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Let's Chat Sylvaneth


scrubyandwells

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Goodness. So much complaining. 

For anybody who is complaining about the new complexity of AoS; did you ever play WHFB? How about 7th edition 40k? Infinity? By extension all those rule sets are literally hundreds and hundreds of pages long. Plus the codexes, expansions, rules in separate publications (White Dwarf), special inserts, tournament packs ect ect. Even with the (relatively small) changes we've been previewed so far AoS 2.0 orwhatevertheyrecallingit the complexity of the ruleset is nowhere near the size of the other big names in the tabletop community. 

Also, if you want to introduce newcomers to the game, open play is probably the best way to do that. Thats pretty much the basic reason it exists; it's AoS's version of "casual play". What you are asking for is basically 2 separate matched play variants. Which is dumb. There is nothing that says a persons first game of AoS needs to be exactly 2k points with fully painted competitive army. In fact, that's probably the absolute worst thing you could do to introduce a new player to the game; even in the current ruleset. They pick a handful of models they like, you pick a handful of models that are relatively comparable (you should know this by now) and you roll some dice. Quick, easy and simple. Then you can introduce them to matched play with objectives once they get a bit further along. 

For those of you complaining about the cost of wyldwoods (what Sylvaneth player wants to limit woods? That's like Tzneetch player asking for less magic in the game...). If somebody wants to play a cheap army they need one with low model count like beastclaw raiders. But, in general we don't play this hobby because it's cheap, we play it because it's awesome and the models are gorgeous. Between the paints, models, books, dice, cards ect ect it's pretty easy to drop $500-$600 dollars on a fully completed army. That's just what the hobby is. I'm an artist by trade and I know that everybody complains about prices. It gets on my nerves. So, if you want to complain about the price of models/scenery here's my advice: find another hobby. 

The biggest changes this edition is to summoning and I'm personally glad to see it. I actually expected them to make some changes to summoning since GHB2017 was announced, because reenforcement points is a lazy unthematic way to handle summoning. The previewed changes leave me with lots of questions, but it looks to me to be an interesting mechanic and hopefully one that will dovetail well into the game system. Players should be able to summon models, and earning in-game currency through sound tactical decisions is a good way to do it. 

All in all, wait till we have all the info before complaining about how its going to ****** everything up. And for Gods sake don't introduce AoS to new players through matched play....

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AoS is so streamlined in comparison to what fantasy was that it's just laughable to call it inaccessasble to newcomers.. most of us got into fantasy at one time without problems so kids now can get into AoS too  I'd say. Not saying AoS strats at top level are less difficult to pull off but the basic gameplay is very accessable.

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Like I said war scrolls are rules anyone who says it’s just 4 pages is burying their head in the sand. AoS when combined is hundreds of pages of rules and they are not collected together into one place and they do change much more drequently with every release.. AoS is a very simple game at its core but with so many warscrolls it becomes very complicated to manage in the wider stream of tournaments due to the number of armies your facing. New players don’t face that assuming they don’t dive into tournaments. Calling people dumb for sharing an opinion is abuse so please be polite and less eager in your responses. Everyone’s point of view is valid and only they can tell you how they feel. New players need structure to the game and open play doesn’t have any so they often dive into matched play as a result. Plus matched play tones down a lot of the excesses of the game, excesses which again can put new players off when they try open play. I speak from experience and the new players I’m talking about aren’t  kids with no experience of games, don’t forget there are a lot of old wfb players out there returning to the game and to them AoS is new and many of my friends shared their opinions with me when they tried it out, many didn’t like it for various reasons and chose to play games like play bolt action or other games with fewer factions and excesses instead. I’m not condemning AoS, I like it. I don’t think v2.0 is a big changes and from what I read I like most of the changes.  I still have an opinion to share though so don’t shut people down when they air it after all I’ve earned it after 30 yrs of spending my money and time on GW products. I’m a fan that’s all.

