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Ironjawz AOS2 2018 Help Me Be Positive


Rock Lobster

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Cogs with a regular Moonclan shaman is 140....so that is the cost of a megaboss, warboss w/banner. I can see paying that but the real test is going to be wether a balance of magic and passive buffs is better than going all in one way or the other. Another thing to remember for all the gleaming eyed Megabosses out there....Outside of Daddy G's command ability, we still have to be within 12 to declare charges regardless of how many buffs we get. Though the positive side to that is that long bomb 12 inch charges are going to be a much more reliable thing now. I smile at the thought of opponents either getting cought flat footed or keeping a 20"-ish berth from our boyz cuz they scared.

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4 hours ago, Garxia said:

At this point I think that's an autoinclude.

 

3 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

You might be right.

I agree with both of you. It's almost like it's include in the cost of brutes for me. A close combat army with 4" mouv just doesn't work. That may be one of my disappoitment because I would love to play a weirfist especially because we "have to" play a spellcaster this edition, it would have been a way to improve an auto include choice.

And I think it's superior to Gorefist because in an objectives game, you keep that mobility late game.

It's just sad that a megaboss on foot is still outrun by his followers ! ^^

I don't think that the cogs replace this battalion. Remember that his effect apply to the table, not only your army. But instead, adding cogs on top of an ironfist with bloodtooth... just a shame that we cannot add Goddrakk (almost too much !).

Sorry for my english for this post guys ;) 

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I do think weirdfist will be viable but the play style will be store up command points, blast the enemy with arcane bolt & greenpuke/foot of fork for 2-3 turns then dash for the objectives and or charge whatever has come for us with multi Waaagh (or use CP to get 6” runs) 

i also think that while magic will be a very strong choice for armies in AoS2 there is room for  lists of Ironjawz with no magic or magic defence per se just more bodies and iron fist or gore fist why? Well if a lot of casters/summon style armies have had points increases and then they are shipping points to CPs or endless spells that means less actual bodies on the table than now (while for us in some builds we have pretty much the same bodies as now) let’s be honest most of the endless spells do the odd mortal wound which in the grand scheme of things we can deal with unless concentrated on one unit and if we have ways to mitigate battleshock or mortal wounds (lens of refraction in Hysh relicts) we can weather the storm easier. Combine this with megawaaaagh and even if we get across the board with 66% of our models the enemy is probably 75% of what they were under aos1 and then with 2+ waaagh we then compensate for the lower model count 

this is all theory of course but even some of the tricksy endless spells (shackles) we have some defence against as iron fist move and the 6” mighty destroyers move probably wouldn’t be halved by the endless spell (I’d need to check wording) we may not be suddenly top tier but from a play style perspective at least it does genuinely seem that, weirdfist, ironfist, gorefist, 1 drop, brutefist and even ardfist armies will be playable in aos2 competitively which is a massive step up from maybe the former just ironfist or gorefist options before  

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1 hour ago, ChatBatFun said:

Ironjawz need more variation, and some range. Hopefully we will get a named weirdnob on a grunta chariot, mega boss on grunta and some kind of range unit, hopefully not javelins but maybe really big cross bows or chemical squigs

I got you...Weirdfist, Balewind, Portals. Boom...24"  minimum range from the battalion, 6" from the Balewind, then however that wonky Portal works. Pretty sure that will reach across the entire table. 

Not sure if the Balewind would work with the Portals though.

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21 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

Also another list idea that based on a cdifferent strategy than the others, overwhelm and hold objectives:

Megaboss (D3 inspiring presence trait)

Wierdnob (balewind)

Wierdnob (Cogs)

Warchanter

20 Ardboyz

20 Ardboyz

20 Ardboyz

20 Ardboyz

Weirdfist

This doesn't have the hitting power of the other lists, but is defensively really solid. It doesn't rely on multiple additional attacks, usually just 1-2, instead allowing up to D3 inspiring presence per CP for the additional CP in a critical situation.

In defence mode the list has 160 wounds of infantry with a 4+ save able to hold 4 objective with inspiring presence, while the 2 wizards get 2 spells each (at +2 to cast) and can cause long range pain. In attack mode magic switches to offensive buffs for units and Cogs for massive speed.

