AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, Roark said:

I've still got 40 starters with blades, and I don't think it's worth losing sleep over [...]

That’s good to know.

1 hour ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

Bloodwarriors are my personal go to battleline. [...]

When running them is it full 10man units? Or 5man mini-units? At 100 for 5 they feel expensive (Even with 10 wounds for that Minimum sized unit.)

[Praecautus]

5 minutes ago, Sieggi858 said:

So my fellow Skullreapers, what is a decent 1k list to start out with? 

I’ve just ordered a box of Reavers but not really sure what’s best to run at that points level

The question to ask is do you like the look of The bloodbound mortals or daemons or both?

If you want a mortal only army then the start collecting box and old start set is about 1000 to 1100 points in old AoS points. It will give you lots to play with and try out plus 4 fun heroes. Slaves can be mixed into if you like.

If you like daemons then it's pretty much wok bt with blood letters in blocks of 30 and a blood stoker (whip guy) and blood secrator on top. The blood thirsted may be overkill at this level. 

our army works by the heros getting the troops to punch above their weight. It's a really engaging army but you need to track a lot.

Bearig in mind AoS 2 may change this

[TheAdequateWargamer]

45 minutes ago, Gilby said:

Greenstuff a Bloodletter playing a flaming guitar instead and go full Mad Max! Stipple a little Runefang Silver around all your model's mouths and wrap a few with tiny leather harnesses and masks... this is sounding like a better and better idea. Putting a Bloodthirster in a gimp suit isn't going to make him less scary.

You'll have me painting daemonettes next!

[TheOtherJosh]

Is there a reason to bring multiple Bloodsecrators in a list, especially given the points increase?

The unit is a seriously beneficial lynchpin with the additional attack bonus, but he’s a big target so removing the model from play would benefit your opponent substantially. (And basically entirely guts a Gore Pilgrims Battalion when he dies.)

I could see a benefit if one doesn’t run the Gore Pilgrims Battalion. (Move one up, and then the other.)

(Other than allowing you to run both A Bloodbound Warband and the Gore Pilgrims at the same time.)

Edited June 22, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[Praecautus]

42 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Is there a reason to bring multiple Bloodsecrators in a list, especially given the points increase?

The unit is a seriously beneficial lynchpin with the additional attack bonus, but he’s a big target so removing the model from play would benefit your opponent substantially. (And basically entirely guts a Gore Pilgrims Battalion when he dies.)

I could see a benefit if one doesn’t run the Gore Pilgrims Battalion. (Move one up, and then the other.)

(Other than allowing you to run both A Bloodbound Warband and the Gore Pilgrims at the same time.)

I have been wondering about a shrine and aspiring death bringer combo. It's a similar points to 2 secrator and is harder to shift in terms of wounds. Plus you get an additional 2  prayers for 1 hero slot.

You lose the sorcery reroll but with al the unbind a and the range of 30 is that an issue. 

The only downside is battleshock, but if running msu and needing tithe to summon that may not be so bad.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Praecautus

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Not worth taking 2 banners. It wasnt worth it at 120.

But, theyve opened  up the loophole for attack stacking if you take an aspiring db.

Gore pilgrims (2 x killing frenzy), aspiring db and a lokoj and a bloodstoker.

You could get blood warriors down to 2's to hit rerolling 1s, 2's to wound (on charge) rr 1's with a ridiculous amount of attacks each.

No rend though, so maybe with skullreapers are the new bloodletters on the mortal wound front.

Drop 300 points for 6 command points should take anything off the board.

 

 

[Charles]

Just watched the 12 episode of Stormcast, I think I confirmed the afterthought theory several of us have been discussing.

When the play tester what would be good for Khorne, he couldn’t think of anything and then said the basic command ability to reroll charges . . . 

Martin also said Khorne would do really well by using 70 point Reaver units with the axe. I think he is getting mixed up Reavers don’t get Goreglaves

[NemoVonUtopia]

38 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

That’s good to know.

When running them is it full 10man units? Or 5man mini-units? At 100 for 5 they feel expensive (Even with 10 wounds for that Minimum sized unit.)

I pretty much always take 10 to give the unit champion a goreglaive. They are expensive but they are only 10 points per 5 more than chaos warriors. 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

6 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I pretty much always take 10 to give the unit champion a goreglaive. They are expensive but they are only 10 points per 5 more than chaos warriors. 

Worth considering how you would handle battleplans like scortched earth. You need a unit on all 3 of your own objective to keep scoring.  So a 5 man squad is pretty good if their sole purpose in life it to sit on an objective.

Anything beyond that and 10s should be the way to go.

