Tomb Kings?!!

[themortalgod]

1 hour ago, Nevar said:

Yes but that is the point.  Other than aesthetics the Tomb Kings were just more skeleton men if you pulled out the chariots and war constructs.

Like stated above by EMMachine above, it would be much more interesting to see the Deathrattle expanded with what were previously tomb king units.  The Tomb Kings themselves were extremely anti-Nagash if you recall, so I am not sure how they would fit into the death faction.  If we were to see a true to form return of Tomb Kings... it would make way more sense for them to return as an Order faction.

However, why?  A couple old world tomb king heroes serving Nagash hesitantly is far more interesting than trying to just bring back Settra's army.

If you are like me and just loved the Egyptian theme, then perhaps some upgrade sprues of Egyptian themed equipment to mix with current units would be a much simpler solution.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Tomb Kings fan... but they are dead in the lore for so many reasons, which I am sure is why they are dead in the rules as well.

Settra was horribly anti-nagash. Which is why when Nagash was like: "Serve of die", Settra decided to fight and die. After Settra was obliterated, Nagash gave the same choice of Khalida who chose to serve. (Thus TKs would then enter into Nagash's umbrella). Its also worth noting that Arkhan was/is a Liche Priest and is also now under Nagash's service. 

Personally, I agree, it is the Egyptian undead theme that attracts me, which is why I also love Thousand Sons in 40k. Though I have always found Khalida to be a really interesting character and her love/hate bond with Neferata created a great dynamic. The other TK characters can stay dead and gone as Settra always felt horribly boring and the others just felt shoe-horned in to give TKs more special characters.  (Though a new scarab character ala prince apophas but more to the Eidolon scale could be damn cool, not gonna lie)

But my point was that "skeletons" are just a race, in the same way humans, or elves, or dwarves are a race. It is totally fine to have more than one faction of skeletons, just gotta keep them distinctly different, which GW failed to do with TKs in the past. (head swaps, and different shields just wasn't different enough) Though they were moving that way in last TK release. Tomb Guard are very unique compared to skeletons from the Vampire Counts camp. 

Personally, I feel TKs never sold well because GW never really tried very hard with them. In the beginning metal upgrades to existing plastics made them much more expensive and more of a pain to build than VC. They also were eternally underpowered in my experience. GW never printed a single TK book where they were even mid pack in terms of power. Those two things coupled together made it very hard to attract players to the faction. This is why when they finally became reasonably good in AoS used prices for them skyrocketed. Even now, more that a year after the OP TK build was nerfed Tomb King models command among the highest prices on ebay of discontinued WHFB lines. There is clearly a demand for TKs, I'd be willing to bet that said demand is bigger than some of the existing outlier factions like Overlords or Fyreslayers but I can certainly see why GW would be hesitant based on poor performance of the line in the past. (Which is why I think GW keeps dropping hints in the fluff, such as the one that started this thread, to test the waters. If each time something like this is noticed a big thread of TK enthusiasm ends up on major forums GW will likely be paying attention)

[KoalaSnok]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

You mean like Manfred saving the day in the old world, totally having Nagash six all the time rotflol #backstab

 

buuuut, I would like to have a  fourth army in the GA... and with Legions, FEC, Nighthaunt (skellis,ghouls,ghost) the  mummie slot is still open. Not sure what else would by sufficiently undead...

?! lycans ?! That would definitely be crazy

They could expand soulblight, although that is unlikely seeing as they were included in the LoN book (unlike nighthaunt). 

[Graftonianman]

The tk skeleton box was dumb. It had 16 figs, compared to the vampire count skele box with 20 at the same price, but included enough bits for 40. It was best to buy a tk box and vamp box together. 

[EMMachine]

Something like a Crimson Dynasty (if you wan't to call them this way) could be easy made without making a second skeleton faction.

Like I said before. Give some units to Deathrattle and make a "Construct" Faction and in the end like in Legions of Nagash give Deathratte und Construct the option to give them a CRIMSON DYNASTY Keyword and Crimson Dynasty Allegiance Abilities. This way we wouldn't need double warscrolls and the Faction could be unique at the same time.

[Kyriakin]

I wouldn't have skeletons at all:

Deathrattle = Skellies

nuTK = Mummies and Constructs

[Graftonianman]

Correct, like how nighthaunt has no skeletons. There’s no need to redo them. A tk edition would only expand the death line, not overlap in any way. 

