Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[HadrielCaine]

Also @Mirage8112 and @Aezeal really interesting debate. I used to run 2-3 TL in my wanderers list. They were freaking amazing. By running them instead of TLA I saved enough points for more waywatchers. I personally haven't run one in pure Sylvaneth yet. But I do like them. They become a bit of a magnet for shooting and mortal wounds in my experience and don't have the same survivability on the table as 3x Hunters if you have gnarlroot especially.

Ultimately. Its hella good in slot (maybe not AS efficient as KH spam or a TLA) but rule of cool and not running the netlist and still winning games will usually get you soft scores and best game votes (which gnarlroot does not unless you're dropping £20 or more on booze for your opponents every game) so I'm sure it comes out in the wash. @Forestreveries ran so many TLs against me at RAW that I nearly cried. They're definitely great in a list where I also have to deal with SoD or a TLA because they AREN't the primary target so they're more likely to make it into combat.

Just my two pence view.

Beat skaven tonight on three places of power at my club, just FYI fellow Sylvanethers

A

[Aezeal]

30 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

Frankly I think the element of surprise in this list will be huge. If you do get the 4+ roll for realmwalker and you get an aggressive enemy (think BCR) who gets in range of the thunderers, you could in theory generate somewhere between 40-50 wounds (all with rend -1 or -2) in first combat round (And that's only between Durthu and the thunderers.) If you get the second combat round, double that number and add another 8-12 on top for the second treelord. brining the total to 80-110 wounds between the two turns. (this also doesn't count any wounds generated by the revenants who should be able to get into the mix by turn 2.)

Damage might drop 2nd round if Durthu gets a few wounds..(Which is easier vs save 3 than vs save 2 rr 1s) 6 vs d6 will make a big difference. Also he might not be near the forest after his charge which lowers damage too. Would still be a fun list to play I'd guess though and damage output is high.

Wouldn't going MSU on the riggers be better for abilities and champs? 

16 minutes ago, HadrielCaine said:

maybe not AS efficient as KH spam or a TLA

My thoughts.

 

17 minutes ago, HadrielCaine said:

which gnarlroot does not

True, not because I win though but because of long magic phases.

[Mirage8112]

6 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Damage might drop 2nd round if Durthu gets a few wounds..(Which is easier vs save 3 than vs save 2 rr 1s) 6 vs d6 will make a big difference. Also he might not be near the forest after his charge which lowers damage too.

Forests placed centrally are hard to avoid. Especially if the enemy has to go first. Considering our forest is 23" long end to end (two woods) and Durthu's base being almost 4" by itself, it's pretty easy to imagine a scenario where he's actually fighting an enemy 6.5" from a  woods edge, but his base is within 3". That basically gives him a threat range of nearly 37". 

And it is possible Durthu will take a few wounds; but it won't be in the first turn. Even if you don't get the double turn, you still have the Wytch to heal him back to full (or nearly full) health in your next Hero phase. My hope however is that he'll drop enough wounds into whatever his target his, it will be unable to hit back. 
 

6 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Wouldn't going MSU on the riggers be better for abilities and champs? 

In a normal list, yes. But since were only allowed 2 units we can't break them up. And the units really need to be at least that big to put out any significant damage. 

[Forestreveries]

Also [mention=1845]Mirage8112[/mention] and [mention=2588]Aezeal[/mention] really interesting debate. I used to run 2-3 TL in my wanderers list. They were freaking amazing. By running them instead of TLA I saved enough points for more waywatchers. I personally haven't run one in pure Sylvaneth yet. But I do like them. They become a bit of a magnet for shooting and mortal wounds in my experience and don't have the same survivability on the table as 3x Hunters if you have gnarlroot especially.
Ultimately. Its hella good in slot (maybe not AS efficient as KH spam or a TLA) but rule of cool and not running the netlist and still winning games will usually get you soft scores and best game votes (which gnarlroot does not unless you're dropping £20 or more on booze for your opponents every game) so I'm sure it comes out in the wash. [mention=690]Forestreveries[/mention] ran so many TLs against me at RAW that I nearly cried. They're definitely great in a list where I also have to deal with SoD or a TLA because they AREN't the primary target so they're more likely to make it into combat.
Just my two pence view.
Beat skaven tonight on three places of power at my club, just FYI fellow Sylvanethers[emoji4]
A

Haha, I ran Lords of the Clan and Oakenbrow Wargrove against you in an attempt to fill out all my points as I hadn't got much painted, but it was good fun. They did good work because as you'd say, other combats were often more important and so they could strike first often and pull their weight.

