Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[TinyDino]

Where does the jury stand on Treemen? at 240pts they start to seem quite capable, and good at utilising Alarielle's abilty.

 

E.g. in a 1-drop Gnarlroot

Household+Gnarlroot 250

• TLA:Oaken Armour, Regrowth 300
• Branchwych: Acorn, Throne of Vines 80
• Alarielle 600
• 5 Tree-Revenants 80
• 10 Dryads 100
• 10 Dryads 100
• Treeman 240
• Treeman 240

 

Or 1 drop Dreadwood

• Dreadwood + Outcasts 290
• 4x5 Spites 320
• Alarielle 600
• Drycha 280
• 30 Dryads 270
• Treeman 240

Or a no-battalion style

• TLA: Oaken Armour, Regrowth 300
• Alarielle 600
• Drycha 280
• 10 Dryads 100
• 10 Dryads 100
• 10 Dryads 100
• Treeman 240
• Treeman 240

 

I like treemen.

[Mune]

I havent looked into the other factions that much yet, but I think those changes will hurt us very much

[Aezeal]

4 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Bray herd is still Allegiance Brayherd.  So Raiders stay, and Bestigors become BL a la 6th ed BoC book (even with an odd caveat like they did 14 years ago).  

 

 

Ofc stuff became battleline.. but not battleline due to a character w/o that character being the general right? (thinking about the WE hero's)

[DantePQ]

Yeah they will , but I guess Dreadwood army I came up with will be very legit 

And still 

TLA+Gnarled Warrior+ Oaken Armour + Regrowth 

Drycha + Dwellers 

Branchwych + Verdant Blessing, Acorn 

2x5 Tree-Revs

30 Dryads 

3x3 Bows Kurnoths 

Treelord 

looks very, very strong. 

[Aezeal]

3 hours ago, Baz said:

New points

Dryads 100

Tree Revs and Spite Revs 80

Barnchwych and Branchwraith 80

Kurtnoth Hunters are 220

Allarielle 600

Treelord 240

all other units remain the same points cost

Ganrloot is 180

Household is 70

is that 180 including the household.. or 250 to get gnarlroot in total. It seems... excessive.

[Mune]

Its 250 in total.

[DantePQ]

It's 250  

 

I guess a lot will come down to how 30 Dryads work, if they are good to great I'll keep them if not there is possibility to cut them they minimal Battleline which is 60 points cheaper and there is a lot of possibilities Dreadwood being one as it's much more cheaper right know and gives possibility to take 30 Dryads and extra hero, or even Drycha. 

[Aezeal]

47 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yeah they will , but I guess Dreadwood army I came up with will be very legit 

And still 

TLA+Gnarled Warrior+ Oaken Armour + Regrowth 

Drycha + Dwellers 

Branchwych + Verdant Blessing, Acorn 

2x5 Tree-Revs

30 Dryads 

3x3 Bows Kurnoths 

Treelord 

looks very, very strong. 

Not in comparison to our old lists :D. 

I'm still not sure about playing Alarielle at 600.. but I guess we'll have to use something as big hitter now hunters are more expensive. No point drop in Durthu makes me sad. 

Has anyone done math comparing 1 TL at 240 to 3 hunters at 220? I think it would be interesting to see how they compare. 

TL has less wounds but a better save, Hunters have more wounds but a worse save (but WITH acces to cover save AND rerolls): in staying power the hunters still win I guess. But there are some factors here that are harder to put into numbers: I0F you play hunters in gnarlroot they can be revived, ofc regrowth will get more value on the TL. Stomp on TL helps  him ofc.

In damage:

TL

4 x 3+ x 3+ x d6 = 6.22

1 x 3+ x 2+ x 1 = 0.55555

for a total of 6.7777 damage mostly at rend 1

BUT with the possible killing power of the impale attack.

Comparing them to 3 sword hunters (easiest comparison at rend 1 not to mention the best against most saves anyway)

Hunters

4 x 3+ x 3+ x 2 = 3.5555

2 x 2+ x 3+ x 2 = 2.22222

for a total of 5.777777 all at rend 1

However this is at full health and damage drop on the TL is considerable (5 wounds means a drop of 2 of his main attacks so nearly HALF.. and hunters only loose less than 1/3th - champ will survive likely at 6 wounds)

If the hunters are dropping in effectiveness from excellent to acceptable (as mentioned above) then I don't thing the TL will score higher.

 

IMPORTANT EDIT: 

SHOOTING:

5 x 2+ x 3 + x 1 damage at rend 1 (full strength) 2.777 damage every other turn (but maybe a few times extra before engaging?)