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3 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Like I said war scrolls are rules anyone who says it’s just 4 pages is burying their head in the sand. AoS when combined is hundreds of pages of rules and they are not collected together into one place and they do change much more drequently with every release.. AoS is a very simple game at its core but with so many warscrolls it becomes very complicated to manage in the wider stream of tournaments due to the number of armies your facing.


Warscrolls are rules. You're right. They're also less than a page long, (most are only about 1/4 of a page in text). If you ever played the previous incarnation of WHFB, you'll remember they had warscrolls too. They were sometimes two pages long and could be found in the codex books that accompanied the main rule book which was 427 pages long). If you combined ALL the warscrolls in AoS into one book, it would probably be 200 pages. If you combined all the codexes and rules books and supplements and expansions for WHFB, you'd easily get into 1000 pages. 22 armies books (counting End Times combined forces, 17 if not) at about 50-60 pages apiece is 935 pages for the regular armies and the 5 end times books brings that to 1435 pages, and thats not even counting the core rule book... 

You don't know what your talking about when you call AoS a "complicated" rule set.  

 

3 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Calling people dumb for sharing an opinion is abuse so please be polite and less eager in your responses. Everyone’s point of view is valid and only they can tell you how they feel.


I'm not calling you dumb for stating an opinion. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and entitled to share it. It is also possible to have a dumb opinion. An opinion that ignores basic facts is dumb, like saying the earth is flat or that cilantro tastes bad. If your opinion is that AoS's matched play should be divided into two rulesets, that is a dumb opinion. AoS already has a simplified version of the game called "open play". Complicating matters by adding another rule set to simplify the game where a simpler version exists is double work, unnecessary and dumb

 

3 hours ago, WABBIT said:

New players need structure to the game and open play doesn’t have any so they often dive into matched play as a result. Plus matched play tones down a lot of the excesses of the game, excesses which again can put new players off when they try open play. I speak from experience and the new players I’m talking about aren’t  kids with no experience of games, don’t forget there are a lot of old wfb players out there returning to the game and to them AoS is new and many of my friends shared their opinions with me when they tried it out, many didn’t like it for various reasons and chose to play games like play bolt action or other games with fewer factions and excesses instead.


New players will likely be introduced to the game by experience players. There shouldn't be an "excesses" in open play if your are the one introducing AoS to new players. Are you chain summoning Lords of Change to show them how you can destroy them in a single game turn? Did you choose Nagash as your "one model" to play against their 10 halberdiers? If so; stop it. 

If they are experienced players who really need that security blanket of "structure", then you can introduce them to AoS through matched play, but maybe start at 500 pts. At that level, the complexity (lol) of AoS shouldn't be an issue. 

 

3 hours ago, WABBIT said:

I’m not condemning AoS, I like it. I don’t think v2.0 is a big changes and from what I read I like most of the changes.  I still have an opinion to share though so don’t shut people down when they air it after all I’ve earned it after 30 yrs of spending my money and time on GW products. I’m a fan that’s all.


Firstly, I didn't say you weren't a fan. I'm glad to hear you like AoS; I like it too. And you're always entitled to share your opinion; absolutely. But when you do, others are free to comment on it. If you don't want opinions about your opinions, then don't share them. My "dumb" comment was not directed at you personally, but rather at your opinion that AoS requires a 4th mode of play; 3 is plenty. 

Secondly, I personally think these upcoming changes will be huge. The changes to summoning alone will really effect how 1/4 of the armies play (mostly death and Chaos). Stack command abilities will really change things o the tabletop, since with enough spells/command abitiles even chaff units can become suddenly terrifying. There's a bunch of other changes that I think will be extremely impactful on the game flow as well. This isn't a minor tweak to the game; that was GHB2017. This is a fundamental redesign of some major game mechanics and I think the game will be markedly different come June. 

