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AoS 2 and what it means for Destruction


Soulsmith

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1 hour ago, heywoah_twitch said:

As a BCR player I'm concerned, as all these new overhauls for magic and command powers seems great, except we don't have command abilities or magic.

I mean there's no point getting worked up with so much info yet to be released of course.

Well, I feel that they will probably end up redoing some of the early battletomes and may do an extra model wave for some of them.  Ironjawz and Beastclaw feel like they both could use that. Beastclaw was just created from a handful of existing kits and it is pretty limited.  I would not be surprised at some point to see a mounted Beastclaw shaman or some such.

But until that point you could always take a FireEater or Butcher as an ally.

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4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

 

But until that point you could always take a FireEater or Butcher as an ally.

Yep or depending on what the spell lores are like, maybe multiple Fungoid Cave Shamans as cheap access to the lore. 

It's really all up in the air right now (will Allies still work in the same way?) but there is some potential upside there.  

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38 minutes ago, Condottiero Magno said:

and one for generic Greenskins, as I'd like to use those mercenary orcs, without switching to generic Destruction.

Maybe its me, but I get the feeling greenskins may be folded into ironjaws and become their version of bloodreavers/marauders.

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15 hours ago, Anaticula said:

At this point we just have to wait and see.

But one thing is a major win for us: Shooting out of combat is banned! That means that we can now strategically engange shooting units to block them from shooting on our most important units. Great stuff.

Grot wolf chariots are 40 points each just sayin... 

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2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Great shout!  And hyper mobile.

Yeah I already wanted them in my list but can't face more painting. This makes it a no-brainer (ceteris paribus).

2 of them gives you 8 wounds of super-mobile chaff that could get forward about 24'' turn 1. charge into side of some ranged enemy threats, and you can probably survive a combat retaliation if well-positioned. Then depends on what the new rules is, but presumably they will then draw away at least half of that units ranged attacks for a turn. 

Not bad for 40-80 points! 

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My initial thoughts on destruction for 2nd Ed, but of course it's too early to place bets really. 

  • More resilient artillery (crew not seperate anymore, probably)
  • Fast cheap chaff chariots can shut down enemy ranged attacks
  • Multiple little heroes become useful (many command abilities, dead heros not as big of a deal)
  • Magic spell list available

Not seen any bad news for the little green dudes so far. (which after the disastrous GHB2017 was not hard to ensure). 

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i'm eager to see, obviously this will shuffle the meta. If they nerf shooting in general that can only help Destruction overall. However i really hope the avoid the trap of going too rule-heavy. 

What's cool with Sigmar is that it is a complex game with a simple rule set. So pretty easy for new players to start. If they complexify too much that will create a gap that will drive new player away (short term you'll cross sell more to 40k crowd i guess)

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Better magic and more use out of command abilities, no shoting in melee and focus on a lot of small cheap heros. I guess it is nice for people playing some sort of non rukk orcs. For my BCR it feels as if GW thinks they weren't nerfed enough, as we don't have any of those things. All we need now is some rule that lets only foot battleline units hold objectives, so GW can be done with us. 

I hope the next general handbook will have some serious points drops for beastclaw raiders.

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45 minutes ago, blueshirtman said:

Better magic and more use out of command abilities, no shoting in melee and focus on a lot of small cheap heros. I guess it is nice for people playing some sort of non rukk orcs. For my BCR it feels as if GW thinks they weren't nerfed enough, as we don't have any of those things. All we need now is some rule that lets only foot battleline units hold objectives, so GW can be done with us. 

I hope the next general handbook will have some serious points drops for beastclaw raiders.

I would also not rule out GW updating a number of warscrolls due to the impact of the new edition.  I would think that most of them would carry over without necessary changes since cost updates are handled by the GHB, but core rule changes means that there will be some warscrolls that will require errata.  I can certainly see certain factions requiring a bit of adjustment.

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51 minutes ago, Kytlock said:

Not gonna lie, I’m seriously contemplating selling my unassembled BCR Icewind box. I just don’t see them getting any love and the changes don’t excite me too much. 

wouldn't the nerf to shooting help them a bit?

