Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[rokapoke]

5 hours ago, Karol said:

So totems and stuff like slaughterpriests won't be able to use those new spells? That is a bit sad.

Totems and Priests haven’t been able to use any spells, so these are no different. 

[MacDuff]

Carefully laid battle plans aren't going to survive first contact with Endless Spells. Once those things start bouncing around the battlefield, it's going to make hash of your original intentions. Armies are going to have to adapt with dispelling wizards, nimble forces, and evolving tactics. Big blobs of troops might be the most vulnerable. GW giveth cheaper hordes but taketh away with these spells. I love it because it forces new risk/reward decisions.

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, Xasz said:

They have a realm keyword at the bottom, I take that as an indicator.

Either way, we are still missing a lot of information about matched play and what is and what is not allowed.

If these spells are totally unrestricted and available in any quantity (which I doubt), armies without access to wizards are gonna have a bad time. On top of feeling like a cheap move from GW to sell models (no point costs, ergo bordering to mandatory). I can see tournaments rejecting these realm rules and spells. The same way they ignored several other expansion and campaign books in the past (not strictly revering to AoS).

Again, we are pretty much kept in the dark and GW is not gonna change that until we bought the book. So, I'm only mildly alarmed.

They are clearly usable in any realm since there is a bonus effect for the spell being cast in its realm of origin.

[Redmanphill]

2 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

They are clearly usable in any realm since there is a bonus effect for the spell being cast in its realm of origin.

They are also definitelyfor matched play. What models have GW ever released that we’re not made to be used in all forms of the game? I think these are going to be part of the core rules and won’t be easily disregarded by tournaments. 

I think the new predatory spells are great, I do want to see how an army gets access to them? One per battalion maybe? I see battalions becoming a lot more important to army construction and the possibility of generic ones seems likely.

This is a great time to be involved in the game, every day another snippet of information and another day less to wait for the actual rule book.

[silentdeathz]

2 hours ago, michu said:

That's why I think it would be good to make special matched play rule for Clanrats as allies: they can be used as one battleline choice for any Skaven Allegiance.

Honestly, I still can't believe clan rats (or slaves) ARENT battleline for all skaven clans.

Making Skryre lists etc is so awkward with the way it currently is - especially when the Acolytes f.e are extremely old (and expensive) models. We've just been house ruling them to be allowed in our friendly games.

[Xasz]

10 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

They are clearly usable in any realm since there is a bonus effect for the spell being cast in its realm of origin.

You will probably be able to pick a home-realm for your army and use the corresponding spells, if your army even has access to wizards.

Not the biggest fan of all this, mainly because I question GW's ability to balance the game. Summoning is already going to be really tricky to get right (up till now they've always failed) and adding more wonky things that cannot be accessed by every army seems questionable at best.

Will be an interesting time when the book finally drops.

[Redmanphill]

6 minutes ago, Xasz said:

You will probably be able to pick a home-realm for your army and use the corresponding spells, if your army even has access to wizards.

That’s something I was thinking too. They’ve said that items are now restricted by realms, so why not have to select a realm when designing your army and that determines what you can select with regards to items, spells and so forth?

[Gorthaur]

I was kind of thinking of diving into AoS with the new edition but i'm not liking what i'm hearing about the summoning and stuff. If this becomes a bad thing might have to consider lowering the points level of standard games. I figure if i'm fielding more than 100 models then the game is getting way too big. I prefer games that are a bit bigger than skirmish, but not huge. And this summoning stuff seems like a way to bloat the game and make you buy more models. I also kind of liked the simplicity of how AoS seemed over 40k, but now GW seems to be making it more complicated...or at least that is what its sounding like at a glance.

[GeneralZero]

15 minutes ago, Gorthaur said:

I prefer games that are a bit bigger than skirmish, but not huge

just try elite list of your fav army ;-)

In addition to this, AoS 2 will certainly be a wizzards duels battlefield. You'll need some. You'll need SEVERAL. And for sure, they will be expensive. So, not that many minis...

[Waiyuren]

13 minutes ago, Gorthaur said:

I was kind of thinking of diving into AoS with the new edition but i'm not liking what i'm hearing about the summoning and stuff. If this becomes a bad thing might have to consider lowering the points level of standard games. I figure if i'm fielding more than 100 models then the game is getting way too big. I prefer games that are a bit bigger than skirmish, but not huge. And this summoning stuff seems like a way to bloat the game and make you buy more models. I also kind of liked the simplicity of how AoS seemed over 40k, but now GW seems to be making it more complicated...or at least that is what its sounding like at a glance.

I don't think the complexity is going up too much, but if the model count goes up I imagine the standard point size will drop. Not that GW will do it themselves; they've had a habit of pushing more and more models into the "recommended" game size for as long as I've been playing. More likely the community will decide what they're willing to play.