 

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In my opinions new rules Are alweys welcome. As a matches played player I love the competition around the game. I don't like narrative or skirmish game. About competitive I love when a player has to take decisions . I wanna play a game where my choice can change my battle and dice roll is not so important. I love new command ability mechanic for exemple. I'm curious about future changes:)  

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6 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Like I said war scrolls are rules anyone who says it’s just 4 pages is burying their head in the sand. AoS when combined is hundreds of pages of rules and they are not collected together into one place and they do change much more drequently with every release.. AoS is a very simple game at its core but with so many warscrolls it becomes very complicated to manage in the wider stream of tournaments due to the number of armies your facing. New players don’t face that assuming they don’t dive into tournaments. Calling people dumb for sharing an opinion is abuse so please be polite and less eager in your responses. Everyone’s point of view is valid and only they can tell you how they feel. New players need structure to the game and open play doesn’t have any so they often dive into matched play as a result. Plus matched play tones down a lot of the excesses of the game, excesses which again can put new players off when they try open play. I speak from experience and the new players I’m talking about aren’t  kids with no experience of games, don’t forget there are a lot of old wfb players out there returning to the game and to them AoS is new and many of my friends shared their opinions with me when they tried it out, many didn’t like it for various reasons and chose to play games like play bolt action or other games with fewer factions and excesses instead. I’m not condemning AoS, I like it. I don’t think v2.0 is a big changes and from what I read I like most of the changes.  I still have an opinion to share though so don’t shut people down when they air it after all I’ve earned it after 30 yrs of spending my money and time on GW products. I’m a fan that’s all.

You don't need 100's of pages to play a game. The 4 pages and your own warscrolls are all you need for a fun game. Maybe the FAQ's but most of those are more explanations fo stuff that is obvious for most people not trying to break the rules (though there are a few that are different).

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Hello!

Looking to start the tree people for AoS 2.0. I have been lurking around and reading the comments. I really like the sylvaneth aesthetic, cant wait to paint my war grove up.

I have a couple of questions. 

A good number of citadel woods to purchase. I was thinking around 5, and already have 3, but just wanted some informed opinions.

Treelords. Are they any good? No lists seem to mention them at all... its TLA, Durthu, or bust. Does the poor basic Treeman have a place?

Any good recipes for pink? I really like the peach/ cherry blossom look (I want my Durthu and Hunters to have the straw kung fu hats... I was thinking of making them out of the citadel woods leaves...)

Any experience using foliage flock for model train trees on sylvaneth? Or is it too much?

Thanks for any and all help.

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10 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:


Warscrolls are rules. You're right. They're also less than a page long, (most are only about 1/4 of a page in text). If you ever played the previous incarnation of WHFB, you'll remember they had warscrolls too. They were sometimes two pages long and could be found in the codex books that accompanied the main rule book which was 427 pages long). If you combined ALL the warscrolls in AoS into one book, it would probably be 200 pages. If you combined all the codexes and rules books and supplements and expansions for WHFB, you'd easily get into 1000 pages. 22 armies books (counting End Times combined forces, 17 if not) at about 50-60 pages apiece is 935 pages for the regular armies and the 5 end times books brings that to 1435 pages, and thats not even counting the core rule book... 

You don't know what your talking about when you call AoS a "complicated" rule set.  

 


I'm not calling you dumb for stating an opinion. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and entitled to share it. It is also possible to have a dumb opinion. An opinion that ignores basic facts is dumb, like saying the earth is flat or that cilantro tastes bad. If your opinion is that AoS's matched play should be divided into two rulesets, that is a dumb opinion. AoS already has a simplified version of the game called "open play". Complicating matters by adding another rule set to simplify the game where a simpler version exists is double work, unnecessary and dumb

 


New players will likely be introduced to the game by experience players. There shouldn't be an "excesses" in open play if your are the one introducing AoS to new players. Are you chain summoning Lords of Change to show them how you can destroy them in a single game turn? Did you choose Nagash as your "one model" to play against their 10 halberdiers? If so; stop it. 

