Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[Aelfric]

Seeing as summoning has changed, and each faction has it's own in-game way of doing it, will this be the end of reinforcement points?  If reinforcement points are still around, I'm going to presume that they won't count towards points not spent on units and therefore not contributing to command points.

[Waiyuren]

1 minute ago, Aelfric said:

Seeing as summoning has changed, and each faction has it's own in-game way of doing it, will this be the end of reinforcement points?  If reinforcement points are still around, I'm going to presume that they won't count towards points not spent on units and therefore not contributing to command points.

Yes, reinforcement points are gone as far as I can gather from what has been revealed so far; points can only be spent on units (including battalions), and extra command points.

[Chikout]

There are still a few things we don’t know about endless spells. Can you unwind them on the same turn you cast them?  I hope not. Let’s say Nagash uses the portal, a counter balance to the power is that he should be vulnerable to return magic in the next turn. I would like to see a rule where the casting player cannot unbind a stationary type spell at all, and a player may only unbind a predatory spell if the other player was the last to move it.

Also he is not going to be hand of dusting anyone in the first turn, unless he goes second in the first turn and the opposing player is careless.  You will probably need space to place the model so an opposing player can set up a three inch bubble around their most important heroes. 

Can magicians unbind back  through the portal? This would be another nice balance that would mean Nagash would almost never be able to cast spells without the possibility of an unbind.

 

[Lousy Beatnik]

Crystal wall is interesting, I thought it was just terrain but it's on a gaming base. Nothing too special though, most people could make their own

[Richelieu]

35 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Also he is not going to be hand of dusting anyone in the first turn, unless he goes second in the first turn and the opposing player is careless.  You will probably need space to place the model so an opposing player can set up a three inch bubble around their most important heroes. 

He can with Arkhan's command ability.  

[Chikout]

25 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

He can with Arkhan's command ability.  

Forgot about that. That is certainly a potent combo. I wonder how many points those two will cost in the next edition.

[AverageBoss]

6 hours ago, Gorthaur said:

I was kind of thinking of diving into AoS with the new edition but i'm not liking what i'm hearing about the summoning and stuff. If this becomes a bad thing might have to consider lowering the points level of standard games. I figure if i'm fielding more than 100 models then the game is getting way too big. I prefer games that are a bit bigger than skirmish, but not huge. And this summoning stuff seems like a way to bloat the game and make you buy more models. I also kind of liked the simplicity of how AoS seemed over 40k, but now GW seems to be making it more complicated...or at least that is what its sounding like at a glance.

Your model count will depend entirely on which army you play. At 2,000 points, armies can range from 15 to over 400 models. I myself have both a 25 model army, and a 95 model army at 2,000 points.

Further not every army will be getting summoning. Those that do will have unique limitations, and will likely only get 1-2 significant units a game (based on Plague chart and LoN rules). And some armies that summon are not making new models, but recycling old ones (undead).

[Gorthaur]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

Your model count will depend entirely on which army you play. At 2,000 points, armies can range from 15 to over 400 models. I myself have both a 25 model army, and a 95 model army at 2,000 points.

Further not every army will be getting summoning. Those that do will have unique limitations, and will likely only get 1-2 significant units a game (based on Plague chart and LoN rules). And some armies that summon are not making new models, but recycling old ones (undead).

Well the stuff that was catching my eye aesthetically was all the undead stuff. Not too keen on stormcasts, ogres, skaven etc. There's just something about classic skeletons/ghouls/wights and stuff. I had no interest in ever reaching 2000 points to begin with. It makes sense that undead would be able to re animate troops already fallen in battle. As opposed to Seraphon who could or should to some extend be able to 'will' more soldiers onto the field. I'm probably just going to have to wait and see how the nighthaunt turn out.

[Redmanphill]

Has it been mentioned that casting spells is still in the hero phase? I’m guessing we will have a separate magic phase slotted into the space between movement and shooting. It makes sense with the umbral portal spell, you need to be within 1” of it but you can cast it up to 12” away.

i guess the hero phase is busy enough with various abilities going off.  Moving magic to another phase lightens the load somewhat.