My local scene only plays 1k, 1.5k at the very most, even in tournaments. If 1.5k with max unit bonuses in ghb18 can buy you a ghb17 2k sized army, the game size here will likely stay where it is, or drop to 750/1250pts.

I also don't see too many spell models showing up either. There aren't a lot of nurgle or sylvaneth players in my area simply due to the cost of the "free" "optional" army boosting terrain peices (which should be brought into line with all other summonable non-unit models in my opinion, i.e. dispellable).

[blueshirtman]

16 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

just try elite list of your fav army ;-)

In addition to this, AoS 2 will certainly be a wizzards duels battlefield. You'll need some. You'll need SEVERAL. And for sure, they will be expensive. So, not that many minis...

Was it said how factions without wizards unlock those spells?

 

9 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

I don't think the complexity is going up too much, but if the model count goes up I imagine the standard point size will drop.

I think it will stay the same and people are going to be expected to get the extra models to cover the points gap, and get the models/units they want for summoning. I also think that summoning is going to be made very flexible, so buying one unit will never actually cover a players needs, and they will buy multiple units or characters to get optimal turn 2-5 summonings.

 

38 minutes ago, Gorthaur said:

. And this summoning stuff seems like a way to bloat the game and make you buy more models.

There might be armies that don't summon, but have enhanced healing or very limited summoning. For stormcasts for example I would imagine they get some sort of unit re use mechanic, rather then creating extra models. Maybe this could make paladins a better option, and a paladin heavy army would be more in line with a skirmish 30-40 models army size. Or maybe they will do something to fix beastclaws and your going to be able to play 10 model armies.

[Brightstar]

2 hours ago, Xasz said:

They have a realm keyword at the bottom, I take that as an indicator.

Either way, we are still missing a lot of information about matched play and what is and what is not allowed.

If these spells are totally unrestricted and available in any quantity (which I doubt), armies without access to wizards are gonna have a bad time. On top of feeling like a cheap move from GW to sell models (no point costs, ergo bordering to mandatory). I can see tournaments rejecting these realm rules and spells. The same way they ignored several other expansion and campaign books in the past (not strictly revering to AoS).

Again, we are pretty much kept in the dark and GW is not gonna change that until we bought the book. So, I'm only mildly alarmed.

Right. The attack spells are really similar to the old vortex grenades, which were fun, but they would have been a headache to tournament players - they were back then - so I imagine these will get banned.

I disagree on a cheap move to sell models. Some look neat, but gw is going to be hard pressed to convince people to buy these over regular models. I mean if i had to choose between the new nighthaunt box or a spiked skull, i would choose the nighthaunt on look. 

In terms of stats/gameplay/mathhammer a unit is a wiser investment - when budget is limited - because a unit can secure objectives, outputs more damage, can block, screen, and buffer enemy moves. In general, buying models for your army will always win out. 

So i think gw will be hard pressed to sell these to anyone but a narrative crowd.  Dont get me wrong i am sure one or two of these  will be game breaking in a combo and will even earn itself some  cheeky net list name like purple screamer star, but most of the time, they will be left at gome in matched play.

[erasercrumbs]

The Skaven Faction Focus made me sad.  They really don't seem to have any plans for Skaven for the forseeable future, and they really need a lot of love at the moment.  Perhaps next year will be better!

[Sigwarus]

I fail to see how the portal endless spell can be balanced. If Nagash uses this he will proceed to debuff and nuke your forces with his eight spells now in range. The earlier tactic of trying to be more than 18" from him is now irrelevant. Can this be balanced without Nagash costing at least 200p more? 

[flamingwalnut]

6 minutes ago, Sigwarus said:

I fail to see how the portal endless spell can be balanced. If Nagash uses this he will proceed to debuff and nuke your forces with his eight spells now in range. The earlier tactic of trying to be more than 18" from him is now irrelevant. Can this be balanced without Nagash costing at least 200p more? 

It is a 2 way portal, so you can throw spells back through. Also, they are dispellable, too.

Overall, I am super stoked for this new Magic stuff. The endless spells seem fun and I have already been trying to theme armies around Realms so I hope so hard that the Realm bonuses aren't narrative only, or I may have to pull some strings as the local event organizer. lol

Balance is a super big concern though. I truly hope things work out, because while I LOVE summoning and big splashy magic and extra themed bonuses, if it all makes people not want to play, it has to go. Fingers crossed!

[smucreo]

really? because how i see it he'll use it to cast hand of dust on your most important model, cast a bunch of damaging spells/debuff and then unbind it. the portal spell with nagash is nothing short of broken imo. 