I would like to hope that TK would be coming, but I’m not optimistic. 

[The Wanderer]

Tomb Kings were always a super cool faction. The problems always came in the rules design. They were arguably the most challenging faction to play GW ever made and in 6th/7th they were borderline unplayable below 2k points. Then they got basically no support in the fluff (this is an ongoing problem for GW, stop making factions, ignoring them in the narrative for 6 years and then wondering why no one plays them) but the model line was always one of the coolest. I know the skeletons were the same as VC with just the extra bitz sprue but those shield and head swaps made basic skeletons 110% more awesome.

[Griffounet]

16 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Something like a Crimson Dynasty (if you wan't to call them this way) could be easy made without making a second skeleton faction.

Like I said before. Give some units to Deathrattle and make a "Construct" Faction and in the end like in Legions of Nagash give Deathratte und Construct the option to give them a CRIMSON DYNASTY Keyword and Crimson Dynasty Allegiance Abilities. This way we wouldn't need double warscrolls and the Faction could be unique at the same time.

Currently, Morghast still get the "reanimant" Keyword so a reanimant subfaction would be a thing in the future. We just need to cross the finger to see a tomb king vibe on it (I hope like somes conversions of Andrew Forrest and Tyler Mengel - see below)

Spoiler

 

[bsharitt]

 

22 hours ago, Honk said:

You mean like Manfred saving the day in the old world, totally having Nagash six all the time rotflol #backstab

 

buuuut, I would like to have a  fourth army in the GA... and with Legions, FEC, Nighthaunt (skellis,ghouls,ghost) the  mummie slot is still open. Not sure what else would by sufficiently undead... 

?! lycans ?! That would definitely be crazy

If there is a fourth death faction that gets fully fleshed out, it'll probably be Soulblight. With technically a full range of troop options and allegiance abilities, they should qualify as a "real" faction. While it probably won't happen this year, I'll bet they're on the list to get a battletome at some point.

That's not to say they won't do a completely new faction like they did with KO and IDK. I'd personally like to see some kind of mad scientist/necromancer faction with patchwork abominations and stitched together monstrosities.

Of course I think there's plenty of room in the current line to expand. I don't know that I would even consider Legions of Nagash to be a real long term faction, I think it was really a stop gap to make death playable just so GW wouldn't have the ridiculous situation of having the main "bad guy" faction be barely playable. I wouldn't be surprised to see Deathrattle at least get filled out, I could even see death mages get some kind of "thrall" battle line unit and become a real army, same with deadwalkers getting some kind of "zombie kings" as leaders and become a standalone playable faction. And of course do Deathlords as a small Everchosen type of battletome. 

[bsharitt]

17 hours ago, KoalaSnok said:

They could expand soulblight, although that is unlikely seeing as they were included in the LoN book (unlike nighthaunt). 

I wouldn't count out Soulblight for getting filled out. If anything, that GW decided to reprint their allegiance stuff to add access to lore of vampires spells(I think the only reason they were in the book and not Nighthaunt, so I wouldn't read too much into it) and not just absorb them into the Legion of Blood is probably a good indication that they will still remain a bit separate and get stuff in the future.

[ZaelART]

I think the closest TK might get to a re-release is a "Chamber of Ruination" type release.

That is, a new Legion (Hey, is Nagash the new Sigmar?) led my a new Mortarch based on constructs and siege weapons.

But who knows, there is totally room for Tomb Kings to be skulking around at the edge of Shyish.

[themortalgod]

1 minute ago, bsharitt said:

 

If there is a fourth death faction that gets fully fleshed out, it'll probably be Soulblight. With technically a full range of troop options and allegiance abilities, they should qualify as a "real" faction. While it probably won't happen this year, I'll bet they're on the list to get a battletome at some point.

That's not to say they won't do a completely new faction like they did with KO and IDK. I'd personally like to see some kind of mad scientist/necromancer faction with patchwork abominations and stitched together monstrosities.

Of course I think there's plenty of room in the current line to expand. I don't know that I would even consider Legions of Nagash to be a real long term faction, I think it was really a stop gap to make death playable just so GW wouldn't have the ridiculous situation of having the main "bad guy" faction be barely playable. I wouldn't be surprised to see Deathrattle at least get filled out, I could even see death mages get some kind of "thrall" battle line unit and become a real army, same with deadwalkers getting some kind of "zombie kings" as leaders and become a standalone playable faction. And of course do Deathlords as a small Everchosen type of battletome. 

