Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Nico]

According to an answer on the FB page, you can still use the deploy off the table abilities in that scenario (so those units ignore the deployment rules of the battleplan itself).

[Forestreveries]

5 hours ago, TheRealZen said:

It's more the "a" at the start of the sentence than the "or" that is confusing me. "A" means singular.

Dont get me wrong, I would love to be able to cast more spells.

It should really say "Any" instead of "A" to be clear but I believe that all of them will get the extra spell and unbind per turn.  It is interesting to me that it lists the three model types... I guess the reason it doesn't just say "Gnarlroot *Wizard* " is because the 0-1 Order Wizard allowed by the Batallion doesn't get the benefit. 

 

Aaron

[Forestreveries]

3 hours ago, Nico said:

According to an answer on the FB page, you can still use the deploy off the table abilities in that scenario (so those units ignore the deployment rules of the battleplan itself).

Good to know! I've been playing it the other way so far. If it is indeed ruled that way that's much better for us Sylvaneth Players

 

Aaron

[TheRealZen]

9 hours ago, Antipodean7 said:

But if you remove the "a" then it becomes ambiguous suggesting that you can only cast two spells even if you have 4 casters (for example). 

 

Just on on my phone so hard to find an example at the moment, but I understand it to be widely accepted that you can cast two spells per caster (not just one caster) with the battalion.

Ok sounds good to me. Just needed the come back position if my opponent chooses this stance.

On a similar slant the Dreadwood Wargrove battalion under Ambush again says "A Dreadwood unit can be ...", is this one or all?

[Nico]

Quote

On a similar slant the Dreadwood Wargrove battalion under Ambush again says "A Dreadwood unit can be ...", is this one or all?

Reading that one in context, (cf. the Sneak Attack rule immediately below it), they clearly mean a single unit in that case.

[Forestreveries]

39 minutes ago, TheRealZen said:

Ok sounds good to me. Just needed the come back position if my opponent chooses this stance.

On a similar slant the Dreadwood Wargrove battalion under Ambush again says "A Dreadwood unit can be ...", is this one or all?

Ha. Well you got me, because in that situation I do believe it means one single unit

Under Ironbark It says specifically One Ironbark Hero.

 

its inconsistent. I think you just have to use common sense and interpret the wording as best makes sense to you.

I realise that is a super confusing stance to have ....But I can't really give any other reason than that is just my own interpretation of GW's intent in those instances. Perhaps that does need clearing up?

 

 

 

Aaron

[scrubyandwells]

28 minutes ago, Nico said:

Reading that one in context, (cf. the Sneak Attack rule immediately below it), they clearly mean a single unit in that case.

Just pinged GW @ their AoS Fb page. Hopefully they'll clarify whether they intended 1 Dreadwood unit or any Dreadwood units for the Ambush ability.

[Siegfried VII]

9 hours ago, Nico said:

According to an answer on the FB page, you can still use the deploy off the table abilities in that scenario (so those units ignore the deployment rules of the battleplan itself).

Is it an official answer?

[scrubyandwells]

21 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

Is it an official answer?

Yeah, it was in response to a question that I posted. 

[Antipodean7]

Interested in thoughts on deployment.  In particular, the pros and cons of deploying in the spirit paths.  The analysis may change depending on the scenario (for example, Escalation). 

Pros - avoiding being shot, ability to deploy anywhere on the table near a wood

Cons - can't use command abilities, spells or other methods of generating woods while off the table, so in Matched Play you are likely to only have one wood on the table (so your point of arrival is predictable).

[scrubyandwells]

Had a rough 1,000pt game this evening experimenting with Tree-Revenants and magic. 

[9/4/16: I misread Gnarlroot Wargrove and accidentally took two Deepwood spells per Sylvaneth Wizard. It's only one.]

My list:

Treelord Ancient (300)
  Gnarled Warrior (Command Trait)
  Briarsheath (Artefact of Power)
  Regrowth (Deepwood Spell)
  The Dwellers Below (Deepwood Spell)
Branchwych (100)
  The Silverwood Circlet (Artefact)
  Verdant Blessing (Deepwood Spell)
  The Reaping (Deepwood Spell)
Branchwych (100)
  Throne of Vines (Deepwood Spell)
  Verdant Blessing (Deepwood Spell)
  Ranu’s Lamentiri (Artefact)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (80)
  Verdurous Harmony (Deepwood Spell)
Household Battalion (20)

Opponent's list: 

Waywatcher
20 Glade Guard
10 Lothern Sea Guard (or maybe 20)
10 Executioners
10 Dryads
5 Ellyrian Rangers

We played Blood and Glory. In summary:

1. I made the mistake of taking Verdant Blessing (twice). The Tree-Revenants don't gain much advantage from Wyldwoods, and the scenario and my opponent's model count vs my own meant that I had to play defensively to have a chance at holding onto my objectives. 