[Enoby]

I keep hearing that every army will be able to summon in some way, but have GW actually said that? It seems strange that, if everyone could do it, they'd only go over a few armies' options to do it (e.g. the 'what will you summon?' picture only has summoning down for a few armies). I've seen them say that every army will get something exciting, but that doesn't equate to summoning. 

[Kramer]

For people wanting to know how the shooting changed, they spoiled it in the podcast

 

[calcysimon]

6 hours ago, smucreo said:

 

Anyways, do you guys feel the sun spell is strong? It seems exciting, but if I'm running an army that can reliably cast it (considering it has a casting value of 8 ) I'm feeling like I'd much rather use the portal spell. extra range from a specific point in the battlefield of your choosing seems a lot more exciting than the instakill on a 6+ of a single model, though I guess if you managed to catch a monster or something it could be worth something. 

 

 

Depends, if your army suffer hordes (dok, nurgle daemons, fireslayers) if u can go past 30 or more models with extra safe Vs mortals this spell bypass it. 

[Aeryenn]

9 hours ago, erasercrumbs said:

The Skaven Faction Focus made me sad.  They really don't seem to have any plans for Skaven for the forseeable future, and they really need a lot of love at the moment.  Perhaps next year will be better!

After all this year releases and those not yet released (which are depending on rumours still four factions remaining. Four!) it is a bit unfair to expect GW to cover everything. This year is just amazing. With all those releases it is hard to decide which army to add to our collections, there is just so much getting out this year. Enough attractions if we don't want to take loans to buy all those minis. 

[GeneralZero]

12 minutes ago, Aryann said:

10 hours ago, erasercrumbs said:

The Skaven Faction Focus made me sad.  They really don't seem to have any plans for Skaven for the forseeable future, and they really need a lot of love at the moment.  Perhaps next year will be better!

After all this year releases and those not yet released (which are depending on rumours still four factions remaining. Four!) it is a bit unfair to expect GW to cover everything. This year is just amazing. With all those releases it is hard to decide which army to add to our collections, there is just so much getting out this year. Enough attractions if we don't want to take loans to buy all those minis. 

Indeed about the general AoS feeling, but unfair for Skaven. They have so many superb miniatures yet no real army/battletome for AoS. I'm not that sad because my 2 main have a big up in AoS 2 (SCE & Death) but I'm aiming the skaven for my next project.... only if they have something new (battletome) 

[AlphaKennyThing]

Aha I have to say, I liked the random nature of AoS at times, but Endless Spells have just made things infinitely more interesting.

You see people carefully laying out screens, having a perfect battle plan in mind to counter their opponent. As soon as one of those Purple Suns is plonked down in the middle of the board, the game will look like a tabletop recreation of Mario Kart. Gargants slipping on conjured Endless banana skins and wiping out 40 objective-holding grots, wizards being launched into orbit by their own Balewind Vortexes, 'Ardboyz being eaten alive by a ravenous spell their own shaman just summoned. Summoned reinforcements arriving only to be teleported across the board to somewhere useless. It's going to be bloody mental.

And all the while I shall be cackling manically, whilst my opponent sobs into his battletome, "BUT MUH NETLIST!?!?"

Bring it on, I say!

[GeneralZero]

That is probable but not sure: so many things are missing to project our strategy: resources needed/management, points of new wizzards, etc... Magic can be effective, yes, but at wich cost? And we've only seen few spells on a lonnnnnnng list of 50+

[Xasz]

4 minutes ago, AlphaKennyThing said:

And all the while I shall be cackling manically, whilst my opponent sobs into his battletome, "BUT MUH NETLIST!?!?"

Did you really need to write that?

Who hurt you?

[AlphaKennyThing]

10 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Did you really need to write that?

Who hurt you?

It was a joke mate, I have yet to meet anyone who has actually cried over AoS. Of course people will not be crying, and nor shall I actually be manically cackling in the middle of my local gaming store.