 

[Mirage8112]

3 hours ago, Nico said:

Here is a Dreadwood list. It's so so:

Dreadwood 200

Outcasts 90

Spite Revenants 80

Spite Revenants 80

Spite Revenants 80

Spite Revenants 80

Tree Revenants 80

Dryads 100

30 Dryads 270

 

1060

 

Alarielle 600

Bow Hunters 220

Branchwych 80

 

1960

Why include dryads + t-revs? aren't spites battleline now? 

[Allornone]

Spite revenants are always battleline if SYLVANETH allegiance, they don't need Drycha as far as I can tell.

[Aezeal]

12 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

It's 250  

 

I guess a lot will come down to how 30 Dryads work, if they are good to great I'll keep them if not there is possibility to cut them they minimal Battleline which is 60 points cheaper and there is a lot of possibilities Dreadwood being one as it's much more cheaper right know and gives possibility to take 30 Dryads and extra hero, or even Drycha. 

Seems way way way to high. Doubt gnarlroot is worth it now.. I mean yes it are all nice abilities.. but hardly any direct damage all somewhat situatinal and avoidable by good opponents. my current gnarlroot list has 2 x 20 dryads and 5 rev's and a wych which means I will get a 120 point discount on those.. then I have 3 units of hunters and the battalion which go up 120 + 150 = 270 points. (I doubt the loremaster in there will drop in points)

I haven't got a hurricanum yet.. anyone know the price increase on that one? 

Is the household ability worth 70 points??? 

[xanderhansen]

Here is the setup I'm going for [emoji6]

 

 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

 

Heroes

Alarielle the Everqueen (620)

- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth

Spirit of Durthu (400)

- General

- Trait: Gnarled Warrior 

- Artefact: The Oaken Armour 

Drycha Hamadreth (280)

- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing

Knight-Heraldor (120)

Knight-Heraldor (120)

Knight-Heraldor (120)

 

Battleline

5 x Tree-Revenants (100)

- Sylvaneth Battleline

5 x Tree-Revenants (100)

- Sylvaneth Battleline

20 x Dryads (240)

 

Total: 2100/2000

 

With the coming discount it should be 2000 points.

 

Sendt fra min SM-G935F med Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[TinyDino]

3 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Spoiler

 

Not in comparison to our old lists :D. 

I'm still not sure about playing Alarielle at 600.. but I guess we'll have to use something as big hitter now hunters are more expensive. No point drop in Durthu makes me sad. 

Has anyone done math comparing 1 TL at 240 to 3 hunters at 220? I think it would be interesting to see how they compare. 

TL has less wounds but a better save, Hunters have more wounds but a worse save (but WITH acces to cover save AND rerolls): in staying power the hunters still win I guess. But there are some factors here that are harder to put into numbers: I0F you play hunters in gnarlroot they can be revived, ofc regrowth will get more value on the TL. Stomp on TL helps  him ofc.

In damage:

TL

4 x 3+ x 3+ x d6 = 6.22

1 x 3+ x 2+ x 1 = 0.55555

for a total of 6.7777 damage mostly at rend 1

Comparing them to 3 sword hunters (easiest comparison at rend 1 not to mention the best against most saves anyway)

Hunters

4 x 3+ x 3+ x 2 = 3.5555

2 x 2+ x 3+ x 2 = 2.22222

for a total of 5.777777 all at rend 1

However this is at full health and damage drop on the TL is considerable (5 wounds means a drop of 2 of his main attacks so nearly HALF.. and hunters only loose less than 1/3th - champ will survive likely at 6 wounds)

 

 

Those are interesting numbers,  I think with hunters becoming more expensive and tree lords less so the gap has become reasonable. I think Treemen need something like Alarielle to help with the staying power potentially healing D3+D6 on one pressures opponents to commit a lot to bringing one down, rather than just weakening them. The stomp can potentially be a massive boon against bloodletter spam, especially if you can get 2 off.

 

Loremaster is still 100, Hurricanum is now 380.

[xanderhansen]

I have seen that the hurricaneum is 380 points now.

Sendt fra min SM-G935F med Tapatalk

[Aezeal]

Just now, xanderhansen said:

I have seen that the hurricaneum is 380 points now.

Sendt fra min SM-G935F med Tapatalk
 

Hmm 60 extra points... I still think it's worth it and since probably our whole army can fit in the bubble I'll consider getting one. We still can use/ need bow hunters for support character sniping and this one could replace a 2nd or 3th unit to boost the output of our army and ofc the MW and the spell.

[Paul G]

Damn if Spites are battleline Dreadwood could be awesome!


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[Aezeal]

46 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

It's 250  

 

I guess a lot will come down to how 30 Dryads work, if they are good to great I'll keep them if not there is possibility to cut them they minimal Battleline which is 60 points cheaper and there is a lot of possibilities Dreadwood being one as it's much more cheaper right know and gives possibility to take 30 Dryads and extra hero, or even Drycha. 