With the Cogs and the +2 to charge banner for the ardboyz you can quickly switch between defence and attack.

What do you think of it?

 

Sold!  

I will try this out as I have a hundred or so Black Orcs that I have collected over the years.  I just need to pick up the characters.

I may try tweaking it to include a greenskinz warboss with a banner, but other than that I like it!

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Played the weirdfist yesterday

Maw Krusha General w/ironclad
Weirdnob w/dab
Footboss w/rend -3
Warchanter

20 ardboyz
10 ardboyz
5 brutes
5 brutes
3 grunta

weirdfist battalion

endless spell:  balewind

2000/2000

Played against Beastclaw Eurlbad on Scorched earth. 
He had husk-tusk, 2x stone-riders, husk-stone, 4 mornfang, 2 mornfang

I won.  Foot of gorked the thundertusk for 8, then arcane bolted for 3.  He charged the balewind.  
The plan against beastclaw is easy.  You'll always outlast on bodies.  So put your stuff in the right spot where they can't charge everything off in one go and you should win.  He also didn't get any doubles.  Brutes always win against beastclaw for combat quality since we are re-rolling hits.  

Not sure about the weirdfist on balewind.  It's easy to get him.  If you happen to not do damage before they get to you, you're out 220 points and a 120 point spellcaster. 

I think ardboy spam with weirdfist may be better.  

It's just such a tricky list because you need to keep all 5 units within 10 of the weirdnob to get the bonus.  This is of course easier to do now that the balewind and the wizard count as a single model (our old buddy Pythagoras) but sometimes you just need your pieces on the other side of the board.  

I think I could do 3-2 at a tournament with the list I played yesterday but it would be a tough go.

Lots of fun anyway!  I love the CMP options.  I mostly use the 6" run.  

The game is in a great place.

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Played two games w/ IJ using what we know of the AoS 2.0 rules.

Went with a Gorefist build first game playing the new Starstrike scenario.

Gordrakk

Warchanter x 2

Warboss Boar w/ Waagh! Banner

Fungoid

6x Gruntas

6x Gruntas

3x Gruntas

3x Gruntas

Gorefist.

Played against Tzeentch: LoC, Gaunt, Thaumaturge, Blue Scribe using umbral spell portal,bunch of pinks and some chariots.  He deployed almost all his stuff as far back as possible except his pink screens which were about 6 inchs back from his deployment line. I got first turn, used Gordrakk's command ability, all the gruntas got in and killed off his 3 groups of pinks. 

He goes, but he can't hop over my gruntas and supporting heroes w/ his flying casters. So, he was only able to get about 30 of his Blues down as a result of being pinned in his backfield. He kills off one of my pack of 3 gruntas, and most of another pack of 6. 

I win the intiative roll-off,  and I was able to clear one of his summoned blue horror screens through a rampaging destroyer-destructive bulk, arcane bolt, and bellow from Gordrakk. Which free'd up Gordrakk to get another charge into his caster bunker near the spell portal, and I killed his LoC and the Gaunt. He called it there.

Game 2:

Tried a 'ardfist list playing a new knife to the heart.

Gordrakk

Warchanter

Weirdnob- cogs

Megaboss on foot (regret not going with the Waagh! Banner warboss)

20x 'ardboyz

10x 'ardboyz

10x'ardboyz

10x'ardboyz

'ardfist

Played  against DoK consisting of big blocks of witch elves, morathi, support casters, allied eel riders.

 I deployed in a way to make sure Morathi couldn't snipe my Warchanter first turn, won the roll-off, and gave him first turn. He moved up pretty aggressively to my suprise, shooting the eel riders forward to block charges to the WE's. Morathi didn't really do much in the way of magic. 

My turn 1,  Waaagh!/Cogs/ and charge my whole army. Gordrakk failed a 6' inch charge, but all the 'ardboyz got in. Unfortunately, those eels really prevented from doing the damage I would have liked. Killed like 4 eels, and maybe 15 WEs from one unit. Really not the type of shock I was expecting, didn't activate smashing bashing at all and he ended up killing 20+ 'ardboyz.

