SpiritofHokuto Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Gilby said: Are we sure about the FSWB thing? p6 of the designer commentary: "Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle)." The, "units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have", surely refers to units that are not part of your armies allegiance? Otherwise you're spending ally points on your own battleline (can Tzeentch even ally Tzeentch?). I think this is the way you're meant to read it given the context of the previous section talking about how allies don't cost ally points if the battalion is the same allegiance as your army. As everything is Tzeentch then you're just spending 160 ally points on the battalion as an ally? I really hope that this is the case as I was really looking forward to playing and painting up my FSWB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilby Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said: I really hope that this is the case as I was really looking forward to playing and painting up my FSWB. If it isn't I wonder what the point in writing, "An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army" and everything following it was. As practically every battalion plus the units in it will cost more than 500 points making it a redundant comment. As it is an FAQ it is also likely to have had less proof reading than the rules themselves (which as the FAQs prove have enough of their own context and phrasing issues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofHokuto Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Well there are a few battalions that let you include units from outside your allegiance. I suppose it's just a poorly worded way of preventing them from being a "two way street". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haneybird Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Note that this does not say that the battalion can be part of your army. It is part of your Allegiance. Fatesworn Warband inherits the TZEENTCH keyword because all members of the battalion have the TZEENTCH keyword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, haneybird said: Note that this does not say that the battalion can be part of your army. It is part of your Allegiance. Fatesworn Warband inherits the TZEENTCH keyword because all members of the battalion have the TZEENTCH keyword. So that did come out pre-GHB 2017... and the changeover to allowing Allies. The key issue isn’t whether it can be in an army, but where do you pay for the points for said units in a Pitched Battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyrical Sophist Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Hi, new to the forums and AoS, so take this with a pinch of salt. Anyone looked at a Fate Master with a Chaos Warrior contingent? You can make the Fate Master pretty damn resilient. This may be overkill, but you can combine the new artifact from Ghur (forces enemies to deduct one from their hit rolls against you) , have a 2+ in combat vs non flying enemies, a screamer within 9" (forces opponents targeting Tzeentch Daemon heroes to count 6s as 1s), and you get an additional -1 for being close to a unit. The command ability is not the best, but we seem fairly weak for command abilities in general. We can take the most advantage possible from it though, since it seems to work for any rolls we do, meaning that Gaunt Summoner (Who also gets screamers benefit) , Magister, and Ogroid all get to benefit. So, targeting Fatemaster by range. -2 to hit (Look Out and Feather) Count sixes as ones (Screamers) 4+ armour saved after that Potential command ability re roll Targeting by magic Ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a 4+ (Shield) Wizards nearby able to dispel I believe the command ability re roll still works? Targeting in combat. 2+ armour save unless they fly Count sixes as ones (Screamers) -1 to hit (Feather) Potential command ability re roll. This list looks really really stupid, but pretty funny. Fate Master Ogroid Thaumaturge Gaunt Summoner Magister 5 Chaos Warriors 5 Chaos Warriors 10 Acolytes 3 Screamers Endless Shackles spell. Bang on 1000 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofHokuto Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Satyrical Sophist said: Hi, new to the forums and AoS, so take this with a pinch of salt. Anyone looked at a Fate Master with a Chaos Warrior contingent? You can make the Fate Master pretty damn resilient. This may be overkill, but you can combine the new artifact from Ghur (forces enemies to deduct one from their hit rolls against you) , have a 2+ in combat vs non flying enemies, a screamer within 9" (forces opponents targeting Tzeentch Daemon heroes to count 6s as 1s), and you get an additional -1 for being close to a unit. The command ability is not the best, but we seem fairly weak for command abilities in general. We can take the most advantage possible from it though, since it seems to work for any rolls we do, meaning that Gaunt Summoner (Who also gets screamers benefit) , Magister, and Ogroid all get to benefit. So, targeting Fatemaster by range. -2 to hit (Look Out and Feather) Count sixes as ones (Screamers) 4+ armour saved after that Potential command ability re roll Targeting by magic Ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a 4+ (Shield) Wizards nearby able to dispel I believe the command ability re roll still works? Targeting in combat. 