If they are experienced players who really need that security blanket of "structure", then you can introduce them to AoS through matched play, but maybe start at 500 pts. At that level, the complexity (lol) of AoS shouldn't be an issue. 

 


Firstly, I didn't say you weren't a fan. I'm glad to hear you like AoS; I like it too. And you're always entitled to share your opinion; absolutely. But when you do, others are free to comment on it. If you don't want opinions about your opinions, then don't share them. My "dumb" comment was not directed at you personally, but rather at your opinion that AoS requires a 4th mode of play; 3 is plenty. 

Secondly, I personally think these upcoming changes will be huge. The changes to summoning alone will really effect how 1/4 of the armies play (mostly death and Chaos). Stack command abilities will really change things o the tabletop, since with enough spells/command abitiles even chaff units can become suddenly terrifying. There's a bunch of other changes that I think will be extremely impactful on the game flow as well. This isn't a minor tweak to the game; that was GHB2017. This is a fundamental redesign of some major game mechanics and I think the game will be markedly different come June. 

 

WOW mate are you a TROLL? Cool it. You Grossly exaggerate many "facts" there pal. WFB was never 1000's of pages and AoS is not just 4 - did you forget AoS has many many books out on how to play now? including army books, you're comparing 8 editions to 1. You're too much of a fan boy to hear any criticism seriously or objectively.  I've played 2nd to 4th ed, then came back at 8th Ed and I play AoS and I like it. I merely passed on the opinions of those who tried to come back to the game and didnt like it. I know the game mate and I don't as you suggest smash new players with ridiculous cheese tactics, you are making assumptions about the kind of player I am? And WFB never had any "Codex" your thinking 40k , Not everything is space marines. I wanted to state an opinion not invite an argument so calm down. Just because you don't agree it doesn't make it dumb you just haven't worked it out yet...

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Hey what are everyone’s thoughts on the Lords of the Clan battalion? 

I know in my meta, 5 (because I’d want to run 5) treelords roaming around the table dishing out mortal wounds would be very effective - especially with this coming second edition changes. 

I just hope the Sylvaneth battalion costs come down (HEAPS!)

 

thoughts?

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37 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

I wonder if the new endless spells will block space to summon wyldwoods ? if yes then it will get a bit tougher to bring them out

By all accounts, they should, as they're models on the table, and all of our wyldwood deployment references a distance from models. 

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11 hours ago, BadDice0809 said:

Hello!

Looking to start the tree people for AoS 2.0. I have been lurking around and reading the comments. I really like the sylvaneth aesthetic, cant wait to paint my war grove up.

I have a couple of questions. 

A good number of citadel woods to purchase. I was thinking around 5, and already have 3, but just wanted some informed opinions.

Treelords. Are they any good? No lists seem to mention them at all... its TLA, Durthu, or bust. Does the poor basic Treeman have a place?

Any good recipes for pink? I really like the peach/ cherry blossom look (I want my Durthu and Hunters to have the straw kung fu hats... I was thinking of making them out of the citadel woods leaves...)

Any experience using foliage flock for model train trees on sylvaneth? Or is it too much?

Thanks for any and all help.

I'm glad you want to join our march to war, welcome to the Sylvaneth.;)

I can try to answer your two first questions. For your first question, if you have a table with a proper amount of terrain, then three citadel woods should be enough for a 1000pts match. Try it out a little bit before you before you decide for more. The second question is a bit harder for me to answer. I have actually never used the basic Treelord myself, for no reason really. But remember that they are cheaper and slightly better in combat than the TLA, and they too can stomp the ground for that delicious -1 to hit debuff. I believe someone else on this forum claimed that TL's are as good as Kurnoth Hunters. Whatever you do I recommend to magnetize your Treelords (head, weapon), so you can switch between them and for ease of transportation.B|

I also really like your martial arts and cherry blossom idea, go for it!?

