AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Drofnum]

On the command abilities stacking, I think some will get FAQ'd.  But I doubt Idoneth will, in order to use any of ours the unit has to be a general and for the Kings you can only use them 1 turn per battle.  Thats already really limiting, preventing them from stacking just seems overkill and means you end the game with 2-4 unused command points 90% of the time.

[Drofnum]

Quote

I tend to be pretty meh on vulturnous. He definitely is strong, when he gets to jam that command abilit a few times on turn 3. It's just what is he doing up until then and can he get that far?? I dont play him and haven't, but my friend does and every game he has played him. He tells me he should have taken the generic one with cloud of midnight. 

I play him pretty exclusively and like him quite a lot.  I played a generic king my last two games and he seemed very underwhelming compared to Volturnos, although a lot of that was poor dice rolls those two games.  I really like the increased range on Volturnos abilities as well as the spell ignore, and if you need cloud of midnight you're positioning him wrong anyway.

[Reuben Parker]

Okay interesting several votes for normal king. It seems from the responses that normal king means you use him aggressively and play a “normal” game. Vulturnous is more a combo piece as I was thinking and you play keep away first couple of turns to try to win turn 3. 

 

Saying that hat having played quite a bit of sigmar I find often games are decided turn 2. That’s why I like the look of the tidecaster as he gets you to high tide earlier. 

[Drofnum]

I just keep Volturnos out of combat round 1 really.  Round 2 you can charge him in to something you're confident he can kill outright or survive the retaliation.  With his 3+ save its not too hard for him to survive 1-2 rounds of combat with most things, and generally the things that would kill him are the things you have your eels trying to kill.  Its basically just all about target priority.  I lost my king/Volturnos in my first couple games early and since then havent had them die before round 5 and they are engaged in combat from turn 2 on in most of my games.

Having a caster with Abyssal Darkness near the king helps out a lot too, a 2+ save is pretty tough to kill with just about anything and throw in a mystic shield if you're really worried about him.

[Reezark_SP]

Hey guys what are your thoughts on something like this?

Enclave: Undecided but leaning towards Dhom-Hain.

General: Volturnos

Tidecaster (Coral Ring or Kraken's Tooth)

Battleline:
Morrsarr Guard x6

Thralls x10

Thralls x10

Other:
Leviadon

Allopexes x3

Reavers x10

Endless Spells:
Lifeswarm
Maelstrom


Some thought:  I usually prefer to run Thralls at least 20 strong but I needed the 3 battle line however in the games they will stick close together and essentially act as 1 single unit. Reavers I know are not looked at very fondly but to be honest they've been doing great as long as you tie up other units so you can safely get within 9" and unleash 30 shots. Reavers and Thralls can also crowd around objectives where model count matters.

 

[Reezark_SP]

Also quick rules question regarding Voltrunos.

If I save up command points so that I have 3 by turn 3, I can spend all 3 command points to use his command ability 3 times correct? Meaning, I can potentially have 9 units get +1 attack or 3 units getting +3 attacks? This is how my group interpreted how command abilities work now and I was the Deepkin player so I was happy to have such an advantage but wow when that turn 3 came around my Morrsarr, Aspect of the Storm, and 20 Thralls got +3 attacks and it was pretty insane lol.

[Reuben Parker]

Yeah the stacking seems to be that way for his ability. Certain commanders are limited so a unit can only benefit once but Deepkin don’t have that limit. 

I think you could do with some more support heroes (soulscryer). Also I’m not a fan of endless spells from lists that only have one caster. I would probably drop a shark and the spells to add a hero or two. 

[Reezark_SP]

2 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Yeah the stacking seems to be that way for his ability. Certain commanders are limited so a unit can only benefit once but Deepkin don’t have that limit. 

I think you could do with some more support heroes (soulscryer). Also I’m not a fan of endless spells from lists that only have one caster. I would probably drop a shark and the spells to add a hero or two. 