I'm not really convinced I'll want to replace my 2x20 dryads with something including 30 dryads in one unit. It's already hard to get 20 in melee, usually it's about 15... 10 more bodies will be 10 more inactive bodies I fear, no matter how cheap.. not that appealing.

[Aezeal]

Now my suggestion for an alternative list, it's a BIT just out of the top of my head avoiding stuff with price increases and including stuff with decreases.

- wych        80  with circlet and verdant blessing for FAR FAR range placing of forests.

- Alarielle  600 regrowth

- TLA          300 gnarled warrior, oaken armor

- 30 dryads 300  in 3 x 10  as batteline.

Leaving me 720 points to play with: 

- TL

- TL

- TL

Good targets for Alarielle's ability, save teleporting (hence the wych to place the forest for 3 TL and the TL ancient - but NOT for Alarielle who is th realmroots incarnate... ok.)

Using a moonstone means that if 3 TL show up on 1 side of enemies army (getting forests on 2 sides seems unlikely early in the game) and the enemy moves to intercept (and thus keeps important and vulnerable stuff away from him) the TLA can go ninja on his ass and take that out.

[Mune]

You have less then 720 if you want to use 2 items in your list.

[Aezeal]

6 minutes ago, Mune said:

You have less then 720 if you want to use 2 items in your list.

That is a good point. So use to playing at least one batallion that this hadn't occured to me. I think that IF I try this I'll need the 3 TL (not to mention if all batallions are that expensive there isn't much that can replace it.... 3 hunters means I only have 20 for a batallion... doubt that is possible with the current army. 

Not sure if I should drop the armor/moonstone or the wych's item (but thinking it'll have to be the latter, maybe even dropping the wych completely for another 10 dryads, putting verdant blessing on Alarrielle (she can fly so place it in a good position turn 2 at least) and regrowth on the TLA.

OR using the extra points for Drycha (instead of TLA) and leaving 40 points unused.

 

[TinyDino]

45 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Now my suggestion for an alternative list, it's a BIT just out of the top of my head avoiding stuff with price increases and including stuff with decreases.

- wych        80  with circlet and verdant blessing for FAR FAR range placing of forests.

- Alarielle  600 regrowth

- TLA          300 gnarled warrior, oaken armor

- 30 dryads 300  in 3 x 10  as batteline.

Leaving me 720 points to play with: 

- TL

- TL

- TL

Good targets for Alarielle's ability, save teleporting (hence the wych to place the forest for 3 TL and the TL ancient - but NOT for Alarielle who is th realmroots incarnate... ok.)

Using a moonstone means that if 3 TL show up on 1 side of enemies army (getting forests on 2 sides seems unlikely early in the game) and the enemy moves to intercept (and thus keeps important and vulnerable stuff away from him) the TLA can go ninja on his ass and take that out.

That's too many behemoths unfortunately. Can only have 4, at least in ghb1. Drycha is not a behemoth tho so that could work.

[Aezeal]

Just now, TinyDino said:

That's too many behemoths unfortunately. Can only have 4, at least in ghb1. Drycha is not a behemoth tho so that could work.

Goddammit all that small lettering is ruining my list

She was a Behemoth though in GHB 1.

[TinyDino]

Just now, Aezeal said:

Goddammit all that small lettering is ruining my list

She was a Behemoth though in GHB 1.

True that she is, even now in ghb2. Woops.

[Mirage8112]

Here is the skeleton core of the Alarielle dreadwood alpha strike list @Nico and I came up with a awhile back. Assuming points values are correct. 

The basic premise of the list hasn't changed, and since spites now count for battleline you aren't required to take the 3 units of T-rev's, you actually gives get an extra 130 pts to play around with. More than enough for an extra hero or another unit choice to fiddle around with. 


Allegiance: Order

Heroes
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)

Battleline

Units
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)

9 x Kurnoth Hunters (660)
- Scythes

Battalions
Dreadwood Wargrove (200)
Outcasts (90)

Total: 1870/2000

The original point of building the list this way was the "first turn alpha strike". Dropping ~50 damage into the enemy's front line in the first combat round. 

Truthfully, looking at those numbers now, I don't think it would be unreasonable to decrease the hunter unit to 6 (instead of 9). That would leave an extra 350 points to play around with, and still capable of putting out ~42 damage in the first combat round. 350 points could provide alot of additional support and make the list a lot more flexible than it was. 

Looks like the plan is still on. thoughts?  



 

[Aezeal]

Just now, TinyDino said:

True that she is, even now in ghb2. Woops.

Hmmm that makes things more difficult. 

I've now seen the list of our batallions and their prices are insane. 2 items in this list Even Lords of the Clan which is about as ****** as it get's it now way expensive.

So I guess I WILL be deleting that Wych... AND a TL since Alarielle and TLA are there to stay.

Not sure I still like it then. I could go loremaster and a unit of bow hunters I guess. There is a certain synergy there and the hunter certainly have their uses.