I wouldn't exactly call death the main bad guy faction.  That is chaos. (though having an entire faction barely playable wasn't ideal)

Personally, I'm amazed they kept soulblight. I think they should just be rolled into Legion of Blood. I'm also not overly in love with a vampire faction thematically. I've always felt vampires felt more like the leaders of an army, not its backbone which is where LoB sits and I think it works well enough. 

 

 

[bsharitt]

Just now, themortalgod said:

I wouldn't exactly call death the main bad guy faction.  That is chaos. (though having an entire faction barely playable wasn't ideal)

In the current Malign Portents story line they are, which is why GW had to put in a stopgap fix with the LoN book.

[Twisted Firaun]

5 hours ago, bsharitt said:

 

If there is a fourth death faction that gets fully fleshed out, it'll probably be Soulblight. With technically a full range of troop options and allegiance abilities, they should qualify as a "real" faction. While it probably won't happen this year, I'll bet they're on the list to get a battletome at some point.

That's not to say they won't do a completely new faction like they did with KO and IDK. I'd personally like to see some kind of mad scientist/necromancer faction with patchwork abominations and stitched together monstrosities.

Of course I think there's plenty of room in the current line to expand. I don't know that I would even consider Legions of Nagash to be a real long term faction, I think it was really a stop gap to make death playable just so GW wouldn't have the ridiculous situation of having the main "bad guy" faction be barely playable. I wouldn't be surprised to see Deathrattle at least get filled out, I could even see death mages get some kind of "thrall" battle line unit and become a real army, same with deadwalkers getting some kind of "zombie kings" as leaders and become a standalone playable faction. And of course do Deathlords as a small Everchosen type of battletome. 

The idea of a mad scientist faction sounds amazing. If I wasn't already working on a custom faction then I would be drawing up the rules for such a force.

[themortalgod]

6 hours ago, bsharitt said:

In the current Malign Portents story line they are, which is why GW had to put in a stopgap fix with the LoN book.

Fair, but MP is just the "current campaign narrative". That would be like calling Orkz the main bad guy of 40k during the Armageddon campaign. I would still argue that at its core, Death is meant to walk a line between evil and order while Chaos is solidly in the evil camp. 

[TheOtherJosh]

23 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Death is meant to walk a line between evil and order while Chaos is solidly in the evil camp. 

Evil is subjective. 

Do the ends justify the means?

Sigmar ripped souls from their rest and forces them into service... and those that suffer from “ptsd” are zombified and their will and personality along with pieces of their humanity ripped out as they are commandeered into forced servitude with no option for release. Those that are pressed into service are brainwashed into a cult deifying the individual enslaving them ...

Chaos gods are rather forthright in their promises and gifts to their followers.

 ?

[themortalgod]

5 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Evil is subjective. 

Do the ends justify the means?

Sigmar ripped souls from their rest and forces them into service... and those that suffer from “ptsd” are zombified and their will and personality along with pieces of their humanity ripped out as they are commandeered into forced servitude with no option for release. Those that are pressed into service are brainwashed into a cult deifying the individual enslaving them ... ?

Exactly, there is a difference between evil for the sake of evil and evil to justify a means. Both are immoral, but it is what makes Death and Destruction distinct from Chaos.

[Arael_Greywings]

55 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Evil is subjective. 

Do the ends justify the means?

Sigmar ripped souls from their rest and forces them into service... and those that suffer from “ptsd” are zombified and their will and personality along with pieces of their humanity ripped out as they are commandeered into forced servitude with no option for release. Those that are pressed into service are brainwashed into a cult deifying the individual enslaving them ...

Chaos gods are rather forthright in their promises and gifts to their followers.

 ?

Thinking about it... Sigmar is not really a nice god, but I think in either 40k or AoS they are quite Nitzsche... Outmonster the monster to win...

[EccentricCircle]

I would love them to bring back the Tomb Kings in some way, shape or form. It is true that there is a lot of overlap with Deathrattle, in that both armies use lots of basic skeletons. However the aesthetics are so different that the current skeleton kit isn't really suitable for a tomb kings army. Unfortunately this means that to bring them back you would need several new kits. You couldn't just make a new sphynx, catapult and heroes to expand the existing range. Just adding in archers, chariots and shabti would be three more kits for example. I thus don't think there is a way for them to do a DoK scale release for Tomb Kings.

