AoS 2 and what it means for Destruction

[Thughab]

On 5/15/2018 at 3:26 AM, Kytlock said:

Not gonna lie, I’m seriously contemplating selling my unassembled BCR Icewind box. I just don’t see them getting any love and the changes don’t excite me too much. 

Let me know if you do

[Mr InsaneBear]

On 5/12/2018 at 6:55 AM, Melcavuk said:

No shooting out of combat is a huge buff for destruction armies, if you can tie up their heavy hitting shooters then your characters are safe that much longer to boost/reinforce the list. Getting downfield and locked into the shooters will be more important than ever but it is now a more effective counter to shooting lists.

It does possibly cripple the bonesplitterz since our most effective unit goes to pot if they get in combat. And it limits their targets for all the units already in combat.

[Melcavuk]

To be honest anything that moves bone splittas away from arrow and rukk spam is a good thing. Especially if they rebalance the rest of the army pointswise

[Kanamorf]

19 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

To be honest anything that moves bone splittas away from arrow and rukk spam is a good thing. Especially if they rebalance the rest of the army pointswise

Cheaper boars would make me nearly the happiest man alive. Given that I usually run 30

[kenshin620]

Yea it is a little silly that the most competitive bonesplitterz involves shooting. I think arrer orruks should be decent, not the win condition.

 

They should really improve morboyz. The anti monster thing is ok but they are barely any better at taking on other targets than normal savages.

[Primique]

New Warhammer Community article about turn order; you now roll off to see who gets to choose who goes first in a battleround, it also says that the new persistent spells will interact with turn order. Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness faction focus will be today, they are mainly melee armies so it might give some hints to what is happening with melee.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/16/16th-may-rules-preview-turn-prioritygw-homepage-post-2/

[broche]

I think Bonesplitterzs are a T1 army overall, not just because of rukk. I would argue that kunnin ruk might not even the best version.
Even if they nerft arrowboys, they have access to lot of good units (boar, morboys, big stabbas). So assuming
they neft shooting, Arrowboys will still serve the purpose of mid-range threath. 
They suffered a bit in GHB17 with the unjustified cost increase of their character, but they still performed well.

And let say you still play kunnin ruk. Kunnin ruk want to kill everything anyway. You'll likely just use the big boss 
to kill whatever have engage them in hero phase, then shoot the rest. Maybe list will change a bit, you'll see a layer of spearman
to prevent ennemy to easily engage the arrowboys, ect.

[svnvaldez]

55 minutes ago, broche said:

 Kunnin ruk want to kill everything anyway. You'll likely just use the big boss to kill whatever have engage them in hero phase, then shoot the rest. Maybe list will change a bit, you'll see a layer of spearman
to prevent ennemy to easily engage the arrowboys, ect.

I completely agree. I normally just shoot the unit I’m engaged with, if there engaged with me that means I don’t have to move into range and can hero phase shoot. 

The only thing that will really hurt the Krukk is if you can’t shoot at engaged units. But from the wording so far I have only seen that if your unit is engaged it can’t shoot out of combat. I’m under the impression they can still shoot into combat and shoot the unit there engaged with.

[svnvaldez]

Biggest changes to the Krukk I’m expecting are: 20 points reduction to everything but arrowz, arrowz losing battleline, removing 1 drop getting first turn.

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

Biggest changes to the Krukk I’m expecting are: 20 points reduction to everything but arrowz, arrowz losing battleline, removing 1 drop getting first turn.

I like the "if you drop first get +1 crit" in shadespire or the +1 to the dice roll in 40k.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

The only thing that will really hurt the Krukk is if you can’t shoot at engaged units. But from the wording so far I have only seen that if your unit is engaged it can’t shoot out of combat. I’m under the impression they can still shoot into combat and shoot the unit there engaged with.

The first to finish deploying gets to choose who goes first needs to be nuked from orbit.  That rule is just awful in just about every game I have ever seen.  WFB used to give you a bonus to the roll-off with the intention generally being that finishing deployment gives the enemy an advantage in that they can deploy to better counter your units.  But movement is deceptively faster in Age of Sigmar (and 40k) than it was in older editions and the alpha-strike is such a huge thing a lot of the time in I-go-you-go systems.

[Skabnoze]

Reading the turn order news today, I have to say I am not terribly excited for that change.  They made it sound like there was some big tactical decisions in regards to turn order and the double turn, but with the reveal it is effectively the same as it is now.  The only change is that there is now a tie breaker.  But honestly, the odds of getting a tie are small enough that I simply could care less about that minor addition.  A roll-off tie only has a 2% chance of happening.  It is memorable when it does, and my memory bias prioritizes those sorts of outlier events and makes them seem more common, but honestly that sort of change utterly trivial.

