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Sception

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Death March and Lords of Sacrament and basically nothing else is going to eat a whole 2k points, assuming one of those skittle units and the grave guard are maxed out.  Or instead you could max two skittle units and leave the grave guard with five models.  Either way, though, you'll be hurting for a fast hammer unit, what with no dragons, terrorgheists, or morghasts.  Not even any spirit hosts.

Such a list would definitely work better in 2e than now, assuming points changes don't push it above 2k, but I still think you'd be better off skipping the deathmarch and just sinking 50 to 100 points of your army buying 1 or 2 extra command points directly.

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10 minutes ago, Essilia said:

Thanks for your recommandation, I came up with this list:

WarscrollBuilderList (5).pdf

Necro as a general to take Nagashizzar and babysit skellies or grave guards ith the Wight King. Some Morghasts to have an hammer unit and 50 pts left for one more command point.

 

Run the exact list today without the wight king and a unti of wolves and adding another ubti of morghast vs nurgle rotbringers . 

 

Did extremly well , highlight was curse of years coming down to 1+ and removing 6 blight drones . 

 

Pretty happy with how it did tbh , big untis of graveguard and morghast are brutal. 

 

Hope yours do just as well !! Cheers

 

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4 hours ago, Sception said:

And if you play with decent terrain, you might be able to just hide smaller generals out of sight on a gravesite in your backfield, participating in the game only in bringing your units back.

/putnewnagashbackonshelf

/reachforderpy90snagash

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35 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

No, pretty sure that will just be straight up free since its a chance on enemy death 

I think many of these abilities will just change.  For example Kairos becomes pretty busted if he can freely use his unique spell to summon a 5 wound model every turn.  That's an extra 25 wounds for free for a tzeentch army.  Totally bananas unless the spell changes or his points go up by about 80 or you have to use whatever the new Tzeentch summoning currency is.

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1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

I think many of these abilities will just change.  For example Kairos becomes pretty busted if he can freely use his unique spell to summon a 5 wound model every turn.  That's an extra 25 wounds for free for a tzeentch army.  Totally bananas unless the spell changes or his points go up by about 80 or you have to use whatever the new Tzeentch summoning currency is.

Legions was written specifically for 2nd edition so i dont see many changes coming in for it. Tzeentch summoning and seraphon summoning are still up in the air for how they'll change (and they will change)

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Thanks all for the replies to my previous comment, particularly for correcting my incorrect assumption regarding command ability usage.

I do still think that max sized units are not clear cut here. A block of 40 GG/Skeletons takes up a big portion of the 9" gravesite bubble, and I'm not even sure that you can fit 30 Dire Wolves. I suspect you can, but it will be tight. Since it also has to be 9" away from enemy units, you have to keep enemies fully 9" away from the edge of the gravesite bubble in order to summon a large block like that. I'm certainly not suggesting that it isn't doable, but its going to be far from trivially easy. Summoning a smaller unit will be MUCH harder for the opponent to disrupt.

Lords of Sacrament is an interesting conundrum. If the points are unchanged, then it remains a really powerful battalion choice particularly as Necromancers are even harder to pick off. As others have noted though you really don't want Arkhan to be your general though. and thus Grand Host looks like a good home. But then you have to give up the superior allegiance package of Sacrament vs. Grand Host. Brutal tradeoffs are brutal!

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I guess I'm the only one that sees Black Knights go from sub-par to amazing.

Enough of them so that they hurt on charge, and enough to die in 1-2 turns of combat to be risen. The 18" minimum charge is going to be pivotal for objectives. Also likely attack first on charge(pending rules), and 11 3+ 3+ 2D attacks on charge for 120pts.

Its going to be hard to see a unit of 40 skeletons twice in the first 4 turns of a game. They need to move (slowest unit in the game) AND get wiped. Of course, they are still good and you need them for battle line, but BK are going to be really good fast hammers with great objective hunting.

As for general, I'm looking at minimizing liabilities and using the general pass down rule on death a lot.

All up, I think the new resurrect rule is stupid. Its a game changing rule which opponents will despise. Not going to make many friends playing undead.

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Whats about the command abilities of FEC? Do you guys think i will be legal in matched play to plop 10 Crypt Ghouls, 3 Horrors / Flayers or even the Courtiers for 1 Command Point each? They havn't to be a destroyed unit. 

All of your Heroes can use their ability. In a 5 Round Match and a 1950 List with one Battalion you got 7 Command Points and can deploy 21 Horrors worth 1.120 Points! 

More crazy ****** would be able. Imagine a List of 3x 10 Ghouls and 1x Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombiedragon and 1x Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist. 

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Total: 1140 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 58
 

Thats just 740 Points, so 2.000 - 1.140 = 860 Points left = 17 Command Points. Now the fun starts: Placing 5 Infernal Courtiers à 140 Points = 700 Points. And placing some Flayers, lets say 13 (!!) Units of 3 Flayers, worth totally 2.080 Points. 

In the First Round you got an Army of 3.920 Points value... ?

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54 minutes ago, Bademeister said:

Whats about the command abilities of FEC? Do you guys think i will be legal in matched play to plop 10 Crypt Ghouls, 3 Horrors / Flayers or even the Courtiers for 1 Command Point each? They havn't to be a destroyed unit. 

