has some advantages over other horde armies. The soulscryer and flood tide give a lot more maneuver to the army. Then the support heroes between forgotten nightmares and the lens should be a lot harder to snipe. Also with 6 Isharaan heroes the ritual is more likely to go off and being able to remove flying from an opposing army is a huge threat along with reversed tides for a deadly second turn.

 

Again would love to hear if someone has actually played this sort of list as kinda annoying when you buy, build and paint large model count armies to find they suck. Also please note I am not anti the other units I think a lot of them are very good and may well make for a better army I just love horde and regenerating horde at that.

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Thralls in large quantities are very difficult to deal with, but their movement is a bit meh, so you have to sort of plan out where you are going and what you're going to do ahead of time. I've been playing against a single block of 30 for a while, and I have to devote about half my army to dealing with them in order to keep them from over-running me. I can't imagine having to deal with 80 of them. It would largely depend on your deployment I think.

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Hi all, looking to finish off my 2k Deepkin army. Before I splash (...! ?) the cash any thoughts on these options?

My goals for this force are variety, fun to play with and against, low model count (painted asap), middling power level (neither fully optimised nor weaksauce).

Already have (1320 pts):
Akhelian King (general)
Tidecaster
10 Thralls
6 Morsarr Guard
Allopex
Leviadon

Option 1 - balanced? (+620 pts):
Soulscryer
10 Reavers
6 Ishlaen Guard
Akhelian Corps

Option 2 - harder hitting? (+680 pts):
Eidolon of the Storm
6 Ishlaen Guard

Option 3 - fewer eels? (+640/680 pts):
Eidolon of the Sea/Storm
3 Ishlaen Guard
Akhelian Corps

Option 1 is my original plan but when I saw I could drop a Soulscryer, 10 Reavers and the Akhelian Corps for a Storm Eidolon that seemed like a good trade. And then dropping a further 3 Ishlaen to bring the Akhelian Corps back in, have the option of Storm->Sea Eidolon and make it less eel-heavy is tempting, but perhaps comes in at too low a model count?

Set me straight fish-friends! ??

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On 7/13/2018 at 10:52 PM, Pompe said:

Would you mind doing a quick write-up of your experience?  Would love to hear your thoughts! Sorry if I missed it in the thread earlier. 

You can listen to our podcast at:

for a full rundown of my games. 

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A couple things this weekend.

1.  Friday, I picked up the reinforcements for my original purchase.  7 boxes of eels and Malign Sorcery.

2.  Played my first game with

Volturnos

Soulrender - Death weapon with bravery check on hits of 6 for D3 MWs.

AoSea - Ethereal Amulet

1x20 thralls

2x10 thralls

2x10 reavers

1x3 Ishlaen Guard

Cogs

Geminds

Namarti Corp

A terrible loss.  Barely even considered a game.  Vs new stormcast and they came down from the heavens, surrounded me on 3 sides and just murdered my guys.

Fairly confident that reavers are trash unless you run them into melee.  Using them at long range is garbage.  I'd rather take a more durable unit for less points for objects or Khineri for objectives.  Thralls never got a chance to shine.  There weren't enough of them left after my opponents first strike and swinging into SCE 2-3+ save rerolling 1's isn't going to be good.  The AoSea was disappointing.  I failed every dice roll which is whatever but the last turn, I shot and charged and kill a dude.  Fairly meh for 440 pts.  I'd probably run tidecasters or spellweavers like mentioned earlier in the thread.

3.  Built my friends new Nighthaunt army.  2 Soul wars boxes worth, a 10 man of something and the new push fit banshees.  Really easy and fast kits to put together.  Something like 80 models in 4.5 hrs with mold line cleaning and a little gap filling for 2-3 models that just would not push together.  I almost bought them last weekend but after looking at there rulebook, glad I didn't.  It's a great army, very durable, lots of MWs but it's just another melee army and I have enough already. 

4.  Probably going to stick with my plan and buy a DoK army in a month or 2.  I love elves.  Malekith was the greatest thing ever.  I want all the new  elves.  They also look much better from a competitive viewpoint compared to Deepkin.

20180713_193345.jpg

20180715_222314.jpg

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8 hours ago, Skyel said:

You can listen to our podcast at:

for a full rundown of my games. 