2+ armour save unless they fly Count sixes as ones (Screamers) -1 to hit (Feather) Potential command ability re roll. This list looks really really stupid, but pretty funny. Fate Master Ogroid Thaumaturge Gaunt Summoner Magister 5 Chaos Warriors 5 Chaos Warriors 10 Acolytes 3 Screamers Endless Shackles spell. Bang on 1000 points. You could get it to a 0+ save vs non flyers with the Paradoxical Shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I appreciate where people are coming from with the whole Blue / Brimstome horror points. I know we can mix and match them and use them with Fate points but my self reading it as RaW it's fairly clear they wanted us to get to 10 Fate points before we summon. Otherwise they could of simply stated "If at the end movement phase you have 10 or more Fate, Brimstone or Blue horrors points" etc. That said I can understand why people see that GW may have intended it for that to be the case, I think it's all worth us dropping a email to the FAQ team to see if they can clarify it Again for my self FSWB is very clear, It is a Everchosen allegiance Batallion, if you army is using the Tzeentch allegiance (Command traits, lores, artefacts etc) then any units from the Everchosen Batallion are considered allies in said army. Again, I can appreciate people are frustrated by that if they've worked on a FSWB army for a while or just bought units for it. Again, woth dropping a email to the FAQ team to see if they can yes / no. All that said I'll leave that topic alone now, people have there opinions I've been thinking about a Tzaangor Spam list, it doesn't really interact with Fate points but it does have a loooot of damage output. Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Chaos Lord on Deamonic Mount - 160 Tzaangor - 480 Tzaangor - 480 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Tzaangor Skyfires - 440 It's light on MW, though the Skyfires, Bolt of Tzeentch, Unchecked Mutation can help out with that a little. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cyclop Owl Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said: I appreciate where people are coming from with the whole Blue / Brimstome horror points. I know we can mix and match them and use them with Fate points but my self reading it as RaW it's fairly clear they wanted us to get to 10 Fate points before we summon. Otherwise they could of simply stated "If at the end movement phase you have 10 or more Fate, Brimstone or Blue horrors points" etc. That said I can understand why people see that GW may have intended it for that to be the case, I think it's all worth us dropping a email to the FAQ team to see if they can clarify it Again for my self FSWB is very clear, It is a Everchosen allegiance Batallion, if you army is using the Tzeentch allegiance (Command traits, lores, artefacts etc) then any units from the Everchosen Batallion are considered allies in said army. Again, I can appreciate people are frustrated by that if they've worked on a FSWB army for a while or just bought units for it. Again, woth dropping a email to the FAQ team to see if they can yes / no. All that said I'll leave that topic alone now, people have there opinions I've been thinking about a Tzaangor Spam list, it doesn't really interact with Fate points but it does have a loooot of damage output. Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Chaos Lord on Deamonic Mount - 160 Tzaangor - 480 Tzaangor - 480 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Tzaangor Skyfires - 440 It's light on MW, though the Skyfires, Bolt of Tzeentch, Unchecked Mutation can help out with that a little. Agree with you on both points. As for the list, it's fun but you're gonna struggle so hard to get control of objectives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boelimaa Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I have to say I don't like the list. It's not enough i think. Not mobile enough, not MW enough, not spells enough. AND... 10 Tzaangors are 45$, 60 Tzaangors = 270$.... i mean c'mon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Yeah agreed, it was just a bit of fun writing it down. I think the list is what I want to try and work from Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch - 180 Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch - 160 Magister - 140 The Blue Scribes - 140 Tzaangors - 480 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 6 Tzaangor Skyfires - 440 Umbral Spell Portal - 60 Balewind Vortex - 40 Souldbind Shackles - 20 I would really really like to fit in the Geminids, as they're massive value for 40 points. I just don't have 20 points anywhere I can drop. The list is light on the ground though. Really struggling with list direction, without a worthwhile batallion to try and maximise as well as trying to enough heroes to make use of fate points I always feel I've not got enough models on the table. I'll work with the above and see how I go, going to need some testing for the Throne of Skulls in October though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boelimaa Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I like that list Aaron. Looking into similar things. Dont you think there is a need of 50 points off for a CP, for Battleshock your Skyfires if you dont go first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Yeah it's a fair shout, unsure again where I'd find 50 points to drop though. I guess I could lose the Magister though I really like his potential free spawn per turn. Lists feel super tight these days I don't want to drop any of those heroes, I can't make any units smaller and I really think the Balewind is worth it. I think if I do find that a problem I'd have to look at dropping the magister. Edited June 29, 2018 by AaronWIlson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boelimaa Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 ....you could drop the magister, get 10 more acolytes and the command point...but i get the point. So difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 40 minutes ago, boelimaa said: ....you could drop the magister, get 10 more acolytes and the command point...but i get the point. So difficult. Yeah that's true. I'll test with no CP to start with, if it's a issue the Magister has to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrinTheOccult Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 What do you guys think about this list? It combines Tzeentch mortals and arcanites Allegiance: TzeentchChaos Sorcerer Lord (160)- Runestaff- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch- Lore of Fate: Bolt of TzeentchOgroid Thaumaturge (180)- General- Trait: Illusionist - Lore of Fate: Infusion ArcanumTzaangor Shaman (180)- Artefact: Aspect of Tzeentch - Lore of Fate: Shield of FateCurseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future 15 x Chaos Warriors (270)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch30 x Tzaangors (480)- 7x Pair of Savage Blade- 12x Savage Greatblade- 11x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Chaos Glaives- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (220)Total: 1990 / 2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Nothing I dislike about the above list at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Salvage Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the questions! 