Thanks for the rules clarification I'm glad we played Volturnos correctly but wow is that ability powerful now I mean I can't see playing anything other than Volturnos as my general lol

Anyway yeah the endless spells really were only considered because I had 80 points left and if I had 20 points free I would totally add a Soulscryer. I suppose I could drop the Reavers and then ally in those sweet new Sequitors. That would give me the points I need to get the scryer.

Or drop the spells and use the last 80 points for allied Heartrenders.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Reezark_SP

[Reuben Parker]

1 hour ago, Reezark_SP said:

Thanks for the rules clarification I'm glad we played Volturnos correctly but wow is that ability powerful now I mean I can't see playing anything other than Volturnos as my general lol

Anyway yeah the endless spells really were only considered because I had 80 points left and if I had 20 points free I would totally add a Soulscryer. I suppose I could drop the Reavers and then ally in those sweet new Sequitors. That would give me the points I need to get the scryer.

Or drop the spells and use the last 80 points for allied Heartrenders.

Or the other thing you could do is drop the spells, split the eels into two units of 3 and then take one unit of 30 Thralls with the regiment size discount with the extra 80 points  

 

If not Heartrenders are always a useful objective grabber / screen unit. 

[thundrchickn]

On 7/18/2018 at 3:27 AM, newsun said:

What are people mounting their eels on? I still don't trust the gw plastic flying posts.

I ordered 1/4 acrylic rod, cut them on a band saw at 1-1/4 to 2 in lengths for variety.  Drilled 1/8 holes into the bottom of the eels about  where that nub is for the flight stand.  Cut that thing off and scrape it flat and clean.  Apply glue into both holes, press a 1/8 round magnet in flush as possible.  Profit.  I order 1/8 dia. x 1/10 tall round magnets for magnetizing my line troops that use standard GW bases and I order them from kjmagnetics.com.  Glue the other end of the rod to the center of the base.  Add sand, rocks, etc for basing and put a little around the base of the rod for a much stronger hold.  You can't spray prime the base without covering the stick but whatever.  Sanded bases typically don't need primer anyways because of the porous nature of the sanded surface.  Now you can store those fiddly models a little safer.  

I personally use a clear plastic box with a galvanized steel sheet (you can buy at any local Home Depot or Lowes in sheets of 12-18 inches by 12-24 inches for about $8 US) cut to match the base of the box (approximately 12"x16").  The bases has a magnet under it to stick it to the plate.  The magnet already in the eel can stick it to the plate for easy storage or you can lazy gamer it and throw the bases in a box and store the models in foam or whatever.

[Austin]

I played a quick 1k game against DoK, lost but I think that's because of how I played vs the overall army strengths.

My army:

Mor'phann Enclave

Lotann

Tidecaster (general)

-Sands of Infinity

-Lord of Storm and Sea

-Pressure of the Deep

Soulrender x2

Thralls x30

Reavers x10

Purple Sun

 

Thoughts-

Lotann is way better than I thought he was.  I really thought he was terrible but he helped the Namarti and ton, and somehow was no pushover in combat.  I am going to play him more, but for now he is going to be in every Namarti heavy army I make.  The Soulrenders were rockstars.  Good in combat, good at bringing back my troops.  Reavers are great against DoK, mobility helped me with pressure and killed quite a few.

The Purple Sun was sort of a waste.  Although my opponent had a ton of Witch Aelves, I still felt it was too random and that I would have been better off trying to remake the list to get even a minimum unit of eels for charges.

[Reuben Parker]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:41 AM, Caladancid said:

I played a quick 1k game against DoK, lost but I think that's because of how I played vs the overall army strengths.

My army:

Mor'phann Enclave

Lotann

Tidecaster (general)

-Sands of Infinity

-Lord of Storm and Sea

-Pressure of the Deep

Soulrender x2

Thralls x30

Reavers x10

Purple Sun

 

Thoughts-

Lotann is way better than I thought he was.  I really thought he was terrible but he helped the Namarti and ton, and somehow was no pushover in combat.  I am going to play him more, but for now he is going to be in every Namarti heavy army I make.  The Soulrenders were rockstars.  Good in combat, good at bringing back my troops.  Reavers are great against DoK, mobility helped me with pressure and killed quite a few.