Rest of the game was p. boring grindfest. I kept moving my warchanter away to hide him from morathi and summoning new units of 'ardboyz. He slaughtered the 'ardboyz as they came out. At the end of the game it was a minor victory for DoK, we both couldn't get a unit big enough into the opponent's deployment zone to secure the major win and he killed Gordrakk late game, I couldn't kill Morathi. 

'ardfist seems good, but I would be really reluctant to bring into a timed tourney setting. You  really, really need those 5 full-turns to actually get those 2nd/3rd wave of 'ardboyz doing something useful. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tolstedt said:

Didn't get to swing with the rend 3 footboss as I took 6 mortals on the charge.  

Will he be the battlebrewboss of ye olde sigmar?...

6 mortal wounds on the charge ? How ?

How did you deal with that Thundertusk with his ability to focus your shaman ?

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4 hours ago, tolstedt said:

Played the weirdfist yesterday

Maw Krusha General w/ironclad
Weirdnob w/dab
Footboss w/rend -3
Warchanter

20 ardboyz
10 ardboyz
5 brutes
5 brutes
3 grunta

weirdfist battalion

endless spell:  balewind

2000/2000

Played against Beastclaw Eurlbad on Scorched earth. 
He had husk-tusk, 2x stone-riders, husk-stone, 4 mornfang, 2 mornfang

I won.  Foot of gorked the thundertusk for 8, then arcane bolted for 3.  He charged the balewind.  
The plan against beastclaw is easy.  You'll always outlast on bodies.  So put your stuff in the right spot where they can't charge everything off in one go and you should win.  He also didn't get any doubles.  Brutes always win against beastclaw for combat quality since we are re-rolling hits.  

Not sure about the weirdfist on balewind.  It's easy to get him.  If you happen to not do damage before they get to you, you're out 220 points and a 120 point spellcaster. 

I think ardboy spam with weirdfist may be better.  

It's just such a tricky list because you need to keep all 5 units within 10 of the weirdnob to get the bonus.  This is of course easier to do now that the balewind and the wizard count as a single model (our old buddy Pythagoras) but sometimes you just need your pieces on the other side of the board.  

I think I could do 3-2 at a tournament with the list I played yesterday but it would be a tough go.

Lots of fun anyway!  I love the CMP options.  I mostly use the 6" run.  

The game is in a great place.

Its nice to see some feedback on the off the wall lists. It is great to hear that the wierdnob can bring the hurt but I was thinking he would probably be an expensive glass cannon. One shot from a thundertusk on a 2+ for example and it is night night. I think the better option rather than the wierdfist is simply to buy another wierdnob. Having another wierdnob with the cogs is 180 points so less than an ardfist and gives 1-2 more casts, buffs the army and you dont feel tied to stay in one place.

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4 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

6 mortal wounds on the charge ? How ?

How did you deal with that Thundertusk with his ability to focus your shaman ?

6 mortal wounds from the stonehorn.

I stayed far away from him.  He had to shoot the boyz instead.

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1 hour ago, Rock Lobster said:

Its nice to see some feedback on the off the wall lists. It is great to hear that the wierdnob can bring the hurt but I was thinking he would probably be an expensive glass cannon. One shot from a thundertusk on a 2+ for example and it is night night. I think the better option rather than the wierdfist is simply to buy another wierdnob. Having another wierdnob with the cogs is 180 points so less than an ardfist and gives 1-2 more casts, buffs the army and you dont feel tied to stay in one place.

You could be on to something here.

I just love the increased range and damage from the weirdfist however.

Maybe the balewind isn't necessary and you can go with the cogs instead since foot of gorking doesn't need line of sight.

Problem is, if you don't get enough range on foot of gork, it stomps your own units.

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You could always put Foot of Gork through a spell portal.

An Allied Cave Shaman's spell through a spell portal is suddenly good too (especially if he's on a Balewind) so you could get some value by chucking a couple of spells through there.