That didnt really tell us much about how the list is played.  Pretty much just how the games went in VERY broad strokes.

From what I gather, Reavers sit home on objectives and you take a unit of Ishlaen and Morrsarr with the scryer.  Not really sure how you use AoSea or why you would take reavers instead of Thralls though, which I think was what most people are curious about.

 

Edited by Drofnum
Words.
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20 hours ago, thundrchickn said:

A couple things this weekend.

1.  Friday, I picked up the reinforcements for my original purchase.  7 boxes of eels and Malign Sorcery.

2.  Played my first game with

Volturnos

Soulrender - Death weapon with bravery check on hits of 6 for D3 MWs.

AoSea - Ethereal Amulet

1x20 thralls

2x10 thralls

2x10 reavers

1x3 Ishlaen Guard

Cogs

Geminds

Namarti Corp

A terrible loss.  Barely even considered a game.  Vs new stormcast and they came down from the heavens, surrounded me on 3 sides and just murdered my guys.

Fairly confident that reavers are trash unless you run them into melee.  Using them at long range is garbage.  I'd rather take a more durable unit for less points for objects or Khineri for objectives.  Thralls never got a chance to shine.  There weren't enough of them left after my opponents first strike and swinging into SCE 2-3+ save rerolling 1's isn't going to be good.  The AoSea was disappointing.  I failed every dice roll which is whatever but the last turn, I shot and charged and kill a dude.  Fairly meh for 440 pts.  I'd probably run tidecasters or spellweavers like mentioned earlier in the thread.

3.  Built my friends new Nighthaunt army.  2 Soul wars boxes worth, a 10 man of something and the new push fit banshees.  Really easy and fast kits to put together.  Something like 80 models in 4.5 hrs with mold line cleaning and a little gap filling for 2-3 models that just would not push together.  I almost bought them last weekend but after looking at there rulebook, glad I didn't.  It's a great army, very durable, lots of MWs but it's just another melee army and I have enough already. 

4.  Probably going to stick with my plan and buy a DoK army in a month or 2.  I love elves.  Malekith was the greatest thing ever.  I want all the new  elves.  They also look much better from a competitive viewpoint compared to Deepkin.

20180713_193345.jpg

20180715_222314.jpg

Wow, this post made me super depressed about playing Idoneth now as it's going to be my first AoS army ever....everyone (even the store owners) tried to get me to buy either Khorne or Stormcast....but seriously demons and paladins are so...overused.....why I wanted something different, something fresh. Sorry to hear that you had such crappy luck with your army, I'm still going full in with Idoneth even if they are not competitive. 

 

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1 hour ago, Niishaw said:

Wow, this post made me super depressed about playing Idoneth now as it's going to be my first AoS army ever....everyone (even the store owners) tried to get me to buy either Khorne or Stormcast....but seriously demons and paladins are so...overused.....why I wanted something different, something fresh. Sorry to hear that you had such crappy luck with your army, I'm still going full in with Idoneth even if they are not competitive. 

 

I think they are plenty competitive, in my experience you just need Morrsarr as a hammer/scalpel to deal with some of the BS this edition - ie Slann and necromancers sitting back and generating free units. I've been running fairly balanced lists between 1k and 1.5k and have yet to lose a game having played Slaanesh Daemons, new stormcast, nighthaunt, seraphon, sylvaneth, and Legions of Nagash. Morrsarr have been MVPs every game.

 

Idoneth are very much a finesse army where everything needs to be in the right place at the right time, and are not nearly as forgiving as, say, SCE or LoN.

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Hi guys, I Get a Aspect box, my army is based on fast strike cavalry, Sharks and turtle, i dont have any mages (since I Discover that Mistweaver Saih isnt allie of ID)

So should i go to Aspect of sea or Storm? 

Dont know if go all in CC or go to Mage.

 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Fuethan
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony 
Mistweaver Saih (100) ( My club let me play this)
- Allies
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)
Akhelian Leviadon (380)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

I try to play this in next tournament, dont know what magic items should i use. 

Shark is risky but love the model.

 

 

Edited by Curzex
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17 hours ago, Drofnum said:

That didnt really tell us much about how the list is played.  Pretty much just how the games went in VERY broad strokes.