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Hey peeps. I've been trying out a new 1k list for about a week, and it's pretty sweet. Based around my current collection, and meant for a tournament coming up in two weeks. 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior 
- Artefact: Briarsheath 
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)

Total: 980 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 62

The previous iteration had a unit of sword Hunters and a Branchwych instead of Drycha, but that played very poorly. The one before that had Durthu and double Branchwych, which had powerful offensive capabilities but folded if the opponent had mortal wounds to direct at Durthu.

Unit choices:

  • TLA: The good old previous edition almost unkillable beast. Nothing much to be said about this, it should survive most everything outside of mortal wound spam.
  • Drycha: Fast and offensive in more ways than one. AoE profile because most of my local meta at 1k isn't hordes outside of Death. At 2k I'll take the other shooting profile every time.
  • Dryads: So good. You can steal objectives in some battleplans, they do not fold in wyldwood, and are all around great infantry. 

I haven't had the greatest variety in opponents, but I've out-dropped my opponents in every game so far, opting to give them the first turn and trying to get a double turn in the fourth or fifth round. So far, none of my opponents have been willing to give me an early double turn to take that choice away from me. 

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On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 1:27 AM, BadDice0809 said:

...

Treelords. Are they any good? No lists seem to mention them at all... its TLA, Durthu, or bust. Does the poor basic Treeman have a place?

...

Hey man - I've been using a basic Treelord in 1000pt games for a while and I really rate them.  The cost isn't excessive for a pretty hefty beatstick combat unit and at smaller level games they don't take up the huge chunk of points that a Durthu would. They're also a pretty good distraction as opponents tend to assume they are the most powerful thing and prioritise killing them.

Give one a go, I think you'll be surprised by what they can achieve at smaller level games - Ive seen mine take down a Magmadroth in one round, take a round of combat from Skarbrand and then kill him in return, and pump out 10 wounds onto a 15 man unit. The -1 to hit stamp is a great thing as well, definitely a life saver.

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So I have been tossing back and forth between Sylvaneth and fyreslayers as my order army. I have leaned more to Sylvaneth over the past week because I don’t want to just give my opponent almost free reign over the magic and shooting phases. That being said I kinda need help on making a shopping list for Sylvaneth. From what I have seen I need the following 

12 hunters minimum half with bows half with scythe 

15 tree revs

drycha

alarielle

2 get started 

6 woods

 

anything else I’m missing or miscounted?

final question how do Sylvaneth stack up to other order armies?

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36 minutes ago, Drillz said:

So I have been tossing back and forth between Sylvaneth and fyreslayers as my order army. I have leaned more to Sylvaneth over the past week because I don’t want to just give my opponent almost free reign over the magic and shooting phases. That being said I kinda need help on making a shopping list for Sylvaneth. From what I have seen I need the following 

12 hunters minimum half with bows half with scythe 

 15 tree revs

 drycha

alarielle

2 get started 

6 woods

 

anything else I’m missing or miscounted?

final question how do Sylvaneth stack up to other order armies?

Hey, and welcome to (maybe) playing angry demon trees! Getting right into it:

  • GHB 2017 wasn't kind to the hunters, and I've left them off my lists more often than not. They're getting some kind of discount though, looking forward to that.
  • Tree-Revenants (assuming you don't mean Spite-Revenants) are cool, but I'm not sure you need 15 of them. Most lists floating around have one unit of 5-10 or 2x5. 
  • Spite-Revenants (not on your list, but it'd be fair to mention them) are mostly used for one battalion (Outcasts), and you need four units for that. It's a very specialized list so don't sweat it.
  • Drycha. I will swear by her. She's currently great with a bit of planning. Will get a bit harder to use her if the new edition sees people playing MSU or a mix of MSU and hordes.
  • Alarielle. I don't have the model, so I can't comment. From what I've heard she's either great or dies to DISTRACTION ALARIELLE before having a big effect. Probably on my buylist once the new edition is out.
  • SC boxes. Oh god yes. You can build two of the three treelord variations, so I'd advise you to magnetize. These boxes are always full of value.
  • Last, but not least, Wyldwoods. I've been playing with three Wyldwoods (one Citadel Wood base each) in all of my games and I get by. Probably adding one or two over the summer for more flexibility. I usually play on more cluttered boards where getting a fourth wood on the table would be difficult, so YMMV. I'd advise you to start with three woods though.