[TheOtherJosh]

30 minutes ago, Charles said:

Martin also said Khorne would do really well by using 70 point Reaver units with the axe. I think he is getting mixed up Reavers don’t get Goreglaves

He’s probably talking about Meatripper axes, which have similar stats to Reaver Blades ... but have a -1 to rend. They just don’t get to Reroll 1s.

[NemoVonUtopia]

34 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

Worth considering how you would handle battleplans like scortched earth. You need a unit on all 3 of your own objective to keep scoring.  So a 5 man squad is pretty good if their sole purpose in life it to sit on an objective.

Anything beyond that and 10s should be the way to go.

Yah, I've had a few games where a 10 man squad had to objective camp and it felt like a waste. 

[Elevenist]

5 hours ago, Sieggi858 said:

So my fellow Skullreapers, what is a decent 1k list to start out with? 

I’ve just ordered a box of Reavers but not really sure what’s best to run at that points level

The starter set if you can still get it is the best value, trade the storm cast with someone else or go halfsies with a friend. 

[stratigo]

I would just like to point out.

 

The forge world exalted greater demon of khorne is a greater demon of khorne. You can summon it.

 

[Killax]

On 6/21/2018 at 3:58 PM, RuneBrush said:

Just to throw something into the mix on Khorne going forward.  I spoke to a few of the guys at Warhammer Fest and had a short discussion, I put across my usual points on how Khorne doesn't feel properly anti-magic (he's actually anti-everything if we're honest) and it was heavily hinted at that Khorne would be receiving some love - just not "soon".  Reading between the lines, that says that in the next couple of years we're going to get a new battletome with abilities that will allow us to combat the upcoming swathe of magic.

Very happy to hear that as I feel you and some others who have blogs might actually be able to reach them. As before I'm not the kind of guy who is randomly upset by change, but I do think that with what weve seen so far (great stuff for new armies, Free Guild and Seraphon) the bias of designers for specific factions just stands out a little bit too much. Comming from someone who has played WFB and still plays 40K I know GW sometimes had a tendancy to do this. However it's a poor execution if the Core Rules are that great. This is absolutely the case for AoS2 and the Magic boost and Realm additions are FANTASTIC.

Its also not the costs that really bother me too much. Increased Bloodletter points, fine with me, even a Bloodsecrator increase can make sence if different other Heroes drop in points (and they did). But what bothers me can be summed up to these three questions:

1. Why do Blood Tithe points dissapear once an effect is used?
(Thematically, is the whole point of Khorne not to cause unending slaughter and warfare? So why does this effect randomly stop?) 
2. Why does Blades of Khorne not have units with the Daemon and Mortal Keywords?
(Thematically some units are just that and all the other Chaos factions who have Daemon/Mortals or even Daemon/Skaven have those Keywords)
3. What is the designed purpose for Khorne armies?
(Which is indeed linked to your Magic question but also linked to Motral Wounds as DoK just does that much better these days)

I'd love a responce but I feel GW at the moment just doesn't care at all about Khorne armies, or Destruction for that matter, but that's a whole different discussion offcourse.

On 6/21/2018 at 4:05 PM, Thomas E said:

Appreciate you speaking to them, hopefully the more we voice our concerns, the more chance of them making Khorne more relevant again. Sadly I feel that once I have finished painting my 2.5k of Khorne I will shelf them until the battletome or points change are introduced. 

I feel I'll be doing the same or focus on 40K Khorne, where the amulation of slaughtering units is actually fleshed out well. Better put, even better. 

The two biggest irks for me in general for AoS2 Khorne are that the new Summonning Table isn't actually adding to an Allegiance Ability, it's just widing it. Meanwhile other armies have an added Allegiance Ability. Then, to top it of, why do we still hang around with Mortals on Daemons who arn't Daemons. It's a mistake that in other armies would have been fixed a long time ago.

On 6/21/2018 at 5:22 PM, TheOtherJosh said:

So the image that is floating around appears to say:

“If you have 2 or more BT points at the end of your movement phase, you can summon one or more units from the list below onto the battlefield and add them to your army.” (Emphasis mine...) 

It does appear that we can summon 4x5 Bloodletters Units with 8 BT. (Am I missing something?) It would still be nice to be able to stockpile more BT and not have it vanish after being pulled from the BT command table. (That would fix a lot.)

@Killax re: the Heroes... the Mighty Skullcrushers (when they were Skullcrushers Of Khorne) also had the DAEMON keyword and don't have it. (Though it does make getting into range and killing Kroak easier without the keyword.)

Thanks! It opens up some doors. The last time I saw the page it was super blurry and thus might have misread it. 

