Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[Skabnoze]

24 minutes ago, Thostos said:

So is Ardfist the only way Destruction can bring models back so far?

 

 Its a nice battalion for sure,,though totally relying on the warchanter not getting ganked straight away.

 

The Bonesplitterz Bonegrinz battalion can recycle dead units on a roll of a 6.  But it is also one of those battalions that requires at least one battalion within it.

[GeneralZero]

Every (or almost) army get ist summoning rule, lore/fluff speaking, it is a big n'importe quoi. (except SCE.....yet) This aspect is a bit disapointing. 

If it is this way, I hope that every army will got its big gun/artillery like the new balista of SCE. Death doesn't have one. I like this kind of piece.

[blueshirtman]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:19 PM, Jamopower said:

Why not if you are just playing with your mates?

I don't know about others, but my store doesn't support playing with leaked or non official rules. At the same time, I don't know a single person who could play at home. But no idea how it is for others.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 3:54 PM, TheOtherJosh said:

If you don’t have a large amount of experience in the painting/building aspect of the hobby, or are trying to learn new techniques asking others is pretty good method to meet folks.

only people at the store that paint are people that know the store owner and the store owner himself, they do commissions there is no space for others to paint. But then again I never asked, there is a smaller table that is used only by ccg playing people. So can't say it is impossible.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 3:54 PM, TheOtherJosh said:

For gaming events at the store, suggest it as a “slow grow” league? This encourages folks to buy more stuff?

We have two types of events. normal swiss style tournaments, and in game 1 your rating your rating is based on how you did in last tournament. If there is an odd number of people the lowest people at the store gets a non gaming win, which is me, no one has a lower score then me. Other set of events require you to buy a pre set number of points per week starting with 1250pts. We started a summer event in may and it will take up all summer till people get to 2000pts. Technicly it is a new player tournament, but a lot of the people playing are players who have armies already, but who start a differnt one.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 2:51 PM, Bloodmaster said:

C) All said on my oppinion on your LGS-owner, but go talk to him/her about a coop on a campaigne. It should be in his/her interest as well.

I will do that. All the weekends are taken up by his own events, but maybe in september there will be free time. Narrative games aren't very popular to say the least though. I was thinking, if playing fewer points would make my army better, my expiriance is very limited as far as playing less then 2000pts.

[Jamopower]

15 minutes ago, blueshirtman said:

I don't know about others, but my store doesn't support playing with leaked or non official rules. At the same time, I don't know a single person who could play at home. But no idea how it is for others.

Interesting attitude when the "leaks" are coming directly from Games Workshop

[Qaz]

5 hours ago, tokek said:

Every piece of software you run has bugs in it; as a software QA professional I can pretty much guarantee that. That phone you refer to - filled with software which is riddled with bugs and modern phones do need regular updates unless you want them just as a honeypot for all the hackers out there.

What GW has done is what any responsible company does nowadays, committed to issuing patches for issues as they are discovered. 

I chuckled a bit here. I am an electronics (hardware) design engineer and I assure you that your phone has hundreds of unresolved bugs in the actual hardware known at release. Admittedly mostly non-breaking type a.k.a It has almost  a 'zero chance of causing a negative experience'. Having Errata 'bug fixes' that require you to carry extra papers is much better than ignoring it until the next edition of your battletome 'hardware'. 

Now having read this thread, I am thinking of a way to print nice stickers to blend in the FAQ changes in my battletome. After the new edition, maybe. 
 

I dream of a new revamped Gunhauler~ 

[rokapoke]

9 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

This is a fair point, but GW has a very long history of sending out books that have numerous errors on day 1.  It will happen sometimes, but they could do a lot better in that regard.  If nothing else, their editing and proof-reading has always been on the poor side.

In regards to rules, it is not uncommon to have loop-holes or issues big enough to drive a truck through on the book release.  Most games do run into this issue, but I find that for a number of other companies it is more of a rarity and with GW it can be fairly certain that any physical book is going to have a number of issues.  I still buy them and enjoy them, but I really wish they would put more work into releasing a better product - especially at the prices they charge.  Yes they have a complex game, but so does just about every other game company and many others do a better job at keeping book issues to a minimum.  GW has always just felt sloppy in that regard,.