16 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said: @Boss Salvage Sword or Axe for the dp? (Probably sword, better to hit, though I’ll likely end up snagging my Khorne DP with Axe as a stand-in ) I assume wings? Why not use a Herald on Disc to increase mobility? Are you specifically looking for the spell for the Herald on foot? Screamers because of the new faq change? Would they be more beneficial than say an Exalted Flamer? What do you think you would do after 1000 points? Any thoughts on the new Realm Artefacts/Weapons? - The eternal debate, isn't it? My DP has 2 claws (not a 40k thing, I just liked the look), so it's never obvious to me what I should do. I typically run axe for the consistency of 4+ to hit for both hands, but my DP also never seems to hit Still thinking axe for the rend, as the army suffers for it otherwise. Obvious goal is to buff him with +1A and get him stuck in where his -1 to hit can help him be alive. - None of my prince models have wings! But I do typically say they float / jump, which people are fine with. - I prefer my foot herald models to my disc model But also for the 3D6 cast ability + foot spell. - Yep, screamers because 100 points, and other option would be CPs and/or endless spells, which I don't have yet and I'm not sure they want to roll out at the LGS for Day 1 intro games. I don't think they're terrible ... but I also have no great plans for them. Probably tag along with the DP to chew on things and enjoy his auras. Oh, also no exalted flamer painted - Here's what is painted for Tizz: 1 Daemon Prince 3+ Foot Heralds 1 Disc Herald 6 Flamers 9 Screamers 2 Burning Chariots 1 Soul Grinder 1 Spawn ~50 Pink Horrors 2 Blue Horrors Which comes to 2600+ under the new points? I do want to paint a LOC at long last - and there's another part of me that really wants to run Omniscient Oracles ❤️ - and I may cave in and paint 10 acolytes, simply because pink battleline is rough. This is my thought at stepping into 2k, beyond just slapping things down: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch Herald of Tzeentch Herald of Tzeentch 20 Pink Horrors 20 Pink Horrors 10 Kairic Acolytes 1 Burning Chariot 1 Burning Chariot Soul Grinder of Tzeentch + 100 points in spells Edited June 29, 2018 by Boss Salvage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olmdebil Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 when u loose 10 Pinks u getting Blue Horror Points to summon 10 Blues oder 20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Olmdebil said: when u loose 10 Pinks u getting Blue Horror Points to summon 10 Blues oder 20? 20 - you get 2 Blue Horror Points for every Pink Horror that dies. You can trade in 10 Blue Horror Points for a unit of 10 Blue Horrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Boss Salvage said: prefer my foot herald models to my disc model But also for the 3D6 cast ability + foot spell. They both get the Arcane Tome, but on foot does get the ability to cast a second spell if they roll a 9+ for casting. Hadn't considered that additional ability (my Herald on foot with staff isn’t painted ... ) though it doesn’t do as well in CC as on Disc. I’ve been staring at the Soul Grinder ... mainly because large daemon monster ... don’t know what I’d do for weapons on it though. I’m thinking the talon over the blade ... statistically it looks like it would at least hit and wound more often .. though it is spikey on damage. But with fate dice in the equation ... hmm. Edited June 29, 2018 by TheOtherJosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Salvage Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Aye, I meant the extra spell deal. Moar fate points plz! I ran my grinder throughout 8E and into pre-battletome AOS, and he was typically the only thing that could get any heavy lifting done. He's actually gotten quite a bit better in AOS over the last years - cheaper now, but can also run and shoot, and has destiny dice powering him O_O Mine has a daemon talon, so that's what I use ... but I'd probably choose that over the blade anyway. Main problem with my grinder right now is that I need to build him a huuuuuge base Edited June 29, 2018 by Boss Salvage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Boss Salvage said: Main problem with my grinder right now is that I need to build him a huuuuuge base That looks to be a 40K Imperial Knight sized base. I’d be interested in seeing how it fits. Unless you’re doing tournaments the base is “quasi-optional” Based on the Designers Notes for the basing sizes ... but YMMV. (Your mileage may Vary) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 So are people no longer so keen on the gaunt summoner? His spell is supreme still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Salvage Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) I've got a 150x100 base for him already from WHFB, so not total stranger to basing the big boy ... EDIT: NM, now it's a 160mm round? Yessssss because ovals are dumb. Edited June 29, 2018 by Boss Salvage New basing guidelines?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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