We all know someone who copies and pastes a netlist and has a very clear idea how it is supposed to play and how they expect to win with it, I was attempting humour with a hypothetical scenario where someone's carefully laid plans are ruined by random Endless Spells. This, as the previews have clearly shown, is a very real possibility. Clearly, Mr Xasz, this has hit you in the feels, and as such I apologise!

In response to the erratas on battletomes and such from a few pages back, I think it's great GW are patching things where they notice stuff. It's a shame that it makes using an errata'd battletome a bit less simple, but I think they could come up with a halfway option.

If a battletome is £25 for the physical copy, they could throw in a code for the digital copy. The digital copy is the one that is adjusted after erratas and FAQ changes, which means that buying the physical battletome isn't such a kick in the teeth if there are a lot of changes, as you'll have access to those changes too.

The digital copy could be available for cheaper for those who just want that. 

[Xasz]

2 minutes ago, AlphaKennyThing said:

It was a joke mate, I have yet to meet anyone who has actually cried over AoS. Of course people will not be crying, and nor shall I actually be manically cackling in the middle of my local gaming store.

We all know someone who copies and pastes a netlist and has a very clear idea how it is supposed to play and how they expect to win with it, I was attempting humour with a hypothetical scenario where someone's carefully laid plans are ruined by random Endless Spells. This, as the previews have clearly shown, is a very real possibility. Clearly, Mr Xasz, this has hit you in the feels, and as such I apologise!

It felt more like the usual and common attempt to ****** on competitive players and shame them for enjoying an aspect of the game. Everyone should find their own enjoyment and there is a lot of bickering on boards about this. Many threads devolve into fights between matched and open play, especially in this section of TGA. 

Good we cleared that up.

[Aelfric]

8 minutes ago, AlphaKennyThing said:

It was a joke mate, I have yet to meet anyone who has actually cried over AoS. Of course people will not be crying, and nor shall I actually be manically cackling in the middle of my local gaming store.

We all know someone who copies and pastes a netlist and has a very clear idea how it is supposed to play and how they expect to win with it, I was attempting humour with a hypothetical scenario where someone's carefully laid plans are ruined by random Endless Spells. This, as the previews have clearly shown, is a very real possibility. Clearly, Mr Xasz, this has hit you in the feels, and as such I apologise!

In response to the erratas on battletomes and such from a few pages back, I think it's great GW are patching things where they notice stuff. It's a shame that it makes using an errata'd battletome a bit less simple, but I think they could come up with a halfway option.

If a battletome is £25 for the physical copy, they could throw in a code for the digital copy. The digital copy is the one that is adjusted after erratas and FAQ changes, which means that buying the physical battletome isn't such a kick in the teeth if there are a lot of changes, as you'll have access to those changes too.

The digital copy could be available for cheaper for those who just want that. 

There are still some of us who have yet to own more than a laptop.  My phone does phone calls and texts and that's the way I like it.  I like having the physical book to hold and flick through and add to my hobby collection.  No doubt one day I will be brought into line with the modern world (kicking and screaming no doubt), but even if that happens, I hope that the books will remain an option.  

(If you are going to laugh manically, I hope you have the appropriate moustache to twirl at the same time  )

[AlphaKennyThing]

9 minutes ago, Xasz said:

It felt more like the usual and common attempt to ****** on competitive players and shame them for enjoying an aspect of the game. Everyone should find their own enjoyment and there is a lot of bickering on boards about this. Many threads devolve into fights between matched and open play, especially in this section of TGA. 

Good we cleared that up.

Not at all mate, I love me a tournament as much as I love casual games - I've never quite understood why the two player bases seems to be at odds with eachother. For me, as one of my armies becomes less viable in one, I'll relegate it to the casual list realms, where 9/10 games it's perfectly fun to play!

Looking forward to the time when I have the dollar to constantly buy new things for an existing army to bring it back to competitiveness...ness. I think I'm going to have to buy some new casters for my Ironjawz, mind. Think Grots might be the order of the day!