All of your Heroes can use their ability. In a 5 Round Match and a 1950 List with one Battalion you got 7 Command Points and can deploy 21 Horrors worth 1.120 Points! 

More crazy ****** would be able. Imagine a List of 3x 10 Ghouls and 1x Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombiedragon and 1x Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist. 

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)

Battleline
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Total: 1140 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 58
 

Thats just 740 Points, so 2.000 - 1.140 = 860 Points left = 17 Command Points. Now the fun starts: Placing 5 Infernal Courtiers à 140 Points = 700 Points. And placing some Flayers, lets say 13 (!!) Units of 3 Flayers, worth totally 2.080 Points. 

In the First Round you got an Army of 3.920 Points value... ?

They have an old battletome and will obviously get changes in some way, probably some unique resource like previewed for slaanesh, or a specific condition which is hard to meet that often. 

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23 minutes ago, KoalaSnok said:

They have an old battletome and will obviously get changes in some way, probably some unique resource like previewed for slaanesh, or a specific condition which is hard to meet that often. 

With FEC it might be just how much they "ate" as units they deleted.....

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1 hour ago, soots said:

I guess I'm the only one that sees Black Knights go from sub-par to amazing.

Enough of them so that they hurt on charge, and enough to die in 1-2 turns of combat to be risen. The 18" minimum charge is going to be pivotal for objectives. Also likely attack first on charge(pending rules), and 11 3+ 3+ 2D attacks on charge for 120pts.

Its going to be hard to see a unit of 40 skeletons twice in the first 4 turns of a game. They need to move (slowest unit in the game) AND get wiped. Of course, they are still good and you need them for battle line, but BK are going to be really good fast hammers with great objective hunting.

As for general, I'm looking at minimizing liabilities and using the general pass down rule on death a lot.

All up, I think the new resurrect rule is stupid. Its a game changing rule which opponents will despise. Not going to make many friends playing undead.

I have been thinking the same, units of spirit hosts, hexwraiths and black knights look to be pretty nice with the Endless Legions. Especially if you buff em up in the old Tomb king style before they go. (easier now with the command points that allow quite substantial amount of buffing). I suppose a list could be built around that concept quite easily.

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Think about LoN => Ambush with Black Knights or Hexwraiths, do dmg and once they die in the second round you just pop em up behind your lines again for another round of charging..... You could potentially assassinate key targets with overwhelming force (3x5 Hexwraiths) and go full kamikaze on your enemy without wasting a single point.

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4 hours ago, soots said:

All up, I think the new resurrect rule is stupid. Its a game changing rule which opponents will despise. Not going to make many friends playing undead.

Until the release of LoN I had to smile stoically as my army got trounced by every man and his dog. 

It's been great to see the upbeat "oh, you play Death" suddenly change to the disgruntled "oh, you play Death."  

Who needs friends anyway - ha ha!

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59 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Until the release of LoN I had to smile stoically as my army got trounced by every man and his dog. 

It's been great to see the upbeat "oh, you play Death" suddenly change to the disgruntled "oh, you play Death."  

Who needs friends anyway - ha ha!

Well friends are nice, but lets be honest... Tzeentch and Nurgle Players are still somewhat considered "human" and even though they play the heavies cheese we still are friends with them, so it won't be to bad for our reputation ?

To be serious again: We have to see how balance will work out in the new edition. But I, too, won't feel bad for our Faction to be one of the stronger ones again.

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Point changes could very well happen. I've also got a feeling that battalions will change dramatically, be it points wise or in army construction. I base this on nothing more than my own misguided intuition however...  

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the game has so many upcoming changes that it is hard to forsee the new points values.

The keywords like SUMMONABLE give some  high value. The  battaillons become almost mandatory for CP spammers but are too restrictives in army builders (too expensive because of the (mandatory) troop cost)

Same for the magic

same for the new resources (magic? summon essence? etc...)

phhhhh lets still build and paint our mini and see if they play nice in AoS 2

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I think big slow blobs like skellis or guards might be hard to re-summon, but fast units like wolves or knights... charge‘m in to keep your opponent busy and replenish from the mid-/ backfield...

 

but it‘s all guesswork, till the print has dried. My friends start complaining about endless hosts of 400 attack skelli blobs, with Nagash doing cinematic epic fireworks. Let them sweat a bit.

think it is going to be alpha strike heavy

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Well the endless spells preview is up. I'm still not sure how you get them though, seems more and more likely than you choose a realm from where your army hails from and then you get the associated spells. Could be interesting if it's a Matched Play feature and not just an Open Play/Narrative one. I could see myself running a list with Legion of Blood, double dragons, blood knights and wolves and running the Cogs spell to move and charge +2".

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10 minutes ago, smucreo said:

Well the endless spells preview is up. I'm still not sure how you get them though, seems more and more likely than you choose a realm from where your army hails from and then you get the associated spells. Could be interesting if it's a Matched Play feature and not just an Open Play/Narrative one. I could see myself running a list with Legion of Blood, double dragons, blood knights and wolves and running the Cogs spell to move and charge +2".

I think the realm thing works as a "per battle thing" rather than a list building thing.

 

So if your battle is in the realm of beasts, both sides can then get beast spells/artifacts. So it *MIGHT* be a matched play thing if your matched play involves a specific realm battle.

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