I'll be happy if we just get Khalida back, but I do wonder whether they will make this new Mortarch kit a multi build model like the original one. Since the first Mortarch kit contains three possible riders, will we see something similar for this one, foreshadowing some of the other death armies in the pipeline?

[ZaelART]

An all construct battletome seems almost too easy to make:

Mortarch of Dust (or Sand)

Wizard (lord/hero)

Sphynx constructs

Snake constructs (small and large)

Scorpion constructs

Ushabti (bows/halberds)

Bone giant

Swarms (scarabs, snakes etc)

Artillery

Could make for a small and elite army with Ushabti sized constructs as battleline, no need for skellies or ghosts.

Fluff-wise it could be a new realm of death brought into being in Shyish, but when Nagash goes to consume the minor God of Death that was born there, he thinks that what they're up to is pretty cool and instead makes them a Mortarch - birthing a new construct based Legion.

[Twisted Firaun]

7 hours ago, ZaelART said:

An all construct battletome seems almost too easy to make:

Mortarch of Dust (or Sand)

Wizard (lord/hero)

Sphynx constructs

Snake constructs (small and large)

Scorpion constructs

Ushabti (bows/halberds)

Bone giant

Swarms (scarabs, snakes etc)

Artillery

Could make for a small and elite army with Ushabti sized constructs as battleline, no need for skellies or ghosts.

Fluff-wise it could be a new realm of death brought into being in Shyish, but when Nagash goes to consume the minor God of Death that was born there, he thinks that what they're up to is pretty cool and instead makes them a Mortarch - birthing a new construct based Legion.

This is a great idea, and if GW never does it I suggest making it yourself! If you do I would be glad to help.

[Echunia]

To me it seems like many forget that the latest TK kits were high quality enough to simply be released. The Sphinx, Necropolis knights and tomb guard are good enough to  be rebranded and released again. That cuts the amount of "necessary"  new kits down quite a lot. However, if they do do it, they will probably have a completely new spin, like a construct army previously suggested. It would seem strange to me to make new versions of standard skeletons and so on... But either way, seeing these hints has me super excited. I never understood why they cut TK from AoS (beyond the low sales) since they could have fit so well as a counterpoint to Nagash.

[TheOtherJosh]

3 hours ago, Echunia said:

many forget that the latest TK kits were high quality enough to simply be released

While they’re as good as some of the vintage pieces, and better than others they’re nowhere as good as the current releases.

(Basically anything from WHQ:Silver Tower to present.)

So, they could release for Legends ... but they’re probably not high enough quality for a modern release.

[themortalgod]

8 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

While they’re as good as some of the vintage pieces, and better than others they’re nowhere as good as the current releases.

(Basically anything from WHQ:Silver Tower to present.)

So, they could release for Legends ... but they’re probably not high enough quality for a modern release.

Exactly, also I doubt GW wants to return to the old exaggerated proportion skeletons. I could see the sphynx and snake sculpts repurposed with new crew/riders maybe, but I think at that point GW would just start over with the range. As for Tomb Guard, even though they were pretty awesome for their time, the proportion problem means they likely won't ever return outside of maybe MTO. Personally, I doubt GW will be releasing many hand sculpted anything again in the future outside of specialist ranges and FW.  AoS and 40K's future is digitally sculpted to be 3D printed for casting which is why the quality has jumped so much in recent years.

As for made to order, as of yet, GW hasn't done a MTO run of any plastic models so I wouldn't hold my breath. If I had to guess, we will see a legends release for TKs featuring all the old metal characters and maybe Ushabti and Tomb Scorpions. I'd LOVE to see the plastic kits in a legends release as I missed out on all the modern ones as I was on a hiatus from wargaming when they came out so never picked them up but I just don't see it happening as plastic runs are much more expensive so would need much higher volume to be worthwhile. (probably why we haven't seen any yet)

[Ashtyn]

To be honest, I'd love Settra to come back and add a 2nd family to the death faction. 

A death faction that doesnt belong to Nagash but is out to try and destroy him. Would fit with Settra's comments at the end of the end times and would allow all the light magic the TK used to use to come back into the army and add some flavor to it.