The Cyclop Owl Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Well now you have neither the Ogroid nor the Magister, who are your only two ways of tying up units turn 1, nor do you have the Soulsnare Shackles. As a result, fast armies like Ironjawz and Nighthaunt cavalry will kill you almost instantly. Why are you so intent on keeping Fateweaver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myzyrael Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I need your opinion on a list. We play a lot of 1500 games as we talk to much to fit 2000 in an evening most of the time ? Idea is to sit back turn one and prepare for a possible incoming double turn. Our group seldom plays alpha strikes, so not too much threat there. Ramp up fate points with 7 spells (although not that reliable) and sacrifice on pinks. Shaman will then follow Tzaangors, rest sits back more. Allegiance: Chaos Leaders Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate Gaunt Summoner (180) - General - Trait: Arcane Sacrifice - Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond Battleline 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change: Fold Reality 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch 30 x Tzaangors (480) Endless Spells Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Quicksilver Swords (20) Aethervoid Pendulum (40) Total: 1500 / 1500 Extra Command Points: 0 Endless spells are for the curseling to make him to do some damage. What I was thinking, can you increase the setup range of them with the sacrifice? With our points increases we are severely light on bodies... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Salvage Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) On 7/17/2018 at 5:18 AM, SleeperAgent said: General: Lord of Change (Incorporeal Form, Blade of Fate, Tzeentch's Firestorm) Kairos Fateweaver (Bolt of Tzeentch) Gaunt Summoner (Shield of Fate) Curseling (Glimpe the Future) The Blue Scribes (Arcane Transformation) 10x Pink Horrors (Fold Reality) 10x Pink Horrors (Unchecked Mutation) 10x Pink Horrors (Treason of Tzeentch) Endless Spells: Chronomantic Cogs Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh Umbral Spellportal 2000/2000 Without deviating much from this, I think I might suggest: Lord of Change (Incorporeal Form) Lord of Change (Ghur: Gryph-feather Charm) Gaunt Summoner A Curseling 10 Pink Horrors 10 Pink Horrors 10 Pink Horrors 10 Pink Horrors Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh Umbral Spellportal 2000/2000 I think the standard LOC is better than Kairos (for many reasons but let's go with wounds + command ability at the least), and with the Charm they've both got -1 to be hit in combat (and also in shooting for the LT LOC). Then I wanted to give you more dudes on the ground, even if they're really really expensive dudes. Blue Scribes are cool and good but the most expendable of your heroes, so they got ground up with the Cogs (the most expendable of your Endless) to make more pinks. Alternatively you could make a unit of 20 but this way you keep a spell in the game, plus more objective claiming if that's actually a thing in this game. Edited July 18, 2018 by Boss Salvage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperAgent Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Boss Salvage said: Without deviating much from this, I think I might suggest: Lord of Change (Incorporeal Form) Lord of Change (Ghur: Gryph-feather Charm) Gaunt Summoner A Curseling 10 Pink Horrors 10 Pink Horrors 10 Pink Horrors 10 Pink Horrors Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh Umbral Spellportal 2000/2000 I think the standard LOC is better than Kairos (for many reasons but let's go with wounds + command ability at the least), and with the Charm they've both got -1 to be hit in combat (and also in shooting for the LT LOC). Then I wanted to give you more dudes on the ground, even if they're really really expensive dudes. Blue Scribes are cool and good but the most expendable of your heroes, so they got ground up with the Cogs (the most expendable of your Endless) to make more pinks. Alternatively you could make a unit of 20 but this way you keep a spell in the game, plus more objective claiming if that's actually a thing in this game. I actually very much like this list. But do you really think double LOC is better than 2 different chickens? Kairos has Gift of Change which is another spell I can cast. 2 LOC means only one get to attempt Infernal Gateway and the other has to just use a spell of change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Salvage Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Thanks to the Endless Spells I think they'll both have plenty to keep themselves busy with, on top of Spell-thief potentially giving them even more to cast in later turns. Gift of Change is fine, and the spawn are free now, but it's not a huge loss vs the benefits. Also, am I wrong that both LOC could pop their command ability and give +2 to cast for all the daemon wizards (i.e. not the Curseling)? If you somehow had 2 CP stored up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myzyrael Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 18 minutes ago, Boss Salvage said: Thanks to the Endless Spells I think they'll both have plenty to keep themselves busy with, on top of Spell-thief potentially giving them even more to cast in later turns. Gift of Change is fine, and the spawn are free now, but it's not a huge loss vs the benefits. Also, am I wrong that both LOC could pop their command ability and give +2 to cast for all the daemon wizards (i.e. not the Curseling)? If you somehow had 2 CP stored up. You could do this with one also, no? Just use it twice with one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 52 minutes ago, Myzyrael said: You could do this with one also, no? Just use it twice with one of them. It doesn’t look like it is worded to stack from a single model: “Beacon of Sorcery: [...] If a Lord of Change uses this ability, then until your next hero phase you can add 1 to all casting and unbinding rolls made for friendly TZEENTCH DAEMON WIZARDS that are within 18" of the Lord of Change.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperAgent Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Myzyrael said: You could do this with one also, no? Just use it twice with one of them. I thought you could only attempt each spell once per turn regardless of how many units know it, is that not correct? EDIT: Quoted wrong person. Edited July 18, 2018 by SleeperAgent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obmik1 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said: I thought you could only attempt each spell once per turn regardless of how many units know it, is that not correct? EDIT: Quoted wrong person. He's talking about using command abilities twice, not the spells. After a few games I've had I've realised the usefulness of big block zaangors. Is 2 units of 30 too much in 2k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olincay Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, obmik1 said: He's talking about using command abilities twice, not the spells. After a few games I've had I've realised the usefulness of big block zaangors. Is 2 units of 30 too much in 2k? In my opinion, the more tzaangores the better. There is nothing else in tzeentch