The Purple Sun was sort of a waste.  Although my opponent had a ton of Witch Aelves, I still felt it was too random and that I would have been better off trying to remake the list to get even a minimum unit of eels for charges.

To be fair purple sun isn’t really for killing hordes it’s for killing heroes and monsters (at which it’s amazing). 

[Manxs]

Hey guys i am looking to start a deepkin army for my local tournaments we do play pretty hardcore i have been eyeing them up for a while but have no idea where to begin  

[Aeryenn]

Just've seen the Aquaman trailer. There's a lot of cool stuff that might easily fit Idoneth Deepkin. Sea monsters, sea people, cool sceneries. 

[Reuben Parker]

Well I proxied the Mor’Phann Namarti horde today and I’m glad I did. Played against a good but not great Khorne list and got absolutely smashed. They are too flimsy to face off against a dedicated melee army. Also against armies where most models are 2&3 wounds their damage output is not enough as their special rule doesn’t trigger  

 

In regards the where to start a Deepkin army question I would advise sticking more to the eels side. Maybe a few small thrall or reaver units for objectives, screens and precision strikes. As a main line in an army they die too easily and have poor bravery so the 30 man units are a liability but without big units your reanimating won’t work. 

[Hanners]

Has anyone tried deepkin in a Path to Glory campaign?  My LGS is going to start a campaign in a couple weeks and I'm considering picking up deepkin as a side project.  Just not sure what would work best for starting units in the campaign and how to build it up.  People seem to be big fans of the eels but are they ok as only 3, or should I wait until I can recruit more?

Or is it better to flood the board with namarti to begin with?  I'm thinking I'd probably use an Akhelian king as my leader over the Tidecaster/Soulscryer.

[Keith]

Here is my list , still trying the Storm , seems ok so far.

i think the lone tide caster is a waste of points. So he might get replaced with an allied unit of Heartrenders.

What do you think?

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Dhom-Hain
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony  
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (400)
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight  
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

Units
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

 

[Austin]

12 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Well I proxied the Mor’Phann Namarti horde today and I’m glad I did. Played against a good but not great Khorne list and got absolutely smashed. They are too flimsy to face off against a dedicated melee army. Also against armies where most models are 2&3 wounds their damage output is not enough as their special rule doesn’t trigger  

 

In regards the where to start a Deepkin army question I would advise sticking more to the eels side. Maybe a few small thrall or reaver units for objectives, screens and precision strikes. As a main line in an army they die too easily and have poor bravery so the 30 man units are a liability but without big units your reanimating won’t work. 

What was the Khorne list? 

[Gose]

I think thralls are decent but hard to play, they are objective holders that can do good damage the only problem they got is that they can engage mostly under high tide, because they die too easily so they absolutly have to strike first.

Last game i played 3x10 Thrall ,one unit used as objective holder, other 2 flanking with soulscrier.
They were really usefull.

Eels are probably better in most situation, but for objective capture the only thing that counts are bodies so 10 "cheap" models, that in the right situation can do some decent damage, are welcome.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Gose

[Gose]

FAQ's out , seems they nerfed the positioning of the gloomtide (more restrictive) but our command abilities are intact and we can stack them (a lot of other became unstackable)

Edited July 23, 2018 by Gose

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, Keith said:

Here is my list , still trying the Storm , seems ok so far.

i think the lone tide caster is a waste of points. So he might get replaced with an allied unit of Heartrenders.

What do you think?

...

Nice! Swap the Soulscryer and 2x10 Thralls for a Leviadon and you get the exact list I'm painting up right now! ? Main reason being that it's quicker to paint one big model than many little ones... I hope!

I haven't played enough to comment generally, but I included the Tidecaster to have at least have some magic presence (unbind/dispel when you really need it, and I like her spell), to have an extra hero both for command point influence and certain objective games, and to maybe get maybe one ritual off per game with a bit of luck. But your Soulscryer does most of that too and is better for rituals.