Not sure in the viability of a list like that in matched play though, remember I had no battleline in our game so had essentially extra points


Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Forestreveries]

Also [mention=1845]Mirage8112[/mention] and [mention=2588]Aezeal[/mention] really interesting debate. I used to run 2-3 TL in my wanderers list. They were freaking amazing. By running them instead of TLA I saved enough points for more waywatchers. I personally haven't run one in pure Sylvaneth yet. But I do like them. They become a bit of a magnet for shooting and mortal wounds in my experience and don't have the same survivability on the table as 3x Hunters if you have gnarlroot especially.
Ultimately. Its hella good in slot (maybe not AS efficient as KH spam or a TLA) but rule of cool and not running the netlist and still winning games will usually get you soft scores and best game votes (which gnarlroot does not unless you're dropping £20 or more on booze for your opponents every game) so I'm sure it comes out in the wash. [mention=690]Forestreveries[/mention] ran so many TLs against me at RAW that I nearly cried. They're definitely great in a list where I also have to deal with SoD or a TLA because they AREN't the primary target so they're more likely to make it into combat.
Just my two pence view.
Beat skaven tonight on three places of power at my club, just FYI fellow Sylvanethers[emoji4]
A

Haha, I ran Lords of the Clan and Oakenbrow Wargrove against you in an attempt to fill out all my points as I hadn't got much painted, but it was good fun. They did good work because as you'd say, other combats were often more important and so they could strike first often and pull their weight.

Not sure in the viability of a list like that in matched play though, remember I had no battleline in our game so had essentially extra points


Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Cerve]

I was thinking about the 3 TL...then I thought about the Starter. With 3 of them you can build this!

Durthu 400
Durthu 400
Durthu 400
Branchwitch 100
Branchwitch 100
Branchwitch 100  
20 Dryads 240
10 Dryads 120
10 Dryads 120
1980

 

I mean...3 Spirits of Durthu?! Wow, maybe is not competitive but can you immagine the fun? eheh

[Jorthax]

@Mirage8112 Not sure I understand on my revenants? Household is TL + Wych + Revs, and Ironbark requires +1 Revs, and I have two squads? Have I made a mistake? My 3rd battleline is the Ark company to meet requirements (one of the main reasons I took them.

Really like your analysis of the first battlerounds, it does seem very good having the ship deliver the squad and I'll need to relook at that. I don't own treekin so would probably playtest your first list with 15 thundereres and a Frigate slowed down, although that may also cause me issues. Not sure at the moment... I'm glad there seem to be some options around and it's not just a waste!

@HadrielCaine I've been waiting for another Duradin release since I picked Sylvaneth, and one reason I picked them was the crossover list. I'm kind of sad we didn't get a reverse crossover in the Kharadron book and instead they went with the (in my opinion) boring Stormcast. Maybe a Dispossed Duradin release will ally closer with Sylvaneth going forward but that seems weird when warmachines are made from wood (Trees are friends not food?)

I'm going to have to get a couple of battles in to playtest all of this information.

[Mirage8112]

7 hours ago, Jorthax said:

Not sure I understand on my revenants? Household is TL + Wych + Revs, and Ironbark requires +1 Revs, and I have two squads? Have I made a mistake? My 3rd battleline is the Ark company to meet requirements (one of the main reasons I took them.

Ha. yes. You're right. Shows how often I look at the less popular battalions XD. 
 

7 hours ago, Jorthax said:

Really like your analysis of the first battlerounds, it does seem very good having the ship deliver the squad and I'll need to relook at that. I don't own treekin so would probably playtest your first list with 15 thundereres and a Frigate slowed down, although that may also cause me issues. Not sure at the moment... I'm glad there seem to be some options around and it's not just a waste!

I think there's plenty we can do with this battalion since its Duardin and not just Overlords. A thought just occurred to me of using both tunneling heathgaurd and Eddrinriggers, since they both move fairly fast and don't really need the airship. I do think any ground units, thunderers and the Ark company, will need an airship. And since anything more than 10 will overburden the smaller airship, the bigger one might be the best way to go. 

I tend to put together a cohesive plan for the opening moves of the game, so I know how everything will work. How do you see the opening turns going with your list? 

[Aezeal]

I wonder how taking 2 long range battle line units (arks) would work.. They could defend back line objectives. A last battle line unit of 20 dryads (wait revenants for the battalion) could move up and take more advance objectives.

A required TL and wych

AND THEN LOADS OF HUNTERS because they are GOOOOD

[Nico]

Quote

I'm kind of sad we didn't get a reverse crossover in the Kharadron book and instead they went with the (in my opinion) boring Stormcast. 

I agree - this is a kick in the teeth this to Fyreslayer players.

[Mirage8112]

7 hours ago, Nico said:

I agree - this is a kick in the teeth this to Fyreslayer players.

Why? Because to ally with them Fyreslayers would need to give up their awesome allegiance abilities and use the generic ORDER ones? Oh wait....