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4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I would also not rule out GW updating a number of warscrolls due to the impact of the new edition.  I would think that most of them would carry over without necessary changes since cost updates are handled by the GHB, but core rule changes means that there will be some warscrolls that will require errata.  I can certainly see certain factions requiring a bit of adjustment.

You're absolutely right.  If, as has been rumored, reinforcement points have been eliminated for summoning then all the existing warscrolls that allow limitless summoning will be adjusted, which means GW is fine with large scale errata to warscrolls for the new edition.

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1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

You're absolutely right.  If, as has been rumored, reinforcement points have been eliminated for summoning then all the existing warscrolls that allow limitless summoning will be adjusted, which means GW is fine with large scale errata to warscrolls for the new edition.

Also bear in mind how GW releases 40k 8th edition a year ago.  While they did invalidate all of the existing codexes and make a clean shift, they also put out a full set of rules for each faction.  In addition, for the most part the full codex for many factions has often been just small tweaks to much of those initial rules and the addition of stratagems and whatnot.

The point is that the GW rules team seems willing to put in serious effort when they need to.  So I would not rule out a fair number of updates being a possibility.

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15 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Also bear in mind how GW releases 40k 8th edition a year ago.  While they did invalidate all of the existing codexes and make a clean shift, they also put out a full set of rules for each faction.  In addition, for the most part the full codex for many factions has often been just small tweaks to much of those initial rules and the addition of stratagems and whatnot.

The point is that the GW rules team seems willing to put in serious effort when they need to.  So I would not rule out a fair number of updates being a possibility.

I think some people have a very reasonable skepticism of GW rules that even the past year and a half of AoS awesomeness has not assuaged.  I am not one of those people.  Right now my faith in GW's ability to deliver is higher than at any point in the past.  

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@Skabnoze I think the key difference here is that they have said that all existing Battletomes will remain valid, whereas the 40K Codices did not.  So it won't be the same kind of clean break.

I should say that I think this is probably more likely due to not wanting to put customers' noses out of joint than due to lack of effort on their part - a lot of the Battletomes are relatively new, and it probably takes just as much effort to work around current Tomes as it would to start from scratch, so I don't think they're just taking the easy option in all of this. 

But because they are working within that significant constraint, I think the surgery will not be as drastic as it was for 7th -> 8th ed 40K.  Of course we will see significant changes, but not to the extent of rewriting the extensive Battletraits, Spell Lores, Prayer Lores and Warscrolls that would be needed to unravel the Impenetrable Saves -> Mortal Wounds Proliferation -> Ignore Mortal Wounds Proliferation that is the current paradigm.

(Not that they might choose to do that anyway - that's just my opinion on how I would like to have seen things done differently if we could go back in time / start over with a clean break, but maybe I've got it all wrong).  Let's see what happens anyway, I'm looking forward to a refresh and seeing how it all shakes out ?

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One of the differences between 40k and AoS is that the battletomes are mostly auxiliary rules for a faction rather than unit rules.

If they release a new GA: battletome for all of the 4 alliances that would update the warscrolls without removing the battalions, alleigances or other things contained within it.

Much in the same way that index xenos still has the rules/points for drukhari kabalite trueborn as elites which remain legal as written in it. However because the shredder gained a new profile in codex drukhari that is the legal weapon profile not the one on the trueborn datasheet.

It's the same for AoS, they can update the warscrolls but still keep the battletomes legal.

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@PlasticCraic I hear what you are saying and for the most part I agree with you.  I never meant to say that they were doing a full break.  This seems more like an iteration of the rules rather than a major overhaul.  My point was more that they have shown lately that they are willing to put in a fair bit of work when they have to.

Yes, they did say that all of the battletomes will be compatible, but they did not really elaborate much on that.  There is a lot that was not said.  For example, they did not say that no changes would be made through errata to existing battletome or even that the entirety of a battletome would stay current.  They also did not say for how long most battletomes would remain useable or if they were going to work to rewrite some of them.

This is all speculation on my part.  They may make hardly any changes to warscrolls and battletomes and they may have no immediate plans to replace some of the older books.  But then again they might.  Personally I hope they do because I think the game would be healthier if they reworked some of the older stuff - especially with a new edition on the way.  We will see!

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