 From what I gather, Reavers sit home on objectives and you take a unit of Ishlaen and Morrsarr with the scryer.  Not really sure how you use AoSea or why you would take reavers instead of Thralls though, which I think was what most people are curious about.

  

Reavers are a standout unit in Fuethan. I don't care about their damage output (though it's more than you'd expect). They are there to hold objectives, so over thralls they have +2 move and reroll runs, when I am shooting / charging and running in 3 turns, that's a big movement difference which helps to get objectives. 

AOSea was mostly there to dish out some spells, and give me a character which can score well in 2/6 of the new scenarios where you need a wizard. He didn't stand out much as a unit TBH. Considering dropping. 

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11 hours ago, Niishaw said:

Wow, this post made me super depressed about playing Idoneth now as it's going to be my first AoS army ever....everyone (even the store owners) tried to get me to buy either Khorne or Stormcast....but seriously demons and paladins are so...overused.....why I wanted something different, something fresh. Sorry to hear that you had such crappy luck with your army, I'm still going full in with Idoneth even if they are not competitive. 

 

I wouldn't feel depressed.  It was game one with the army with a hodgepodge list of stuff I owned that isn't optimized and my opponent is a great player that spends significantly more time on this game than I do.  I like running lists like this to try out a bunch of the other units that internet "doesn't care about".  If you read everything about Deepkin, it's always about the eels.  I was bad mouthing the Reavers to my opponent because statistically, they're not good and when I actually tried them out, I got exactly what I expected but he swore they were good because he saw a guy at a tournament running 40ish of them take 3rd.  I believe someone could win 3rd at a small local thing of a dozen people but I would bet money someone taking 40+ to Adepticon won't finish in the top 30% and maybe not even the top 50%.  In that post, I had a picture of boxes of eels so I'll be fine in the future.  

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11 hours ago, Niishaw said:

Wow, this post made me super depressed about playing Idoneth now as it's going to be my first AoS army ever....everyone (even the store owners) tried to get me to buy either Khorne or Stormcast....but seriously demons and paladins are so...overused.....why I wanted something different, something fresh. Sorry to hear that you had such crappy luck with your army, I'm still going full in with Idoneth even if they are not competitive. 

 

I‘v Never lost with Idoneth so far ^^. I wish you good luck =]

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I'm using the shattered dominion bases which happen to have peg-holes underneath, so rather than stick the curved stems on top of the shattered dominion detail I've decided to go with these peg stems and drill up into the eels after snipping off the nub underneath:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Citadel-Flying-Stems-with-60mm-Flying-Bases

An expensive extra but what else is new?

Having said that I did also try sticking the flying stems to the eels as provided (i.e. the claw and the nub, using plastic glue) and in fairness they do seem to hold well enough - after some precarious balancing until dry, mind.

Edited by Tommy
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16 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Do you all use two full shipwreck or do you use only one that you split (or not)?

One at the moment.

 

I have a question. Is the turtle considered a mount for the fuethan bonus (repeat 1s to wound)?

 

Edited by Curzex
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8 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Do you all use two full shipwreck or do you use only one that you split (or not)?

I think it depends on the scenario you are playing....two gives you a little more field control. I personally play with two shipwrecks and this has never been bad for me, but try and see what works for you :) 

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As someone looking at Deepkin still as possibly my next army I am toying with a few lists. I wanted to see what people thought of generals though. From what I can see there only seem to be two worth while options.

1) Volturnos, he essentially says to your opponent beat me before turn 3 otherwise I pump 3 to 4 CP multiple times into 3 units and stack crazy attacks all striking first and win.

2) Tidecaster for reversing tides dream scenario you get bottom of turn 1 then top of 2 high tide and win due to mass early pressure. Particularly with Fuethan for Flood tide into High tide into Flood tide.

 

Normal king just seems to be outclassed by Volturnos by many degrees that the 40 point saving just doesn't seem worth it. Then other heroes have zero command abilities where as the two listed above both completely change the way you play and how your opponent has to tackle you. I had thought of maybe an Eidolon with the +2 wounds trait plus 6+ shrug item to make them super tanky but I don't perceive the same value.

Still be good to hear from people who do use other generals before I lock into a list to buy as want to consider all options.

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5 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

As someone looking at Deepkin still as possibly my next army I am toying with a few lists. I wanted to see what people thought of generals though. From what I can see there only seem to be two worth while options.