[broche]

31 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Reading the turn order news today, I have to say I am not terribly excited for that change.  They made it sound like there was some big tactical decisions in regards to turn order and the double turn, but with the reveal it is effectively the same as it is now.  The only change is that there is now a tie breaker.  But honestly, the odds of getting a tie are small enough that I simply could care less about that minor addition.  A roll-off tie only has a 2% chance of happening.  It is memorable when it does, and my memory bias prioritizes those sorts of outlier events and makes them seem more common, but honestly that sort of change utterly trivial.

1 out of 6 actually. I think it's a significant change

[Skabnoze]

6 minutes ago, broche said:

1 out of 6 actually. I think it's a significant change

My math was wrong, correct.  I made the statistical error of linking the two events when they are effectively distinct.  That said, it is still not that giant of a change.

Currently, the chance of either player to win the roll-off is effectively 50% since you simply reroll ties and that favors neither player.  Now, the chance of not seeing a double turn is 58.3% and the chance of getting a double turn is ~41.6%.  Your chance to not see one is 16% greater than it used to be, but that is deceptively less than you would think.  In the end, this is going to be a relatively rarely encountered thing.  It will probably be memorable when it happens, but it's not going to happen enough that it will impact strategy at all.  This is an article making big noise about a rule that is effectively a foot-note. 

The rule that says add +1 to your bravery for every 10 models in the unit is a bigger rule and half the people I know are unaware that the rule even exists.

[kenshin620]

1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

The rule that says add +1 to your bravery for every 10 models in the unit is a bigger rule and half the people I know are unaware that the rule even exists.

60 man grot units here I come!

 

Now time to move them......

[Skabnoze]

3 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

60 man grot units here I come!

That was my thought when I reread Battleshock rules and noticed that little gem.

[broche]

@Skabnoze i think it's a nice fix. It doesnt really affect the balance of the game, but it reduce the occurence of double turn (from 50 - 50 to 40 - 60) and slightly speed up game play. For players not knowing the bravery rule: you need to teach them

 

[blueshirtman]

6 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

To be honest anything that moves bone splittas away from arrow and rukk spam is a good thing. Especially if they rebalance the rest of the army pointswise

Well, but do they have something that can  replace them as far as valid base of army goes. Not having one unit that dominates a codex is only good, if you have other choices that are good, but over shadowed by the OP option. But if all the other options, and I have 0 knowladge about bone splitters, are bad and you lose your only good option, that the whole faction stops making sense.

 

Quote

Your chance to not see one is 16% greater than it used to be, but that is deceptively less than you would think. 

16 in 100 games. I thought it was higher, but I guess it stays more or less the same.

[Kanamorf]

The die roll is only one part of the proposed changes to turn priority. They have already also hinted at persistent magic and batallion abilities influencing the order. Thats 3 changes in on day. I can't see why there is so much negitivity about it. We still get to keep double turn, one of the differentiators for AoS, and you can make choices in army composition and on field to help/hinder the turn order. 

Win Win as far as I am concerned

[JayJay11]

Hello Guys,

I think for all of us the Change of Shooting is a big win. For Ironjawz the Gorefist with the Pigs is now really strong! I love my Ironjawz (even if I loose pretty much, but It's ok if I can Smash some faces ;))

Hope the new Edition will bring even more fun than this now (I'm not a tournament Player).

Greetings from Germany!

[Primique]

New Warhammer Community post is about the Ironjawz! Gordrakk, the Cabbage and Ardboys are all getting points reductions. Also we have atleast one rule for the Maw! It does D3 Mortal Wounds for every unit it moves across as well as knocks their bravery down by 1 for the rest of the battleround.

Hopefully this means they'll tweak the rules so our buffs go across both combat phases. The maw sounds pretty good already, you can run it in front of something to soften a unit up a bit also can help a lot by saving units from tarpits.

 

 

[Fungrim]

Maw Krusha price drop again, I'm so ridiculously happy  ?

[kenshin620]

It'll also be interesting to see the maw and other "persistent spells" be used for blocking. They all look like they have a pretty decent footprint.

[Zitroni]

30 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

It'll also be interesting to see the maw and other "persistent spells" be used for blocking. They all look like they have a pretty decent footprint.

I think they are not that big. All casters are standing very much in the background when you look at it. Hm, not sure about that.

[Primique]

5 minutes ago, Zitroni said:

I think they are not that big. All casters are standing very much in the background when you look at it. Hm, not sure about that.

I heard elsewhere that the Maw is about the size of a stonehorn. What I want to know is how we get them onto the board, I understand they'll be cast by a relevant wizard but do we have to pay points for them? Command Points? I hope they'll go into it soon.