Immersturm Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said: Not exactly true. The Prime with special weapon got 3A/4+/3+/-1/2D which is quite significant as something 100 pts. On average we are talking about 2 wounds before saves. Not something to write home about when compared to any of the Elite ones. Having said that, I am not sure what the damage per point is, so the Liberator might pull ahead. It is just that the 4+ hit has always let me down, to a point where I only ever trust Starsoul maces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Turragor said: Yep plus 6 more grand weapon attacks in the unit. Vanguard double wounds on 6s for all the libs. I'll be trying it once I'm rich and hve painting time for 5 more libs and - oh my - 6 boxes of prosecutors I believe Vanguards is +1 on damage? Also you might take a look in Harbinger Chamber. It gives everything inside +1 to hit and can work with Vanguards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, Immersturm said: On average we are talking about 2 wounds before saves. Not something to write home about when compared to any of the Elite ones. Having said that, I am not sure what the damage per point is, so the Liberator might pull ahead. It is just that the 4+ hit has always let me down, to a point where I only ever trust Starsoul maces. Main problem of Librator is always footprint. On damage wise it is very point effective. Remember fighting most elite troop like hero, monster and Kunoth hunter or Draconith Guard will give them +1 to hit thus the Prime is almost as effective as one retributor Prime but 55% cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said: I believe Vanguards is +1 on damage? Also you might take a look in Harbinger Chamber. It gives everything inside +1 to hit and can work with Vanguards. Hmm maybe. I might be misremembering double as it is in effect so for 1 damage libs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 No it's make 2 wound rolls. Pretty hefty. 13 hours ago, Aeonotakist said: Also you might take a look in Harbinger Chamber. It gives everything inside +1 to hit and can work with Vanguards. I had a look and, I mean, it looks superb combining this with the vanguard wings BUT the points cost of the formations (540 :S) is a lot. It means only 3 x 5 Liberators can be taken. I'd also much prefer a LCoD than LC in this I think: Leaders Lord Celestant (100) Lord Relictor (80) Knight Azyros (100) Lord Castellant (100)Battleline 5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammers 5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammers 5 x Liberators (100)- WarhammersUnits 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)Battalions Vanguard Wing (100) Vanguard Wing (100) Vanguard Wing (100) Lords of the Storm (100) Harbinger Chamber (140)Total: 1940/2000 ONE THING I would add is, that with this harbinger chamber, maybe the focus shouldn't be on the liberators at all other than as objective reinforcers. How does 27 x Javelin Prosecutors hitting on 2+ sound? Oh and teleporting as in Warrior Brotherhood. I think, once I'm done with my 2nd army I've just started, I know what I'm buying and painting for SC. A whole buncha prosecutors. You might be the coolest guy at a tournament, one of the only ones rocking a mega formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 This one caught my eye too. I think there was some people that ran this formation with some sucess in tournaments. Even if i feel attracted with a full Alpha strike army, i notices several things that are worth saying : - As you noticed, you just spend 540 points into formation, and this is huge compared to the usual 140 of slayer/Bro. 400 points of nothingness... - This is a full shooting army, even half your heroes are better afar than in combat. 15 liberators aren't going to compensate. This also mean that you only act half the game. - 18 range is the perfect spot to get crushed if yu get double-turned. Prosecutors tend to drop in the combat phase - All your heroes teleport in the Move Phase, so you miss 4 activations of your heroes in Da crucial turn. - Painting 27 angels... thoses wings are a nightmare to paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 As a general rule, Jav prosecutors are valuable for the cost. and tanky too. But contrary to the other version, they have nothing to do in the combat phase. And if you disengage, you cannot shoot.... so full loose on the value of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, kozokus said: Painting 27 angels... thoses wings are a nightmare to paint. I think this is probably the most important thing. I'd have to break it down over a half year! One set of wings every friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, kozokus said: 15 liberators aren't going to compensate. Yes I'd rather test the giant Liberator unit in a single Vanguard wing backed before trying a full harbinger I think. I still need to paint prosecutors though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Leaders Lord Relictor (80)- Artefact: Obstinate Blade Lord Castellant (100)- Artefact: Obstinate Blade Knight Vexillor (200)- Pennant of the Stormbringer- Artefact: Relic Blade Lord Castellant (100)- General- Trait: RecklessBattleline 20 x Liberators (400)- Warhammer & Shield 10 x Liberators (200)- Warhammers 5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt BowsUnits 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)- Celestial Hammer & Sigmarite Shield 3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)- Celestial Hammer & Sigmarite Shield 3 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (100)- Celestial Hammer & Sigmarite ShieldBattalions Vanguard Wing (100) Vanguard Wing (100)Total: 1980/2000 Are single hammer and shield worth anything? Is dual hammer better? Is it better just to take another 3 x 3 Javelins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Turragor said: No it's make 2 wound rolls. Pretty hefty. I had a look and, I mean, it looks superb combining this with the vanguard wings BUT the points cost of the formations (540 :S) is a lot. It means only 3 x 5 Liberators can be taken. I'd also much prefer a LCoD than LC in this I think: Leaders Lord Celestant (100) Lord Relictor (80) Knight Azyros (100) Lord Castellant (100)Battleline 5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammers 5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammers 5 x Liberators (100)- WarhammersUnits 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80) 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)Battalions Vanguard Wing (100) Vanguard Wing (100) Vanguard Wing (100) Lords of the Storm (100) Harbinger Chamber (140)Total: 1940/2000 ONE THING I would add is, that with this harbinger chamber, maybe the focus shouldn't be on the liberators at all other than as objective reinforcers. How does 27 x Javelin Prosecutors hitting on 2+ sound? Oh and teleporting as in Warrior Brotherhood. I think, once I'm done with my 2nd army I've just started, I know what I'm buying and painting for SC. A whole buncha prosecutors. You might be the coolest guy at a tournament, one of the only ones rocking a mega formation. yes it fits in 2500 game much better. But to be honest LC sometimes is too disappointing. The aura is not effective on Alpha strike turns, and it is extremely easy to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Aeonotakist said: yes it fits in 2500 game much better. But to be honest LC sometimes is too disappointing. The aura is not effective on Alpha strike turns, and it is extremely easy to kill. He or the LCoD Are compulsory sadly for Lords of the Storm. And can't squeeze in LCoD for 2000. 2500 maybe a better environment for the optimal Harbinger chamber. Nice that you can use it in 2000 though. I've not seen many mega formation in matched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Turragor said: He or the LCoD Are compulsory sadly for Lords of the Storm. And can't squeeze in LCoD for 2000. 2500 maybe a better environment for the optimal Harbinger chamber. Nice that you can use it in 2000 though. I've not seen many mega formation in matched. Harbinger Chamber is heavily based on Prosecutors. Usually it is a solid setup since Prosecutors really get nice profile. However it cannot deal with list of extremely high save since the whole army almost have no MW. Also some really clever move can force the Prosecutors to attack enemy from 9' which will lose quite some damage. It is not extremely strong because it relies on one kind of unit which normally doesn't work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Still... it is pretty impressive visually when it is painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 To take it out will be an extremely painful decision. I broke all my wing the first time I take it from Europe to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Warrior Brotherhood players: double Azyros seems to be the most tactical Leader option (pinpoint strikes in more places), but how have you found other options to swap for one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Requizen said: Warrior Brotherhood players: double Azyros seems to be the most tactical Leader option (pinpoint strikes in more places), but how have you found other options to swap for one? I've used the Celestant on Dracoth to great effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Requizen said: Warrior Brotherhood players: double Azyros seems to be the most tactical Leader option (pinpoint strikes in more places), but how have you found other options to swap for one? Normally in friendly game one Azyros is really enough. Take a LCoD with -1 rend or +1 damage to greatly improve the alpha strike effect. LC is also a solid option due to his ranged ability and command skill. if it is really competitive environment that your opponents are very familiar with SE and WB. You NEED 2 Azyros to really make your plan work. Or it will be countered very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofHokuto Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 The club I play at is more casual-competitive so I'm not sure if I'll make many friends using WB/SS alpha strike lists. How's this for something that's a bit more "fair"? Lord Celestant in Dracoth Knight-Vexillor Lord Castellant 5 Liberators 5 Liberators 5 Judicators 5 Judicators 4 Fulminators 10 Retributors 1 Gryph-Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Actually, I ran a similar list before against MW spamming Skryre. It wasn't fair at all. First turn he got crippled and limped on for another two before he was tabled. When compared to a game where I played less alpha strike and more board mobility, I got destroyed by the same list. The difference was striking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofHokuto Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 21 minutes ago, Immersturm said: Actually, I ran a similar list before against MW spamming Skryre. It wasn't fair at all. First turn he got crippled and limped on for another two before he was tabled. When compared to a game where I played less alpha strike and more board mobility, I got destroyed by the same list. The difference was striking. It just appealed to me as a SC take on the classic "hammer & anvil" list. At least it means I can sideline painting up my prosecutors for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It's about being at the right place at the right time without delays. If you have to trust the RNG or hope the enemy positioning will allow it, then odds may be stacked against you. To win, you sometimes need to make your own odds, something SCE are pretty good at between Realmgates, Vexillor and various mobility/deep strike battalions and rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/23/the-vanguard-of-the-storm/ SCE Tzeentch battletome. I'm done boys. Lost. The gold nips will have me again. Im sorry Beastclaws, sorry Tzeentch. They're doing a Tzeentch style SC tome! Oh my heavenly days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 As long as they do right by my Anvils, I'll be super happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Requizen said: As long as they do right by my Anvils, I'll be super happy. I was pondering a different chamber for a painting break for more stormcast. This could be well timed in that regard. All vanguard chamber from another chamber, my force so far> Hammers of Sigmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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