1) Volturnos, he essentially says to your opponent beat me before turn 3 otherwise I pump 3 to 4 CP multiple times into 3 units and stack crazy attacks all striking first and win.

2) Tidecaster for reversing tides dream scenario you get bottom of turn 1 then top of 2 high tide and win due to mass early pressure. Particularly with Fuethan for Flood tide into High tide into Flood tide.

 

Normal king just seems to be outclassed by Volturnos by many degrees that the 40 point saving just doesn't seem worth it. Then other heroes have zero command abilities where as the two listed above both completely change the way you play and how your opponent has to tackle you. I had thought of maybe an Eidolon with the +2 wounds trait plus 6+ shrug item to make them super tanky but I don't perceive the same value.

Still be good to hear from people who do use other generals before I lock into a list to buy as want to consider all options.


Volturnos is really really good, i won't stack the command ablity multiple times because probably it's something that will be Faqed.

King is perfectly viable , and it's not outclassed by volturnos beacuse he can have artifact and traits and some are awesome;
1) +1+1 hit and wound (something that make me wanna try the greatsword)+unstoppable fury for a ton of damage
2) Amulet that make you ethereal so you can always use the falchion and have an unmodified save 3+, this could be really annoying combined with born from agony trait and being within 6" of a shipwreck
3) The lens

I'd gladly make my eidolon a general but then i must take at least 3 units of thrall and i don't think they are particularly good.

Tidecaster is a bit better in that sense because i think that reavers are much better than thralls and reversing tides is Really strong in fuethan.

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5 hours ago, Gose said:


Volturnos is really really good, i won't stack the command ablity multiple times because probably it's something that will be Faqed.

King is perfectly viable , and it's not outclassed by volturnos beacuse he can have artifact and traits and some are awesome;
1) +1+1 hit and wound (something that make me wanna try the greatsword)+unstoppable fury for a ton of damage
2) Amulet that make you ethereal so you can always use the falchion and have an unmodified save 3+, this could be really annoying combined with born from agony trait and being within 6" of a shipwreck
3) The lens

I'd gladly make my eidolon a general but then i must take at least 3 units of thrall and i don't think they are particularly good.

Tidecaster is a bit better in that sense because i think that reavers are much better than thralls and reversing tides is Really strong in fuethan.

Nice on the normal king yeah I guess you can ramp them up. 

 

Im not sure on the stacking attacks as I play ironjawz as well. I thought waagh from same model shouldn’t stack. Someone asked GW sigmar FB and showed the reply saying they played it stacking. So it seems like they all stack apart from those were the errata said they don’t (a lot of maggotkin don’t stack).  Maybe FAQ will change them all (personally I think they shouldn’t stack)

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1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

Nice on the normal king yeah I guess you can ramp them up. 

 

Im not sure on the stacking attacks as I play ironjawz as well. I thought waagh from same model shouldn’t stack. Someone asked GW sigmar FB and showed the reply saying they played it stacking. So it seems like they all stack apart from those were the errata said they don’t (a lot of maggotkin don’t stack).  Maybe FAQ will change them all (personally I think they shouldn’t stack)

It says they stack. Only things that dont stack some where expressly say they dont. I doubt it will get FAQ'd as they made ID with 2nd edition in mind. That is why the ID heroes have to be your general to use their various abilities. Its balanced by having a single point of failure with no redundancy. 

 

Normal king is the in my opinion the most reliable option if you want to go for the turn 3 super buffed units. 

 

The cloud of midnight on him is great. Come on turn two with a soul scryer then use cloud of midnight to get you to turn 3 and you can rather liable keep him alive. Vulturnous is good with spells however if your opponent can drill a hole or has fast moving unit that can charge him he is more vulnerable. 

 

Out side of that the normal king even with out weapons is more deadly than vulturnous gor the pts.  Which means a few things such as +5 attack the normal king can give himself all his bonus attacks and go kill a bunch of stuff. Or the normal king can act as a beat stick through the course of the game, with artifacts and command abilities.

 

I tend to be pretty meh on vulturnous. He definitely is strong, when he gets to jam that command abilit a few times on turn 3. It's just what is he doing up until then and can he get that far?? I dont play him and haven't, but my friend does and every game he has played him. He tells me he should have taken the generic one with cloud of midnight. 

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