On a note highly related to your points here, 8 years ago I finished my PhD dissertation. The last 5-6 months of that time were purely devoted to writing and editing the manuscript with the help of both of my research advisors. At the end I ordered a hard copy (because I wanted a physical manifestation of my blood, sweat, and tears) and the first few things I saw were mistakes. Even though three people went through every page of that thing multiple times with fine-toothed combs.

No matter how much time and energy go into a written document, mistakes sneak through. I don’t like finding the mistakes any more than you do, but my personal experience has made me understand them. 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

theoretically couldn't all armies have summonable troops as 'reinforcements' ? with more SCE releases and now uber summoning, "free people" are becoming less and less

[Chikout]

Was just listening to Warhammered on YouTube and they had an interesting opinion about summoning that I had not considered.

The idea that summoning might be a counter to alpha strike lists. 

Currently if a death army loses a couple of big units to shooting early doors, they are going to struggle to stay in the game. Now they have a chance of getting back into the game. What does everyone think?

I was also thinking about the sell more models idea. If I play a summoning army in aos2, I might be a bit more reckless with certain units and use summoning as a way of bringing them back,  rather than buying more models. This is exactly how legions of Nagash works after all. 

 

[Brightstar]

48 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Was just listening to Warhammered on YouTube and they had an interesting opinion about summoning that I had not considered.

The idea that summoning might be a counter to alpha strike lists. 

Currently if a death army loses a couple of big units to shooting early doors, they are going to struggle to stay in the game. Now they have a chance of getting back into the game. What does everyone think?

I was also thinking about the sell more models idea. If I play a summoning army in aos2, I might be a bit more reckless with certain units and use summoning as a way of bringing them back,  rather than buying more models. This is exactly how legions of Nagash works after all. 

 

Thats an interesting thought and it is a great point they made, however it doesn't take into account lists which cannot alpha strike or don't have super ranged attacks in them. Which is a lot of lists in the game the last time I checked.

Its just like the 40k deep strike rule change was designed to counter alpha strikes, but just shifts the meta back in favor of heavy gun lines. Its the same problem here essentially. By their logic: summons counter alpha strikes. So now we need alpha strikes and super power gun lines to counter summoning.  In the end, somebody is going to get nerfed to balance everything out again, am I right?  Though I hope it doesn't come to that because the 40k change was terrible for the game as a whole, but not for net lists bashing at each other.

So instead we can look at these new summoning rules driven more by the narrative than matched play list building and see what they have to offer the game. If it works, fantastic! We just have to hope the points are right.  Besides, we really cant complain about the summoning rules until the GHB is released. Worrying now does not do anyone any good. Unless you dont use points. Even then, it would be more constructive to start debating how to balance this summoning mechanic during games. 

 

 

[blueshirtman]

11 hours ago, Jamopower said:

Interesting attitude when the "leaks" are coming directly from Games Workshop

Doesn't matter, if you can't play with the official book at the store or the store doesn't sell it, you can't play with it. Forger World rules aren't allowed for example too, and no one cares if they have rules or not.

 

1 hour ago, Brightstar said:

Worrying now does not do anyone any good.

I don't know, if you have a list that would get invalidated by summoning, then your probablly would want to sell it before the new rules come, and after the rules become fully legal it would be much harder to sell. Also true for people with unfinished armies, if they wouldn't worry now, and kept buying stuff they may end up really sad when the rules hit. Specially if the kits are high cost. Buying a stardrake and 6 fulminators, and finding out that those aren't playable in 2-3 months is imo worth worrying now.

 

1 hour ago, Brightstar said:

Even then, it would be more constructive to start debating how to balance this summoning mechanic during games. 

Well the balance can come from three places. Summoning armies should be balanced against each other, an additional balancing factor are the different summoning mechanics. Am assuming armies with weaker units to summon or fewer units to summon, will get more or easier summoning. For armies with no own summoning, the balancing comes from being able to take ally and probablly from lower army cost.

[DanielFM]

This has to have been said already, but:

I think summoning is impossible to balance.

If you don't put an overcost in summonable troops/summoning characters/whole summoning armies, non-summoning armies will feel like playing unfairly handicapped against them.

On the other hand, when given the option of paying points for the summoned troops but gaining a tactical advantage (positioning, safe arrival...) players appear to feel they aren't getting enough value from the rule. Overcosting characters/units would have a similar effect.

What to do, then?