Lastly my aim is really not to be too pessimistic however what occured is that :
- The good/high tier units/Battalions increased in cost by 20+ points.
- The 'perhaps useful when costed correctly' units went down by 10 points.
- The 'new' Allegiance Ability doesn't synergize with the current excisting Allegiance Ability. It's a choose one, can't use both type of deal. Which is 'unique' within the added Allegiance Abilities found elsewhere.

For those who want to have fun! Certainly don't let posts like this push you away. The models are amazing, the lore behind the army is very cool but the mistakes GW made in quickly designing Blades of Khorne are still not solved.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Killax

[Killax]

14 hours ago, Sieggi858 said:

So my fellow Skullreapers, what is a decent 1k list to start out with? 

I’ve just ordered a box of Reavers but not really sure what’s best to run at that points level

Reavers can be used at any level, they remain a nice affordable Battleline unit for sure. A nice list sketch up could be:

Aspiring Deathbringer
Bloodsecrator
Bloodstoker
30 Bloodletters
20 Bloodreavers
10 Blood Warriors

[Killax]

13 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Is there a reason to bring multiple Bloodsecrators in a list, especially given the points increase?

The unit is a seriously beneficial lynchpin with the additional attack bonus, but he’s a big target so removing the model from play would benefit your opponent substantially. (And basically entirely guts a Gore Pilgrims Battalion when he dies.)

I could see a benefit if one doesn’t run the Gore Pilgrims Battalion. (Move one up, and then the other.)

(Other than allowing you to run both A Bloodbound Warband and the Gore Pilgrims at the same time.)

There always is a reason but I do not think there is room anymore. When a model gets decreased in efficiency and then followed up with  a cost increase things usually become extremely restricted. Before I tinkered with lists without Gore Pilgrims and two Bloodsecrators, this is nice and works nicely.

However the aim I see now for those who skip on Battalions (I am one of them) is to focus on Karanak and the unit of 5 Fleshhounds he comes with. It might not seem like much on paper but both these units are very functional and provide quick Objective takers and Bodyguards for what is essentially free. Long story short it's the best deal we have. I am aware it thakes a Hero slot, still worth it however.

[MOMUS]

I'm pretty excited for the new edition, just preordered my copy of the books and dice etc 

I'm really looking forward to trying out all the different units in the new edition, very tempted by the goretide again.

I think my main shift will be adding more bodies and having daemons summon in.

[Roark]

Just noticed that the Slaughterbrute dropped by 10pts to 170pts. Maybe a faster alternative to 2 x Khorgies... Maybe not...

[medivouk]

I do think we may be dipping more into slaves to darkness with the new points changes, some std units have dropped points, and im looking at running 2x 10 chaos warriors and 40 marauders as khorne allegiance battleline instead of blood warriors and reavers in a couple of games to get a feel for them.

I am excited to run skarr bloodwraith now his resurrection ability works, as for the blood tithe changes, they suck, but with some msu and/or luck it opens options we wouldn't otherwise have had, and it is still 'free points' that can keep us in a losing game, or 'win more' when we're ahead.

 

[misthv]

What do you think about Great Bray-Shaman as Khorne ally? Do we know anything how its signature spell is affected by AoS2 -- summon a Chaos Monster on 9+ looks quite interesting. 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

5 minutes ago, misthv said:

What do you think about Great Bray-Shaman as Khorne ally? Do we know anything how its signature spell is affected by AoS2 -- summon a Chaos Monster on 9+ looks quite interesting. 

Pretty sure its not this anymore. Detail might be in one of the wh community page articles on their faction

[misthv]

Just now, TheAdequateWargamer said:

Pretty sure its not this anymore. Detail might be in one of the wh community page articles on their faction

Yeah, likely-- although I didn't find any info on it.

[NemoVonUtopia]

23 minutes ago, misthv said:

Yeah, likely-- although I didn't find any info on it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/31/31st-may-faction-focus-the-beasts-of-chaosgw-homepage-post-3/

It got replaced with devolve that is like the slaughterpriest's blood bind ability.

[misthv]

1 minute ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/31/31st-may-faction-focus-the-beasts-of-chaosgw-homepage-post-3/

It got replaced with devolve that is like the slaughterpriest's blood bind ability.

Thanks! Although very meh for Khorne army! ?

[Retro]

18 hours ago, stratigo said:

I would just like to point out.

 

The forge world exalted greater demon of khorne is a greater demon of khorne. You can summon it.

 

Hey, looking at the leaked page from one of the youtube videos, it specifies the three standard bloodthirsters you can summon by name, so no exalted or Skarbrand

(top of page 152 on the old thread)