[Carnelian]

2 minutes ago, smucreo said:

really? because how i see it he'll use it to cast hand of dust on your most important model, cast a bunch of damaging spells/debuff and then unbind it. the portal spell with nagash is nothing short of broken imo. 

I have to admit I am worried about it too. It is better than the current balewind vortex because it works both ways but it's hard to dispel nagash and unlike the balewind, looks like monsters can use them

[Sigwarus]

I it will be up to the community to work with the balance of the endless spells. As a designer you have to reflect on Nagash whenever you create new magic conditions. It's possible that they have done this with a substantial point raise but even if I have faith in the design team I don't think it's been done. 

[someone2040]

59 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said:

The Skaven Faction Focus made me sad.  They really don't seem to have any plans for Skaven for the forseeable future, and they really need a lot of love at the moment.  Perhaps next year will be better!

If a combined skaven book is on the horizon, they're most certainly not going to be telling us in these previews for AoS v2. They've still got an entire range of Stormcast and Nighthaunt to release before pumping people up about whatever comes after that.

Not saying there'll be one any time soon, just saying don't expect any ground breaking news to be coming out of these faction focuses. They're really just giving short spiels on why players of certain factions should be excited about the new edition, whether it's because stuff is going down in points or getting access to cool new spell lores and the like.

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, smucreo said:

really? because how i see it he'll use it to cast hand of dust on your most important model, cast a bunch of damaging spells/debuff and then unbind it. the portal spell with nagash is nothing short of broken imo. 

And we know this with certainty without ever having read the full new rules even once or having played a single game.

Care to share tonight's winning lottery numbers?

[smucreo]

As I see it right now it's worrying for sure. you can make fun of my point all you want, not sure what i did to warrant this pointless sarcastic aggresion, but it's what i feel from what we know now.  Sure, things can change when we get a broader picture on how everything works and such, but this thread has room for speculation mate, and right now this is what i'm feeling. feel free to leave a constructive comment though.

Anyways, do you guys feel the sun spell is strong? It seems exciting, but if I'm running an army that can reliably cast it (considering it has a casting value of 8 ) I'm feeling like I'd much rather use the portal spell. extra range from a specific point in the battlefield of your choosing seems a lot more exciting than the instakill on a 6+ of a single model, though I guess if you managed to catch a monster or something it could be worth something. 

I'm excited to see what Balewind does though since they've stated they reworked it.

 

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, smucreo said:

I'm excited to see what Balewind does though since they've stated they reworked it.

I was just reading through it again and they said they completely reworked it and in the picture, it's surrounded by models, but nothing on top of it. I wonder if may be it's been really reworked and is practically a new spell with a new model. Now that dispells are going to be so long and we're getting an arc node mechanic to increase range, it might make sense for them to gut the rules and start over. Maybe some kind of AoE buff for spell casting or something.

[Brightstar]

3 hours ago, erasercrumbs said:

The Skaven Faction Focus made me sad.  They really don't seem to have any plans for Skaven for the forseeable future, and they really need a lot of love at the moment.  Perhaps next year will be better!

They didnt do much for the Sylvaneth either in their release and they need some things readdressed after the more recent releases - like the dryads and revenants. 

But as others said, this is not the time for battletome rewrites, it is about changing the core. 

LPersonally I would have loved some minor tweaks to the core and a lot more focus aroumd rebalancing the scrolls to adjust it to the changes other battletomes introduced - like they did with LOTR back in the day, but thats not whats happening and so far they have done some brilliant, but unnecessary changes with the game except the new stuff they are adding - endless spells, summoning, etc.

[Rollcage]

33 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

I was just reading through it again and they said they completely reworked it and in the picture, it's surrounded by models, but nothing on top of it. I wonder if may be it's been really reworked and is practically a new spell with a new model. Now that dispells are going to be so long and we're getting an arc node mechanic to increase range, it might make sense for them to gut the rules and start over. Maybe some kind of AoE buff for spell casting or something.

This link

shows otherwise from the same article

EDIT: also curious about that crystal wall on a base thats in front of the saurus, not sure that looks like terrain or a spell

EDIT 2: the crystall wall is sure pointing in a line from that skink priest, so thats probably a spell too

[Richelieu]

I definitely see Nagash as a balance challenge for the new rules.  Maybe GW has solved it, and I will wait to judge until the rules come out, but if they haven't, playing against him will be oppressive.  GW did a great job constraining alpha strikes in GHB 2017.  It would be a shame if they brought them back full bore but with magic instead of even having to put any units at risk.

On another note, nothing I've seen of 2.0 is really a substantial increase in complexity.  You mostly just do one thing when before you would have done a slightly different thing.  

Overall I'm definitely more excited about 2.0 than worried.  It's coming one way or another so I'm going to look for the things I like.