 

8 hours ago, Aezeal said:

AND THEN LOADS OF HUNTERS because they are GOOOOD

Don't take the bait, don't take the bait, don't take the bait.... lol  

[Cerve]

In my last game I tried the Free Spirits Battalion....and I'm asking now: why no one is playing it?!

It was a true revelation! We are slow, we are really slow. And that movement in the Hero Phase is pure gold. The thing is that you don't need to directly move into the scenery/enemy chosed, you just need to be nearest to it at the end of your movement.

Like, you know, 0,5"...

It was amazing. I tried it with a...can't remember the name, the Forest Folk with +1 Branchwitch (2 ij total), with the +1 to cast, and Drycha (which is AMAZING vs hordes...jeez, 38 death wounds over 49 zombies are great).

You can pair it easely with a Gnarlroot, it brings what's really shine in the book (Hunters and Durthu) and give them a bunch of speed. Is cheap! (40 points? Really?) and of course it brings you an additional artifact.

Try it, really. Maybe is the happiness of the first game with it, but I'm truly satisfied. Anyone tried it before?

[Cerve]

Gnarlroot Wargrove 100 (total)

TLA 300

Branchwitch 100

5 Tree Revenants 100

Free Spirits 40

Spirit of Durthu 400

6 Hunters (scythes) 360

3 Hunters (scythes) 180

3 Hunters (bow) 180

10 Dryads 120

10 Dryads 120

 

total: 2000

 

That's all..

[Nico]

Quote

It was a true revelation! We are slow, we are really slow. And that movement in the Hero Phase is pure gold. The thing is that you don't need to directly move into the scenery/enemy chosed, you just need to be nearest to it at the end of your movement.

Like, you know, 0,5"...

It was amazing. I tried it with a...can't remember the name, the Forest Folk with +1 Branchwitch (2 ij total), with the +1 to cast, and Drycha (which is AMAZING vs hordes...jeez, 38 death wounds over 49 zombies are great).

You can pair it easely with a Gnarlroot, it brings what's really shine in the book (Hunters and Durthu) and give them a bunch of speed. Is cheap! (40 points? Really?) and of course it brings you an additional artifact.

Try it, really. Maybe is the happiness of the first game with it, but I'm truly satisfied. Anyone tried it before?

I don't see how this Battalion is barely ever useful (after the nerf) since the movement happens in the hero phase - before using Navigate Realmroots. Moving 5" and then another 5" in the movement phase doesn't get you any closer to the enemy than Navigating to a Wyldwood and being 9" away. 

[Cerve]

2 hours ago, Nico said:

I don't see how this Battalion is barely ever useful (after the nerf) since the movement happens in the hero phase - before using Navigate Realmroots. Moving 5" and then another 5" in the movement phase doesn't get you any closer to the enemy than Navigating to a Wyldwood and being 9" away. 

Because anyone can just walk around your Wyldwoods and cover easely that 9".

Deny the realmroots is just too easy. This Battalion helps you a lot into the mid-late game, where the enemy is supposed to cover the objective-site of the game. Belive me, just try it with a plan in mind.

[Aezeal]

13 hours ago, Nico said:

I don't see how this Battalion is barely ever useful (after the nerf) since the movement happens in the hero phase - before using Navigate Realmroots. Moving 5" and then another 5" in the movement phase doesn't get you any closer to the enemy than Navigating to a Wyldwood and being 9" away. 

Well.. if you play with a decent number of terrain and big pieces (like.. GW pieces) then placing woods can be hard. If you roll up one side of the enemy you still have to get to the other side.. and movement is always good.

[Aezeal]

BTW is there someplace where we could ask GW to make a riderless forestdragon sylvaneth allegiance? (or request  Branchwych dragon riders?)

[Azurious]

Free spirits is good defensively as it greatly increases your threat range for defending held positions. I would agree with the above that offensively being able to navigate the wyldwoods is stronger. I Still think it has some strong uses.

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[Nick Dicehammer]

Hello - I am looking for general tactical advice on how to deal with mixed Destruction (Kunning Ruk mixed with Stonehorns/Thundertusks) and Tzeentch. Was that covered somewhere previously in this thread? My local meta is dominated by those two builds, and I found that I had a hard time cracking both. 

[Cerve]

14 hours ago, Azurious said:

Free spirits is good defensively as it greatly increases your threat range for defending held positions. I would agree with the above that offensively being able to navigate the wyldwoods is stronger. I Still think it has some strong uses.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

More than defensively/offensively, is a matter of early/mid-late game. I don't know you guys, but Navigate is easely denied around 2-3 turn, when is pretty useful into the first turn. As opponent, is so easy to cover that 9" bubble over the wildwoods, and my opponets plays like that. Rushing for objectives, defending the ours, simply move by 10" is great.

 

Don't know how you can Navigate so well. 