Sylvaneth are in a bit of a weird spot. Gunline armies (Freeguild, Disposessed, Wanderersm etc.) shoot more/better. Duardin of any kind take a hit better. Seraphon cast magic better. Many armies can punch better. But Sylvaneth can aggravate an opponent like to other army can, because we do all those things to an acceptable level with good mobility. We have an overwhelming weakness to mortal wounds though, and fold to most armies that can put them out well. 

In closing, you should probably skim a few things from your list unless your aim is to build an almost full collection. Look around, build some lists on Warscrollbuilder and probably wait for the new edition.

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3 hours ago, Kaylethia said:

 

  • Spite-Revenants (not on your list, but it'd be fair to mention them) are mostly used for one battalion (Outcasts), and you need four units for that. It's a very specialized list so don't sweat it.

You only need three units for the Outcasts battalion, four for Dreadwood!

Related to this, anyone tried Outcasts at 1000 points? Got a game coming up and thought it might be cool to have Outcasts + Drycha, even if it's not the most competitive.

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1 hour ago, Craze said:

Hi guys. One question: Which Order Wizard would you play in a Gnarlroot list?

I read that Loremaster is really good when combined with Durthu, but I do not have Durthu right now.

 

Thanks!

At 1000 points, Loremaster with TLA is still good, especially if your dice hate the words "I shoot x unit with TLA's Doom Tendril Staff". I swear, I've dealt damage with it twice in 20 shots.

24 minutes ago, Paul G said:

You only need three units for the Outcasts battalion, four for Dreadwood!

Related to this, anyone tried Outcasts at 1000 points? Got a game coming up and thought it might be cool to have Outcasts + Drycha, even if it's not the most competitive.

Ah! That's what I get for posting about something I haven't played before I have my coffee.

I suppose it comes down to what you use your last 110 points on, one hero and no 20+ count units can bite you hard. For fun (up to certain definitions of fun :P) games, sure. Anything even remotely serious would leave you weaker that your opponent. I've tried Household and Gnarlroot in 1000 point games, and I've been thinking that it's not very feasible currently. Putting 20% of your list into small bonuses for some units in your army while your opponent gets more bodies and power. I've been skipping them even in 1500 point lists simply due to the fact that that's getting a unit of hunters, a treelord variation, another 20+ unit of dryads, Drycha or a powerful ally unit I could be fielding instead even if I don't out-drop my opponent.

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2 hours ago, Kaylethia said:

At 1000 points, Loremaster with TLA is still good, especially if your dice hate the words "I shoot x unit with TLA's Doom Tendril Staff". I swear, I've dealt damage with it twice in 20 shots.

What about 2000 Point games?

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@Craze You have other options as well then, as you have 890 points left over after requirements. Minimum (I bumped dryads up to 20 each, because they get so much from being more than 10, although you could fill your battleline with either kinds of revenants) 2000 point list:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Treelord Ancient (300)
Branchwych (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
Household (70)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (180)

Total: 1110 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 62
 

Other favorites are Celestial Hurricanum and Battlemage. I prefer the Loremaster for some shooting resistance and buffs on whatever model you need it at the time. Durthu nead a wyldwood with this on is insane, and so is angry Drycha (12 + 2d6 attacks in melee, rerolling hits and wounds) or a Kurnoth Hunter huntmaster in a pinch.

This still leaves you enough points to ally in something silly to round out your list with, like a unit of Glade Guard (sorry, I don't use allies at all, so that's the first thing that came to mind since I have a handful of their old models) to get a gunline as well.

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