What I do like about the Weirdfist is the extra range and damage, so Green Puke and even Arcane Bolt become very viable.  Probably still just that little bit too expensive to be viable though, with all the restrictions on placement of the Ladz that it brings (as @Rock Lobster points out).

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I think it's just really cool to see the sorts of ideas like you are saying @PlasticCraic and @tolstedt for different combinations possible with the endless spells and wizards, we had none of these options before. It was pretty much 1 or 2 mawkrushas and then choose brutes, gruntas or a combination of the 2... maybe some rock lobbers or a troll hag.

Its easy to sink way too many points into squishy casters, but you can do some really cool things that will surprise people. The umbral spell portal is a really cool one to use. When you mentioned foot of Gork was a non line of sight spell, it made me reread the spell portal and realize it grants line of sight and not just extra range from the 2nd portal. Sort of obvious now but I wasn't thinking about it at the time. This seems essential if you are using a battery of wizards since you can hide them behind some los blocking terrain and extend your range by 18" which for foot of Gork and green puke gives you that 36" range, as well as the cool gobbo ability. You can even use the troll hags curse offensively early to give their best missile unit -1 to hit and -1 armour save which is cool.

Using this with the malevalent maelstrom is potentially cool (considering the spell isn't that good normally) - use the spell portal to drop the malevalent maelstrom next to the enemys key casters and you get an additional dispel attempt against each spell (and the chance to explode).

Another thing that might be fun to try is 2 of the cogs. From what I understand (and I may be wrong) you can have more than 1 of the same endless spell purchase and more than 1 active, but you can only cast the same spell once per turn. So if you had 2 wizards with cogs, first turn you pop 1, 2nd turn you pop the 2nd to give you for that critical 2nd turn charge +4 movement and +4 to charge (which for Ironjawz is +5), you can then do your face wrecking charge and switch these guys to generating additional spells potentially or keeping movement high. Since cogs is unlimited range for the buff you can make it so it cannot be dispelled. It effects your opponent though so you need to be damn sure the movement helps you more than it helps them - at least you will always get to use the bonus first. Alternatively if you have magic superiority (i.e. the opponent has no or one caster) you can use the slow time ability to give your guys 2 additional spells each and blast away for a barrage of mortal wounds.

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13 hours ago, Rock Lobster said:

 Another thing that might be fun to try is 2 of the cogs. From what I understand (and I may be wrong) you can have more than 1 of the same endless spell purchase and more than 1 active, but you can only cast the same spell once per turn

You can only have one copy of an endless spell.

The opponent could cast another copy if they were feeling generous.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So how is everyone feeling about the change to faction ability? Good for gruntas and mawcrusha but hurts for everyone else. I've not had the opportunity to check the realm stuff yet but the GH 2018 seems to be a small loss for us?

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On 6/30/2018 at 8:17 AM, cronhour said:

So how is everyone feeling about the change to faction ability? Good for gruntas and mawcrusha but hurts for everyone else. I've not had the opportunity to check the realm stuff yet but the GH 2018 seems to be a small loss for us?

It is really interesting, I had not noticed the change until it was pointed out on a forum. It does make the double Krusha list very appealing. It's a pretty low chance of going off but it does pretty much guarantee a Krusha charge. The thing is, the more krushas that go in, the less cheaper characters are there to trigger the buff.

This makes the Cogs even more valuable for the ironjawz (and the first thing you should do each turn) as the extra 2" move also helps you for random destruction, keeping your Brutes and ardboyz still at 6" move and giving your maw krusha a whopping 14" move followed by a 14" move in the movement phase. No question you will fly across the board.

Means in a couple of games the double or triple krusha list will surge forward and engage turn 1 with a lot of pain caused.

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Honestly I think it's a buff to some aspects of it but a targeted nerf to others.

Specifically it really benefits small units and characters, for example units of 5 Brutes as if they are slightly out of 12" they were unlikely to be IN 6" anyway. For larger units, ie. max str Ardboys, it's a nerf specifically designed to hit them.

It also hurts units of 6 GG's for the same reason, their bases are so large it's going to be a task to have them all in 12".

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