[AlphaKennyThing]

7 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

There are still some of us who have yet to own more than a laptop.  My phone does phone calls and texts and that's the way I like it.  I like having the physical book to hold and flick through and add to my hobby collection.  No doubt one day I will be brought into line with the modern world (kicking and screaming no doubt), but even if that happens, I hope that the books will remain an option.  

(If you are going to laugh manically, I hope you have the appropriate moustache to twirl at the same time  )

I know exactly what you mean, despite having a tablet I still buy the actual book. You feel like you've got something for the £25 (or equivalent) you've just parted with. If it came with the digital download too, you can go back to you laptop, download the updated version of your battletome via the code, and then post-it note the ****** out of your physical copy. 

[AlphaKennyThing]

Right, we've all seen now the new summoning bizniz and how it's all free (points wise). How do people envisage GW balancing things for factions that don't have any summoning?

I play Ironjawz mainly, so this directly affects me, though I find myself unconcerned (rightly or wrongly!). In my mind there are a couple of ways to balance out the summoning:

a) Provide a reinforcement option that works by meeting certain criteria as an allegience ability, or provide a way of replacing lost units like Death. Basically giving all armies the ability to summon in some way.

b) Reduce points so that armies with no summoning start with marginally more models on the table at the start of the game.

Anyone got any other ideas? 

[Aelfric]

I would rather see summoning restricted to those factions for whom it makes sense lore-wise.  Many factions, at least those with more recent battletomes, have their own special schtik already and it seems that the summoning rules are tied up with those for those factions that have one.  Once every faction has their own schtik, then it should really start to even out.  It also seems to me that what can be summoned is now more restrictive than having 400 reinforcement points and summoning anything you like from your available units. 

I really don't see the need for points changes simply for summoning reasons. 

[Xasz]

3 hours ago, AlphaKennyThing said:

Right, we've all seen now the new summoning bizniz and how it's all free (points wise). How do people envisage GW balancing things for factions that don't have any summoning?

I play Ironjawz mainly, so this directly affects me, though I find myself unconcerned (rightly or wrongly!). In my mind there are a couple of ways to balance out the summoning:

a) Provide a reinforcement option that works by meeting certain criteria as an allegience ability, or provide a way of replacing lost units like Death. Basically giving all armies the ability to summon in some way.

b) Reduce points so that armies with no summoning start with marginally more models on the table at the start of the game.

Anyone got any other ideas? 

I hope/expect there to be some kind of restriction for matched play we are currently not aware of.

If not, I highly doubt this game will have an enjoyable balance when played by the book.

With what we know, armies without access to magic are seemingly already in a bad spot . GW even stated at Warhammerfest(?) that they are aware of this issue.

Summoning and especially point-free summoning is one beast of a system to balance. Not only do you have to manage the difference between armies that can summon and the ones that cannot, but also the powerlevel between each summoning system. This is an insanely hard task, and I might give them the benefit of the doubt to some degree, but they don't have the best record when it comes to handing out free stuff. (*has40kvietnamflashback*)

What is often proposed around here, yeah you could give each army a way to summon but contrary to popular believe, this would make it even harder to balance. (on top of destroying faction identity)

That aside, these new spells are probably equally hard to balance and I am certain, if there are no restrictions or systems behind them (e.g. bound to realms) they are gonna have to FAQ them frequently. Not only do these spells affect units that are already in the game (even if you are a god-tier-designer, you cannot have perfect knowledge of everything that is gonna be affected), but you'll have to consider them each time you design a new Battletome or unit. Which ultimately limits your design space, if you care about balance that is.

Will be really interesting to see how this whole AoS 2.0 turns out. GW will keep us in the dark, because that is what they want, otherwise we wouldn't talk/discuss/argue about all these things with such fervor.

EDIT:

To answer the question, probably point changes for the most part and adding a soft-cap to summoning. Which could be similar and as variable in size as the pool for allies. This way it would scale with game size and you would have a more global setscrew for balancing the game.