that can put out as much damage as 30 tzaangores and still have staying power. Stacking command points for battleshock immunity combined with destiny dice will ensure they wont melt away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) So the game 2k game against NH went very well last night. My opponent ended up at the end of battle round 3 with only 2 spirit hosts & 1 guardian of souls left on the table. I only had only lost 20 Acolytes, 5 Horrors ( 3 of which came back ) and 5 Tzaangors but had summoned 10 Blue Horrors , 1 Herald & 3 Screamers and would of had enough to summon another 10 blue horrors next turn. I think I may do a blog dedicated to my lead up to the throne of skulls in October, doing some in depth battle reports as well as hobby progress etc to not clutter this thread up with wordy battle reports. Edited July 19, 2018 by AaronWIlson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obmik1 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I'd be interested in a bat rep blog for zeentch. Don't get to play a whole lot but enjoy reading and watching batreps. Do you think pinks are worthwhile in a mixed list? They die so quickly for their points. Also using zaangor do you think the shamen is mandatory for the +1 to wound? He's allot of points now and nothing special other than his buffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I like 1 unit of Pinks in a mixed list, while there are other threats on the table they generally get to do there thing being a 10 would wizard with +1/2 to casting rolls which is great for endless spells. Using 1's for the DD also means your opponent has to kill them all some are coming back and they supply Blue Horrors points while dying, which I think at one unit the points they provide is feasible to summon the blues in good positions to help hold objectives which we are weak at. I think the Tzaangor Shaman is still worth and has a lot of merits, his Sorcerous Elixir is now better as you can cast Boon twice, which can help refill your Tzaangors, or he can throw out endless spells, etc. Having a 16" move is also fantastic for getting him into a position where he can threaten backfield objectives if people leave them unguarded. Lastly I totally think the +1 to wound is worth it, especially when you think about the sheer amount of hits a unit of Tzaangors put out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connelj2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Hey guys im prepping for a tournement what do you think of this list? Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch Gaunt Summoner (180) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate Lord Of Change (380) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm UNITS 30 x Tzaangors (480) 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80) 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch ENDLESS SPELLS Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Umbral Spellportal (60) Aethervoid Pendulum (40 Edited July 19, 2018 by Connelj2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 @Connelj2 I’d consider adding “Fold Reality” to add models back to the Daemon units as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binkbinkplx Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) I'm seeing a lot of lists popping up with both a Lore of Fate and a Lore of Change for one model. Is this a thing again? Thought FAQs eliminated this? Edited July 19, 2018 by Binkbinkplx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Binkbinkplx said: I'm seeing a lot of lists popping up with both a Lore of Fate and a Lore of Change for one model. Is this a thing again? Thought FAQs eliminated this? There is an “Arch Sorcerer” Command Trait that gives additional spells. Those spells can be from either lore of change/fate depending on the command trait. (e.g. Shaman/Gaunt Summoner can take either version of Arch Sorcerer, just needs either Daemon or Mortal. And they only get 1 additional spell by through the Allegiance Abilities.) Edit: Faq’d: Page 73 – Spell Lores Change to: ‘Spell Lores: The champions of Tzeentch have ever been feared for their mastery of the sorcerous arts. Wizards from your army gain one spell from one of two spell lores – the Lore of Fate or the Lore of Change – depending on whether they are a mortal sorcerer or one of Tzeentch’s daemons.’ Basically the Warscroll Builder Because it isn’t validating is allowing addition of two spells... and because of not validating and players not reading faq’s it’s not being flagged by the tool. Edited July 19, 2018 by TheOtherJosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Connelj2 said: Hey guys im prepping for a tournement what do you think of this list? Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch Gaunt Summoner (180) - Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch Lord Of Change (380) - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm UNITS 30 x Tzaangors (480) 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80) 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200) - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch ENDLESS SPELLS Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Umbral Spellportal (60) Aethervoid Pendulum (40 Yeah I like this it has the potential to be doing what Tzeentch want to do. I'd remove the triple bolt & give someone Fold Reality is all. Edited July 19, 2018 by AaronWIlson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Are Arcanite Cabals any good? Looks neat on paper but it doesn't use the usual Tzeentch wizards like Curselings and Summoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, kenshin620 said: Are Arcanite Cabals any good? Looks neat on paper but it doesn't use the usual Tzeentch wizards like Curselings and Summoners. They happen to be a requirement for some of the larger battalions. (And potentially return destiny dice after use.) with the points changes, the question is it a good use of points now? From a battletome lore perspective, Gaunt Summoners and Curseling are not direct leadership of an Arcanite Cult. They are either classed as “Honored Guests” or “Henchmen” respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximum Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 What do you think about it ? Better 30 + 30 tzaangors, or 30 tzaangors and 9 enlightened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connelj2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 After you spend fate points are any unspend fate points lost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obmik1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Connelj2 said: After you spend fate points are any unspend fate points lost? The fate points you use to summon are obviously gone, but if you have any left over they remain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connelj2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, obmik1 said: The fate points you use to summon are obviously gone, but if you have any left over they remain. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obmik1 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 What does everyone think to the Midwest meltdown zeentch lists? Aosshorts Midwest meltdown Some interesting stats and house rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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