2. Since heavy defense was required, teleporting some Tree-Revenants to charge his 20 Glade Guard and Waywatcher wasn't viable. His shooters were taking full advantage of their range. They tore into me. 

3. The shooting especially did a lot of damage given the Tree-Revenants' fragility (1 wound and 5+ base save). 

4. He used his Glade Guard's -3 rend ability (one-time use) to terrifying effect against the Treelord Ancient, which negated Gnarled Warrior (ignore -1 rend). 

5. If Tree-Revenants were hitting on a 3+, their fragility and overall point cost could be forgiven. Alas, they hit on a 4+, which is just disheartening for such a fragile, expensive, small unit. It was eye opening how little damage they managed. 

6. Magic is finicky (...surprise). I failed a lot of 5+ and 6+ casts. Even if the rolls had been better, I didn't have or create enough opportunities to use the offensive spells (The Reaping, The Dwellers Below, Awakening the Wood, Unleash Spites, and Arcane Bolt). I played too defensively with the Branchwychs in particular.

While only five games into playtesting, the Tree-Revenants are having a hard time so far carrying their weight, given their cost and the other available options. 

[Forestreveries]

1 hour ago, scrubyandwells said:

5. If Tree-Revenants were hitting on a 3+, their fragility and overall point cost could be forgiven. Alas, they hit on a 4+, which is just disheartening for such a fragile, expensive, small unit. It was eye opening how little damage they managed. 

While only five games into playtesting, the Tree-Revenants are having a hard time so far carrying their weight, given their cost and the other available options. 

I tend to agree on both points.

A 4+ save or needing 3+ to hit would go a long way to fixing them. 

Hiwever, atm they have not felt worth their points in any of my games. 

Can see use of one unit as a wizard / support character scalpel, but 5 of them couldn't even take 10 clanrats off an objective in my last game. If they were around  120-180 for 10 of them I'd be much happier. 

Though im not sure 10 of them could break 20-30 clanrats any better!

Although I love the models, Tree Revenants just aren't doing it for me. Much rather have the bodies and resilience of Dryads sitting / teleporting on the objectives  and let my heavy hitters do the dirty work. 

 

Aaron. 

[Zen]

1 hour ago, scrubyandwells said:

Had a rough 1,000pt game this evening experimenting with Tree-Revenants and magic. 

My list:

Treelord Ancient (300)
  Gnarled Warrior (Command Trait)
  Briarsheath (Artefact of Power)
  Regrowth (Deepwood Spell)
  The Dwellers Below (Deepwood Spell)
Branchwych (100)
  The Silverwood Circlet (Artefact)
  Verdant Blessing (Deepwood Spell)
  The Reaping (Deepwood Spell)
Branchwych (100)
  Throne of Vines (Deepwood Spell)
  Verdant Blessing (Deepwood Spell)
  Ranu’s Lamentiri (Artefact)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Tree-Revenants x5 (100)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (80)
  Verdurous Harmony (Deepwood Spell)
Household Battalion (20)

 

How are you getting 2 deepwood spells for the spellcasters?

re: tree revenants: do you feel like they'd be better in groups of 10? 

[Forestreveries]

10 minutes ago, Zen said:

How are you getting 2 deepwood spells for the spellcasters? 

Good point! 

 

Gnarlroot allows you to cast and unbind an additional spell per turn but it doesn't actually let you generate an additional one from the Deepwood Lore (you get Verdurous Harmony). 

 

Aaron

[scrubyandwells]

31 minutes ago, Forestreveries said:

Good point! 

 

Gnarlroot allows you to cast and unbind an additional spell per turn but it doesn't actually let you generate an additional one from the Deepwood Lore (you get Verdurous Harmony). 

 

Aaron

Thanks for the catch, guys. I totally misread the Gnarlroot Wargrove, thinking it gives you an extra spell from the Deepwood Spell Lore. Thankfully it didn't make much of a difference in the game.

[scrubyandwells]

44 minutes ago, Zen said:

re: tree revenants: do you feel like they'd be better in groups of 10? 

Yeah probably. I wanted to test out MSU + getting 5 champions with their +2 attacks each. Ultimately, though (from a matched / competitive play standpoint), I'm just concerned that the efficiency gap is too pronounced between Dryads and Tree-Revenants...