Can I ask why you went 2x3 Ishlaen instead of 1x6? I'm leaning towards 1x6 because it feels meatier, but without any great thought behind it. And I kinda need to decide before assembling them tomorrow evening to know how many command group models to do... ?

[Reezark_SP]

Still experimenting with my list but so far its been this and its been a lot of fun to play.

Enclave: Dhom-Hain.

General: Volturnos

Soulscryer (Coral Ring or Kraken's Tooth)

Battleline:
Morrsarr Guard x6

Thralls x10

Thralls x10

Other:
Leviadon

Allopexes x3

Reavers x10

Khinerai Heartrenders x5

 

I'm considering dropping the Thralls for 2x3 Ishlaen Guard. Thralls are amazing if they can get into combat with something big on turn 3 but if not they are pretty meh. Ishlaen Guard are more "all purpose" which is what I need. As long as they stick close enough to the Leviadon thats a 2+ save thats immune to Rend. They seem perfect for holding the line and then follow up with Reavers just behind them and shoot 30 shots into whatever the Ishlaen are tanking, or charge in with Alloplexes or Morrsarr guard that the Soulscryer brings in.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Reezark_SP

[Icarion]

@Reezark_SPUnfortunately the Ishlaen Guard only get a 3+ save when they charge, and charging units cannot benefit from cover, so they can't get a 2+ save from the turtle's cover aura.

 

As for the FAQ , I like the change, as it gives me more options

for creativity on placement for the gloomtide. As it was before,  it was too good/easy to just allways put them where the objectives were. I doubt it was fun for my opponents but with this new change, it should add more variation to my games which can only make them more enjoyable.

[Reuben Parker]

12 hours ago, Caladancid said:

What was the Khorne list? 

Jugger Lord

Lord on Daemonic Mount

Bloodsecrator

Aspiring Deathbringer (prenerf that dropped today)

3*5 chaos warrior

2*10 chaos knights

2*6 Juggers

As I said its a good list (175 4+ or better wounds, can cover the board and is quick) but still was lacking the gore pilgrim skull reaper / bloodletters mortal wound combos. Yet it could zone out the soulscryers and had easily enough power to go through the Thrall horde like it was wet tissue paper.

I am thinking of proxying more of a defensive eel list that gets to turn 3 then stacks attacks and wins next, see how that works.

Volturnos

Soulscryer, Lens of refraction

Aspect of the Storm, Could of midnight

Akhelian Corps

Leviadon

Allopex

6 * Morrsarr

3 * Ishlaen

10 Thrall

Low wound count and I know it has a couple of what would be seen as marginal choices in the Aspect of Storm and Leviadon. I think both though may work in what is a defensive counter punch list. Also interestingly due to the buffs built into the units some of the more popular enclaves (Dhom-Hain & Fuethan) may not be such a benefit. I was thinking of maybe even running Nautilar to assist in the first couple of rounds of defensive play.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Reuben Parker

[Keith]

11 hours ago, Tommy said:

Nice! Swap the Soulscryer and 2x10 Thralls for a Leviadon and you get the exact list I'm painting up right now! ? Main reason being that it's quicker to paint one big model than many little ones... I hope!

I haven't played enough to comment generally, but I included the Tidecaster to have at least have some magic presence (unbind/dispel when you really need it, and I like her spell), to have an extra hero both for command point influence and certain objective games, and to maybe get maybe one ritual off per game with a bit of luck. But your Soulscryer does most of that too and is better for rituals.

Can I ask why you went 2x3 Ishlaen instead of 1x6? I'm leaning towards 1x6 because it feels meatier, but without any great thought behind it. And I kinda need to decide before assembling them tomorrow evening to know how many command group models to do... ?

Yeah I’m not sure only a handful of games with them , the Ishlaen guard are a handy unit for sticking around and taking objectives , but battleshock can be a problem with limited command points.

they don’t do much damage .