AoS 2.0 Desctruction Changes

[PlasticCraic]

15 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Bloodtoofs are fine.

For one, your only using one Realmgate anyway so its not like you can actually use it. 

That's the issue - you can actually use it.  Currently you can use it to deep strike.  If there is only one on the table (which would be the one you've bought with your Batallion), you can set up within 6" of any table edge (no minimum distance from enemy units).  And because you set it up within enemy territory (not "wholly within"), on the diagonal it can be a toenail in their territory and a little over 5" in yours.  So it's actually a pretty powerful tool at the moment.  

In the future, with the new scenery warscroll, it looks you will not be able to do this because you can only move through from one to the other.

The Batallion does have other things to recommend it, so RIP was probably a bit strong, but it is losing some significant functionality with the new Realmgate warscroll.

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

That's the issue - you can actually use it.  Currently you can use it to deep strike.  If there is only one on the table (which would be the one you've bought with your Batallion), you can set up within 6" of any table edge (no minimum distance from enemy units).  And because you set it up within enemy territory (not "wholly within"), on the diagonal it can be a toenail in their territory and a little over 5" in yours.  So it's actually a pretty powerful tool at the moment.  

In the future, with the new scenery warscroll, it looks you will not be able to do this because you can only move through from one to the other.

The Batallion does have other things to recommend it, so RIP was probably a bit strong, but it is losing some significant functionality with the new Realmgate warscroll.

The real reason to take the Realmgate is simply for the +2 to bravery for it just being there. If you can actually use the Realmgate then thats a bonus

[DanielFM]

Hi, are the changes to the GA Destruction Traits and Artifacts on Page 1 the only ones there was?

We haven't been able to grab the Big fat Core book (thinking GA allegiance would be in the GHB we bought, how naive ? ) and a friend of mine needs ti know it for his Moonclan. A picture through PM would be very much appreciated if it's allowed.

[Imperial]

1 minute ago, DanielFM said:

Hi, are the changes to the GA Destruction Traits and Artifacts on Page 1 the only ones there was?

We haven't been able to grab the Big fat Core book (thinking GA allegiance would be in the GHB we bought, how naive ? ) and a friend of mine needs ti know it for his Moonclan. A picture through PM would be very much appreciated if it's allowed.

Just got Core Book. I will update first post later today 

[Imperial]

Updated 

[broche]

i'm not seeing generic allegiance in GHB? are they in Core Book?

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, broche said:

i'm not seeing generic allegiance in GHB? are they in Core Book?

Yes.

My guess is they are not planning for them ever to be updated thus they are found in the core book while others such as IJ or Fryeslayers can be found in the GH.

[Sheriff]

I can't find the gutbusters or grot abilities in the books anywhere, I'm sure they said last year we'd get something. 

[xcom99]

On 7/7/2018 at 10:14 PM, Sheriff said:

I can't find the gutbusters or grot abilities in the books anywhere, I'm sure they said last year we'd get something. 

I was disappointed to see that myself. 

That and the Gutbuster battalion is missing.  Anyone know if that us coming back, or if it's gone for good?

[broche]

FAQ update today in core rule. Nothing huge, but it clear some confusion. 

the two most notable change for me are Allies cannot have artefact, and that if you're equidistant to more than 1 model, you need to finish pile-in as close as to ALL of those model.

[Davros]

Also in FAQ, if your army uses non general battleline you no longer can use the Grand alliegence abilities.

This will really change some lists.

[Malakree]

43 minutes ago, Davros said:

Also in FAQ, if your army uses non general battleline you no longer can use the Grand alliegence abilities.

This will really change some lists.

Only if your faction has allegiance abilities.

So no beastclaw, ironjawz or bonesplitterz running Destro abilities.

The rest don't have their own so are allowed to use the GA:Destro abilities.

[blueshirtman]

Wait, so beastclaw players will be forced to use the beastclaw ones? meh. Well at least nothing important got nerfed, that is good and not obvious to GW, when dealing with destruciton goes.

[Davros]

2 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

Wait, so beastclaw players will be forced to use the beastclaw ones? meh. Well at least nothing important got nerfed, that is good and not obvious to GW, when dealing with destruciton goes.

Nearly worth just being General Destruction....................nearly

 

Another reason is allies not being able to have artifacts and the 1in4 rule, both aren't huge as you generally don't run battalions for extra artifacts but the other one can get anoying needing to have 6 beastclaw units to have 2 butchers.