[Siegfried VII]

I still haven't played a game with my Sylvaneth so far, but indeed the Tree-Revenants seem to be sub-par.

In my opinion they can work mainly as wizard assasination units. You teleport them behind enemy lines and use their re-roll to charge the target and hopefully kill him. And the teleportation ability is the reason for their high cost.

Do they worth it? Not sure, but I think in order for us to have a good idea we have to see them in games where their teleportation abilities come to play...

[scrubyandwells]

3 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

I still haven't played a game with my Sylvaneth so far, but indeed the Tree-Revenants seem to be sub-par.

In my opinion they can work mainly as wizard assasination units. You teleport them behind enemy lines and use their re-roll to charge the target and hopefully kill him. And the teleportation ability is the reason for their high cost.

Do they worth it? Not sure, but I think in order for us to have a good idea we have to see them in games where their teleportation abilities come to play...

Fair points, thanks! 

Hoping to also playtest a Dryad- and Hunter-heavy list soon, e.g., 20 Dryads x3, 3 Kurnoth Hunters x4, Spirit of Durthu, Branchwych, and the Free Spirits battalion. 

[scrubyandwells]

Received a great comment on Fb from Frank Krifka:

It seems to me after reading the report, the comments, and looking at the list, that your unit synergy wasn't totally optimal. 

Even though you can take tree revenants as battle line, I don't think they are the right unit to fill your battleline slots. They don't have much staying power. They do have a place in matched play I think, but either in small units of 5 that hide out of sight and then use their waypipes to snag objectives. Or alternatively in groups on 10 that again hide out of sight then teleport to take out backfield wizards or warmachines. 

Dryads on the other hand are amazing tarpits/anvils when bunkered in a wildwood. They should take up at least 1 of your batteline slots.

I still think Sylvaneth are one of the most brutal armies in matched play, but it really depends on how you use them. They should not be a footslogging army. In fact, they should spend the entire game moving from cover to cover, especially if you have the ability to put new woods on table. To fair, it sounds like your rolls went pretty poorly, maybe take throne of vines next time? 

Lastly, a 1k game is pretty tight for points. I'm not entirely sure about taking battalions at that point level, same for the Treelord ancient. 23 models vs 53 is a major disadvantage. By contrast if you took:

20 Dryads. 240pts
10 Tree Revenants 200

...and my my follow up:

Hi Frank, thanks for the awesome feedback. I'll follow up with more soon, but real quick: Yeah this list was intentionally very sub-optimal, as I wanted to test out an admittedly extreme case of going heavy on Tree-Revenants as battleline + heavy on magic + 100pts on a battalion, with all of that in the context of 1,000pts. 

So on multiple fronts, the list was highly non-optimal. I just wanted to get a first look at what it's like running Tree-Revenants and magic without much else. 

I hope you're right that a reasonable # of Tree-Revenants can find a place in different-sized games, and that they can earn their points by performing specific roles better than other Sylvaneth units. 

Tree-Revenants are definitely a finesse unit, and personally I'm too tactically clumsy at the moment, but hopefully that'll change over time.

[Nico]

GW FB have clarified the 

Quote

Ambush ability in the Sylvaneth's Dreadwood Wargrove can be used by any Dreadwood units, or only a single Dreadwood unit?

 

 

Quote

Warhammer Age of Sigmar Hey Tyler,
We play it as one unit.

We’ll pass it along to the rules guys, in case they want to address this in future.

 

This doesn't really help with the Gnarlroot Wargrove query. I personally still think that the context implies that they means "a Gnarlwood Wizard" means "any wizard" in the Gnarlroot Wargrove (because it's using Gnarlwood in an adjectival sense and talking about wizards having an ability throughout the game); whereas the Ambush ability is talking about a once per game deployment ability, where "a unit" has now been clarified to "one unit".

Not ideal for clarity. 

[scrubyandwells]

5 hours ago, Nico said:

This doesn't really help with the Gnarlroot Wargrove query. I personally still think that the context implies that they means "a Gnarlwood Wizard" means "any wizard" in the Gnarlroot Wargrove (because it's using Gnarlwood in an adjectival sense and talking about wizards having an ability throughout the game); whereas the Ambush ability is talking about a once per game deployment ability, where "a unit" has now been clarified to "one unit".

Not ideal for clarity. 

Thanks @Nico, I just replied to the same thread asking for clarity. Personally I do hope it's more than one can cast an extra spell, otherwise Gnarlroot Wargrove doesn't seem nearly as valuable, especially at 80pts + the 20pts you have to spend on the Household.