[HadrielCaine]

2 hours ago, Cerve said:

More than defensively/offensively, is a matter of early/mid-late game. I don't know you guys, but Navigate is easely denied around 2-3 turn, when is pretty useful into the first turn. As opponent, is so easy to cover that 9" bubble over the wildwoods, and my opponets plays like that. Rushing for objectives, defending the ours, simply move by 10" is great.

 

Don't know how you can Navigate so well. 

To be honest. In my tournament experience. Especially under SCGT comp or anywhere that involve some players placing terrain... you're not going to be able to place many wildwood and Navigate is way less powerful than you might imagine. 

 

I actually think Free Spirits is almost essential in this context for the exact reasons @Cerve states. 

Any decent players at matched play events will measure out and deploy in a way that stops the placement of Wild woods and many table tops don't  even have the requisite space to drop your free wood!

Free Spirits is great as a result, as otherwise our movement is severely limited. Particularly with sky fires and vanguard palladors, Sayl the faithless, tunnelif teams, destruction moves etc. 

[Pistol44]

Hi there! A noob here, I've read the entire topic and first I would like to thank you for your wisdom and your multiple replies!

 

We are starting "Path to Glory" in our local store with some extra rules:

1) Initial Followers' sizes are half the maximum unit size from GH. (15 Dryads instead of 5 Dryads, 6 Kurnoth Hunters instead of 3...) 

2) Artifacts and command traits: You can choose ONE of the champions Artifact OR command Trait, the other one is rolled. Artifacts generated by warscrolls are also random. 

3) When our "initial followers" are completely destroyed they are replaced with the same unit without any reward.

 

So there is my initial thought on that:

TLA: I would choose Oaken Armour and let the fate select my command trait (I can use ORDER traitsfrom GH also)

4 followers:

- 15 Dryads

- Branchwych

- 10 Tree-Rev

- 6 Kurnoth Hunters (can't choose between Swords/Scythes)

Household Battalion and Gnarlroot

 

My two questions are: 

1- Swords over Scythes?

2- Briarsheath over Oaken armour? This is very important because we select/roll for our command traits and artifacts for the whole campaign.

 

Thank you all for your knowledge!

 

P.D: I'm so sorry for my English!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kaylethia]

51 minutes ago, HadrielCaine said:

Any decent players at matched play events will measure out and deploy in a way that stops the placement of Wild woods and many table tops don't  even have the requisite space to drop your free wood!

Do players really hate Sylvaneth that much? I've seen a few other references to stuff like this, along with the idea that Sylvaneth players will fill out their army with Hunters, spam you off the board with shooting and Wyldwoods. And at the same time, in my limited experience, it seems more like a hateboner for what Sylvaneth can possibly do if you roll like a god. Granted, in a tournament setting you do what you can to maximize your chances of winning, but this feels like a very ****** move.

How have you worked around that kind of stuff happening? 

[swarmofseals]

9 hours ago, Pistol44 said:

 

My two questions are: 

1- Swords over Scythes?

2- Briarsheath over Oaken armour? This is very important because we select/roll for our command traits and artifacts for the whole campaign.

1 - The answer isn't clear. Swords are better against anything with a save worse than 3+, they are tied against 3+ and Scythes are better against 2+. That said, the extra range on the Scythes does matter. In your case, however, I might consider going with swords because you are basically guaranteed to be going up against a fair amount of basic troops due to the rules of the league, and swords shine against those.

2 - I would probably go with Briarsheath. Oaken Armor is really good when combined with Gnarled Warrior, but you can't guarantee getting that. There is so much stuff out there now that gets bonuses from good hit rolls and Briarsheath is great at negating those bonuses, particularly against shooting. 

[Aezeal]

7 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

1 - The answer isn't clear. Swords are better against anything with a save worse than 3+, they are tied against 3+ and Scythes are better against 2+. That said, the extra range on the Scythes does matter. In your case, however, I might consider going with swords because you are basically guaranteed to be going up against a fair amount of basic troops due to the rules of the league, and swords shine against those.

2 - I would probably go with Briarsheath. Oaken Armor is really good when combined with Gnarled Warrior, but you can't guarantee getting that. There is so much stuff out there now that gets bonuses from good hit rolls and Briarsheath is great at negating those bonuses, particularly against shooting. 

1. agreed

2. I think the +1 save from oaken armor is great always. 3+ or 2+ makes a big difference against whatever rend you face. However I think the briarsheath is good too.. really a coin flip for me.

About the starting units: If you don't have to take points/battleline into account or ANYTHING else.. you should (if you have the models and if you want to go all out) just go 6 hunters for all follower slots. 2 bows and 2 swords will REALLY be way stronger than anything else (I mean just look at the points comparison). (I probably don't understand this part of the campaign rules though).