Using in-game resources was a good idea, in principle. But only if said resources have an opportunity cost. If an army gets those points by doing nothing different from what would be expected from them (killing units, casting spells...), it's almost the same as having free summoning. Maggotkin, BoK and Slaanesh feel like that.

Having to use a command ability to summon, for example, has the cost of not allowing a different CA. Even Alarielle must use her healing or the summoning. Those are far better.

Let's hope GW give us more like the latter.

[Chikout]

Just listened to the first episode of the stormcast podcast. There were a couple of little rules tidbits that have not been revealed yet.

If you are within 3 inches of an enemy unit, you may only shoot at that unit.

Predatory spells can be redirected back towards the army that cast them.

It was a fun listen. Wish it was longer. 

They did not talk about summoning.

[Ar-Pharazôn]

16 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Just listened to the first episode of the stormcast podcast. There were a couple of little rules tidbits that have not been revealed yet.

If you are within 3 inches of an enemy unit, you may only shoot at that unit.

Predatory spells can be redirected back towards the army that cast them.

It was a fun listen. Wish it was longer. 

They did not talk about summoning.

The bit where they mentioned how it felt like every army sort of got a battletome equivalent interested me. I'm hopeful they'll add more in and possibly buff existing ones that are lacking. 

[Sheriff]

1 minute ago, Ar-Pharazôn said:

The bit where they mentioned how it felt like every army sort of got a battletome equivalent interested me. I'm hopeful they'll add more in and possibly buff existing ones that are lacking. 

Same. Hopefully it means there will be generic battalions everyone can use, otherwise it seems they are widening the gap between tome and non-tome armies. 

[Xasz]

16 minutes ago, Chikout said:

If you are within 3 inches of an enemy unit, you may only shoot at that unit.

I kinda wished for this and expected it to happen at some point in AoS, good that it is finally confirmed for AoS 2.0.

17 minutes ago, Chikout said:

They did not talk about summoning.

I wonder if they'll make a second summoning post and clear-up some of the biggest concerns.

[CaptainNippon]

24 minutes ago, Chikout said:

 

If you are within 3 inches of an enemy unit, you may only shoot at that unit.

This seems like a good compromise between not being able to shoot out of combat and not making ranged units completely useless once they get engaged.

[Riavan]

I like that change to shooting. I also like the watch out sir rule. Just tones down the ranged attacking, as someone with a non-ranged army, lol.

I have not been checking this thread as often as I should, but the stormcast battletome is currently in "last chance to buy" on the store, so I think we can confirm a new stormcast battletome right? I may have missed them officially doing this.

[Xasz]

16 minutes ago, Riavan said:

I have not been checking this thread as often as I should, but the stormcast battletome is currently in "last chance to buy" on the store, so I think we can confirm a new stormcast battletome right? I may have missed them officially doing this.

Some dark rumour I heard was that they'll release a new chamber every year, accompanied with a new SCE Battletome. (ruination might be next)

Take it with a grain of salt.

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

Just listened to the first episode of the stormcast podcast. There were a couple of little rules tidbits that have not been revealed yet.

If you are within 3 inches of an enemy unit, you may only shoot at that unit.

Predatory spells can be redirected back towards the army that cast them.

It was a fun listen. Wish it was longer. 

They did not talk about summoning.

I wonder if taking control of an enemy spell involves using command points.  I think there are going to be enough ways to use command points that it is going to become an interesting, and crucial, tactical aspect of the game.  I'm looking forward to seeing the whole rather than just some of the parts.

[Lardidar]

Bye bye balewind...yipee!

[Slayerofmen]

3 minutes ago, Lardidar said:

Bye bye balewind...yipee!

What?

[bsharitt]

2 minutes ago, Slayerofmen said:

What?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/26/26th-may-endless-spellsgw-homepage-post-2/

The endless spells will be dispellable and the balewind vortex is getting overhauled to bring it in line with other spells. So it's not going away, but you can  make it go away now.

[Imperial]

3 minutes ago, Slayerofmen said:

What?

Vortex can be unsummoned now ?

[Lardidar]

Sorry thought that one had been out a while, I just read it. Yeah it will still be about but I doubt it will be as 'broken' as now. And you can dispel it...Also thinking of adding a wizard bounty hunter into my freeguild as that sounds ace.

[pseudonyme]

I can’t hardly wait for a full wizards and endless/predatory spells battle report! ?