[Malakree]

55 minutes ago, Davros said:

Nearly worth just being General Destruction....................nearly

To be honest a combined Gutbuster+Beastclaw force is going to be close to equal with the pure Beastclaw. Ogors are really solid battleline and 40 points cheaper than mournfang for the same wounds. You lose a save but gain the lookout grot who gives a 6++ for the unit against ranged wounds/mortals, plus RR1's for duelwielding makes their 4+/3+ WAY better.

Against a 6+ save you get the following 

Spoiler

 3 Ogors

 2 Mournfang

For 40 points less that's pretty solid, not to mention the 80 point discount you get on a full unit of 12.

So something like this.

Quote

Leaders
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)

Battleline
3 x Ogors (120)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogors (120)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogors (120)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93

You get 3 butchers, don't have to take none Huskard Thundertusks and the ogor bulls themselves are really good at removing soft units. As an additional bonus you get 140 points of float which I used to grab two awesome endless spells.

This is ofc if you didn't want to take the BCR allegiance abilities preferring GA:Destruction. The BCR version would be this.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders

Leaders
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
- Chaintrap
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
- Chaintrap
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
- Chaintrap

Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98

As you can see the transition from BCR to GA:Destruction is actually really simple and doesn't cost much in terms of efficiency.

[Skabnoze]

Why would you not take a Tyrant?  And probably at least one big block of grots.  The ability to make a block of 60 grots battleshock immune seems really good.  But just using it on the Ogor units seems good as well.

[Davros]

To be fair I do generally run mixed destruction with ogor and grot battleline. 

I just find it pretty funny that the destruction alliegence ability is nearly worth more to Beastclaw than their own alliegence abilities

[PlasticCraic]

In the glory days of OGH, BCR were always running GA Destruction abilities!

Then they nerfed the Destruction move.  And Battle Brew.  And Bellowing Tyrant.  And The Talisman of Protection.  And Nothing Left Standing. 

The fact that it's possible for people even to consider the battered-into-oblivion GA stuff over the unchanged BCR Allegiance Abilities says a lot about that book, none of it particularly flattering!

[Imperial]

On 7/23/2018 at 5:55 PM, broche said:

the two most notable change for me are Allies cannot have artefact

I see only restriction for current allegiance! So i think we can still get realm spells and artefacts to allies! 

[Davros]

No artifacts for allies period. Page 7 of the core rule designers commentory.

 

To further the point the following question in the page reinforces it.

Q: A Sylvaneth Gnarlroot Wargrove can include an Order 
Wizard, and a Sylvaneth Winterleaf Wargrove can include 
an Order unit. Are such units allies? 
A: Yes they are. However, because they are part of 
a Sylvaneth warscroll battalion, they do not count 
towards the number of allied units you can include 
in a Sylvaneth army, and their points will not count 
against the number of points spent on allied units for a 
Sylvaneth army in a Pitched Battle. Note that although 
they don’t count against these limits, for all other rules 
purposes they are treated as being allied units, and 
therefore can’t be given artefacts of power, know spells 
from its spell lores, and so on

[Imperial]

3 minutes ago, Davros said:

No artifacts for allies period. Page 7 of the core rule designers commentory.

 

To further the point the following question in the page reinforces it.

Q: A Sylvaneth Gnarlroot Wargrove can include an Order 
Wizard, and a Sylvaneth Winterleaf Wargrove can include 
an Order unit. Are such units allies? 
A: Yes they are. However, because they are part of 
a Sylvaneth warscroll battalion, they do not count 
towards the number of allied units you can include 
in a Sylvaneth army, and their points will not count 
against the number of points spent on allied units for a 
Sylvaneth army in a Pitched Battle. Note that although 
they don’t count against these limits, for all other rules 
purposes they are treated as being allied units, and 
therefore can’t be given artefacts of power, know spells 
from its spell lores, and so on

In this FAQ gw say about SYLVANTH artefacts of power and spell lores. We have Malign Sorcery expansion with independent artefacts and lores of realms

[Davros]

The important part of that answer was again showing that allies can't be given artifacts of power. All items, realm weapons, lanterns for Stormcast, demonic traits from Khorne Bloodbound, artifacts of destruction all of them come under the heading artifacts of power.

Note that although they don’t count against these limits, for all other rules purposes they are treated as being allied units, and therefore can’t be given artefacts of power, know spells 
from its spell lores, and so on

 

If you are an ally you get no fancy toys. You only get whats on your warscroll.

The only thing contrary to this is they can still cast the endless spells you paid for and the spells of the realm you are battling in.

 

Even though this example used Sylvaneth it holds true for all armies. This includes, but not limited too, the goregruntas in Brago's Beasthammer as another example.