[MidasKiss]

Seems to be a theme for these lists that they are lacking on models. I'm curious what people's 1000 and 2000 point model heavy lists would look like?

For 1000 points, I guess you could run something like
- Branchwynch (100)
- 30 Dryads (360)
- 20 Dryads (240)
- 5 Tree Revenants (100)
- 3 Kurnoth Hunters (180)
Total - 980 points, 59 models. Could swap out the revenants for another 10 dryads but i feel like even just to teleport onto objectives the revenants are probably worth a go.

Outside of theory though, I don't see myself not using the Treelord Ancient model that comes with the starter kit, and am glad I don't have to paint that many models to play a fun 1000 points. I love seeing everyone's thoughts and lists, I'm curious how many kurnoth hunters you could fit into a good 1000 points list haha.

[scrubyandwells]

4 hours ago, MidasKiss said:

For 1000 points, I guess you could run something like
- Branchwynch (100)
- 30 Dryads (360)
- 20 Dryads (240)
- 5 Tree Revenants (100)
- 3 Kurnoth Hunters (180)
Total - 980 points, 59 models. Could swap out the revenants for another 10 dryads but i feel like even just to teleport onto objectives the revenants are probably worth a go.

Outside of theory though, I don't see myself not using the Treelord Ancient model that comes with the starter kit, and am glad I don't have to paint that many models to play a fun 1000 points. I love seeing everyone's thoughts and lists, I'm curious how many kurnoth hunters you could fit into a good 1000 points list haha.

That's an interesting 1K list re: 59 models. Might have to test that out sometime.

Yeah I'd like to start playtesting heavier-model-count lists.

Re: how many Kurnoths in 1K, I think you top out at nine:

Branchwych (100)
20 Dryads (240)
10 Dryads (120)
3 Kurnoth Hunters (180)
3 Kurnoth Hunters (180)
3 Kurnoth Hunters (180)

That looks like a pretty tough 1K.

[Forestreveries]

So I just got back from Rain of Stars. It was awesome!

Super happy to have great games vs great opponents. Managed to win all my games as well and finished up second place overall. Super chuffed.

I only lost out on first place due to softscore TPs for painting nomination.  

 

Really happy with with that result, had no expectation of doing that well, I actually won my last game (extremely narrowly) on table 1 in the last round.

 

The event followed General's Handbook Matched Play with a few exceptions;

(no Battleline requirements and sideboard being the most notable)

Alarielle (Regrowth)

Spirit of Durthu (Briarsheath)

Drycha Hamadreth (Verdant Blessing)

Branchwych (Verdant Blessing)

20 Dryads

6 Kurnoth Hunters (Greatbows [that were actually great!])

5 Tree Revenants

 

This left me the choice between the Revenants and the Branchwych depending on the mission. 

 

As as promised I will put up a new thread with detailed battle reports and thoughts on the army but for now suffice to say that I am impressed with how the army performed!

 

Aaron

[MidasKiss]

11 minutes ago, Forestreveries said:

So I just got back from Rain of Stars. It was awesome!

Super happy to have great games vs great opponents. Managed to win all my games as well and finished up second place overall. Super chuffed.

I only lost out on first place due to softscore TPs for painting nomination.  

 

Really happy with with that result, had no expectation of doing that well, I actually won my last game (extremely narrowly) on table 1 in the last round.

 

The event followed General's Handbook Matched Play with a few exceptions;

(no Battleline requirements and sideboard being the most notable)

Alarielle (Regrowth)

Spirit of Durthu (Briarsheath)

Drycha Hamadreth (Verdant Blessing)

Branchwych (Verdant Blessing)

20 Dryads

6 Kurnoth Hunters (Greatbows [that were actually great!])

5 Tree Revenants

 

This left me the choice between the Revenants and the Branchwych depending on the mission. 

 

As as promised I will put up a new thread with detailed battle reports and thoughts on the army but for now suffice to say that I am impressed with how the army performed!

 

Aaron

@Forestreveries that's an awesome result. It's good to see the Greatbows performing, they are my favourite looking out of the 3 options (though they all look great). Did you find they got engaged in combat quickly?

I'm curious how the tournament handled the Wyldwoods, was it 1-3 models allowed per wood or did they house rule it? Regardless, how many of the woods did you find you could actually get down with the Verdant Blessing spell throughout the game?

Lastly, when taking a named character is there any reason not to make Durthu or etc the general so that you get the bonus command trait?

Looking forward to reading your battle report! This thread is great.